307 replies to this topic

[KraftySOT]

Destructicus, on 17 September 2014 - 12:48 PM, said:

Well isn't yours then as well?
You just went on about how it has never been done yadda yadda

The difference is, im saying it can be done, and be good. Youre saying it cant be done and wont be good.

It CAN be done. Thats obvious. Its just a matter of making a video game, which is done every day around the world.

Will it be good?

Thats subjective to the point that you could say it sucks, but it still sold 24 million copies.

I mean I think Britteny Spears sucks. But it sells alot. I wouldnt nessacarily call that success...

But ill tell you one thing. Brittany is never putting out a Black Metal album...shes gonna stick to her core winning concepts.

[Destructicus]

KraftySOT, on 17 September 2014 - 12:46 PM, said:

No it wasnt.

Megamek. Wtf are you talking about?

you told me to point you to the TT based titled that crashed and burned and now that I have you refuse to accept it, which is something you've been doing this entire conversation.
You gone a lot about how I don't see things from your point of view but you refuse to acknowledge anything but what you want to see.

KraftySOT, on 17 September 2014 - 12:50 PM, said:

The difference is, im saying it can be done, and be good. Youre saying it cant be done and wont be good.

It CAN be done. Thats obvious. Its just a matter of making a video game, which is done every day around the world.

Will it be good?

Thats subjective to the point that you could say it sucks, but it still sold 24 million copies.

I mean I think Britteny Spears sucks. But it sells alot. I wouldnt nessacarily call that success...

But ill tell you one thing. Brittany is never putting out a Black Metal album...shes gonna stick to her core winning concepts.

I never said it can't be done lol
You're the one losing your **** because somebody disagrees with you.
I'm just saying it's been discussed and people decide it's not the best direction to take the game.

KraftySOT, on 17 September 2014 - 12:48 PM, said:

http://megamek.info/

vs

http://en.wikipedia....tible_Card_Game

Thats what the difference between Mechwarrior Tactics and the real game was.

What the **** are you smoking? Mechwarrior Tactics was total trash that was based on COLLECTIBLE CARD GAME.

Not Battletech. Youre a ******* troll

and what's the card gamebased off of?

Edited by Destructicus, 17 September 2014 - 12:53 PM.

[KraftySOT]

You just seem completely devoid of understanding of the outside world. How it works and how consumers function.

You seem to the think you can take the IP, make it an "awesome game bro" and it will be successful, people will play, youll have people to kill, and all is well in the world.

Sure thats true.

But its also true that you could get every single person who enjoys the IP, in here playing, and making alot more money.

Youre not attracting ANYONE to this IP who isnt already aware of it.

Its about pleasing the fans and appeasing the fans. Theyre why MWO exists in the first place.

And mark my words, this wll go down JUST LIKE COMIC BOOK MOVIES did.

Greg and Lukey are in their 50s, I doubt theyre going to pick up the sword and get the IP back in their late 60s and make a game...but who knows. Marvel did it.

[Revis Volek]

Destructicus, on 17 September 2014 - 12:42 PM, said:

you admitted the clans were OP in TT
This game isn't about asymmetrical balance
Russ said yeah 10v12 would be ok and all, but they don't want to force the notion that clan mechs are better, if you bring enough IS ones you may stand a chance.
Asymmetrical balance isn't what they're going for.

Please show me where Russ said that.....

He said that 10V12 would not work with their current system. He also stated that he wanted the Clan and IS mechs to be balanced but different. Never said he didn't want IS mechs to be the underdogs. But the problem with that is not many people want to play for the side that is suppose to lose.

[KraftySOT]

Destructicus, on 17 September 2014 - 12:52 PM, said:

you told me to point you to the TT based titled that crashed and burned and now that I have you refuse to accept it, which is something you've been doing this entire conversation.
You gone a lot about how I don't see things from your point of view but you refuse to acknowledge anything but what you want to see.

Until today I didnt think anyone anywhere would say that Mechwarrior Tactics was TT based.

http://static4.games...iler_070913.jpg

Where in the TT are hardpoints and this ****?

And you did, infact, 4 pages ago, say that it cant be done, that there are things that can never be translated from a TT game to a video game.

That is of course a