307 replies to this topic

[Bilbo]

Gierling, on 17 September 2014 - 10:08 AM, said:

Right so your sticking with the "Supposed to be better" line of argument.

No, we are going with the "you don't get a free kill shot" line of argument.

[Destructicus]

Gierling, on 17 September 2014 - 10:08 AM, said:

Right so your sticking with the "Supposed to be better" line of argument.

keep putting words in my mouth, that's fine
You seem determined to miss my point.

[KraftySOT]

And some of these arguments are ridiculous.

NO ONE WANTS RED VS BLUE.

Who cares what one side can do that the other cant. Its called asymmetrical balance. Its standard in the TT.

The problem is nerfing the clan into the IS because the clans are "to powerful" Which is ridiculous. If they were operating under the full rules everything would be fine.

Clan sacrifices customization for power.

[Thorn Hallis]

The Inner Sphere will get light engines at some point, so your proposal might come back at you.

Thats also a reason why PGi should always look at the future when it comes to balancing, otherwise they will have even more work with light and heavy gauss rifles, rotary autocannons and such.

Edited by Thorn Hallis, 17 September 2014 - 10:15 AM.

[KraftySOT]

Destructicus, on 17 September 2014 - 10:11 AM, said:

No, fixed engine ratings is a restriction I accept with my mechs
That leaves less room for customization.
if they did allow us to swap out engines, you people would by whining about how DW's are flying around at 81kph
Not everybody likes XL engines, I have mostly STD engines on all my IS brawlers because I prefer survivability to speed.

I never said "that clans are supposed to be better"
Don't put words in my mouth
They need to be different from IS mechs
What you're proposing is nerfing Clan mechs in a way that would break the game.

Then play IS?

[Destructicus]

KraftySOT, on 17 September 2014 - 10:10 AM, said:

They just havent rolled them out yet.

Sure, lets nerf what's in the game now because of what could eventually be added later?

[Damien Tokala]

They were and never shall be 1vs1 with Innersphere. This is not the lore. Who knows, we might see a time jump, and you can get the same type of tech for your Innersphere buckets

[KraftySOT]

And the idea that anything short of smashing the servers with a hammer is going to break the game, is quite pedestrian.

Destructicus, on 17 September 2014 - 10:13 AM, said:

Sure, lets nerf what's in the game now because of what could eventually be added later?

Its not a nerf. Its a standardization with the correct rules that were laid out almost 30 years ago.

Also, along with this, should come the "DE nerfing" of all your clan weapons.

Theres no reason for it.

Your XLs should turn you into an ineffective pile of goo, but still be alive...you shouldnt have many customization options...but all of your weapons should be more powerful.

Not longer burn times...but actually honest to god more powerful than IS weapons. They make more heat, but you get 2 slot DHS to make up for it.

No IS mech can mount ferro, endo, and alot of weapons and heat sinks. With 3 slots per DHS, the most youll get is one or two with a nice weapons package. There simply arent enough criticals. The Ferro and Endo take up the vast majority of your free space. Throw in an XL and you have a whopping 6 slots to work with.

If you knuckleheads would have played the TT for 20 years like the rest of us...youd know that this stuff balances out PERFECTLY when you just follow the rules.

[Ph30nix]

Just make clan mechs die on torso loss already, thats only thing that will even start to please the anti clan mech people.

then give them light fusions with no penalty though im sure they will see that as balanced

[Gierling]

Destructicus, as a point offering standard engines could be done as a checkbox (so you could choose standard or XL but not size)

Anyhow...

Damien, for the game to surviv the inner sphere mechs need to be 1v1 viable. Otherwise there is no reason to play them. No rational actors would take an inferior mech in the mixed queue (they harm their team by doing so) and CW would only have clan players rolling the IS.

You can't obsolete all the IS content and still have a game.

[Destructicus]

KraftySOT, on 17 September 2014 - 10:16 AM, said:

Its not a nerf. Its a standardization with the correct rules that were laid out almost 30 years ago.

By this logic then yes, they should undo all clan nerfs and strictly adhere to TT and the rules laid out 30 years ago and have clan mechs be truly better than IS mechs in every way.
You can't cherry pick which aspects of TT you want to adhere to when you're making the same argument in your favor.

Edited by Destructicus, 17 September 2014 - 10:19 AM.

[KraftySOT]

And frankly were going to CONSTANTLY be changing the balance around this place over the next year. Thats PGIs plan. This stuff is getting tackled as soon as CW rolls out (which may be never I grant you)

So strap on a helmet bud, because the games about to break repeatedly over the next 6 months.

Destructicus, on 17 September 2014 - 10:18 AM, said:

By this logic then yes, they should undo all clan nerfs and strictly adhere to TT and the rules laid out 30 years ago and have clan mechs be truly better than IS mechs in every way.
You can't cherry pick which aspects of TT you want to adhere to when you're making the same argument in your favor.

YES

Destructicus, on 17 September 2014 - 10:18 AM, said:

By this logic then yes, they should undo all clan nerfs and strictly adhere to TT and the rules laid out 30 years ago and have clan mechs be truly better than IS mechs in every way.
You can't cherry pick which aspects of TT you want to adhere to when you're making the same argument in your favor.

I agree with it so much im double quoting.

I dont want to cherry pick a damned thing. I want to roll back your weapons nerfs.

Edited by KraftySOT, 17 September 2014 - 10:19 AM.

[Ph30nix]

KraftySOT, on 17 September 2014 - 10:17 AM, said:

If you knuckleheads would have played the TT for 20 years like the rest of us...youd know that this stuff balances out PERFECTLY when you just follow the rules.

no it doesnt, you forget that one of the biggest balance factors for TT was the dice roll.

Not saying id ont agree alot of table top things if implemented properly would help solve alot of problems but to say TT would solve everything is naive.

[KraftySOT]

And theyre not actually better in every way...clans have a silly bidding system, honor code, lack of customization, no artillery, almost no lrm boats, no tanks, and not a very large military force.

[Damien Tokala]

I do play Innersphere against clans, because I love the challenge in it. If you can't challenge yourself, how can you ever expect to challenge anyone else?

[Gierling]

Also as a point of clarification, I did not say that the mech should auto shutdown on torso loss. Just that it should get the reduced heat capacity instantly and shut down ONLY IF their current heat is higher the what the mech can handle in its reduced state.

[S13gtastic]

Speed and agility loss along with not being able to run as cool(unless you your other half just does not produce enough heat) is fine on the destruction of a Clan XL side torso.

But pushing for an "and then they also shut down" is a bit much, might as well just be a Inner Sphere XL and kill instantly. If your going to have an instant overheart/shutdown on a torso blowing might as well bring in reactors being able to go critical and go super nova, or manualy be able to to hit the giant red button to start a self destruct.

[KraftySOT]

Ph30nix, on 17 September 2014 - 10:20 AM, said:

no it doesnt, you forget that one of the biggest balance factors for TT was the dice roll.

Not saying id ont agree alot of table top things if implemented properly would help solve alot of problems but to say TT would solve everything is naive.

Not really. The rules constrained, most times, the random nature of dice rolling. Though you still had your head shot in the first turn that knocks out your life support, your pilot falls unconscious, and your mech falls over into level 0 water, drowning the pilot, but thats why we played that stuff.

The game balance, even with the clans, was impeccable.

[Destructicus]

Gierling, on 17 September 2014 - 10:18 AM, said:

You can't obsolete all the IS content and still have a game.

you say this but you proposing we make clan mechs obsolete
IS strength is High alpha FLD.
Victor just got unnerfed
You just want to one shot clan mechs
It's ridiculous
You do realize this would hurt the non problem mechs too right?
But you don't care, because you know, Clans are so op

[KraftySOT]

And generally most IS vs clan TT games ive played, have come up pretty even. Has nothing to do with the dice, and everything to do with the really good system FASA made.

Rifts is about the only gaming system thats better.

Destructicus, on 17 September 2014 - 10:23 AM, said:

you say this but you proposing we make clan mechs obsolete
IS strength is High alpha FLD.
Victor just got unnerfed
You just want to one shot clan mechs
It's ridiculous
You do realize this would hurt the non problem mechs too right?
But you don't care, because you know, Clans are so op

I also think they need to change the pin point accuracy of weapons, so no one is getting one shotted.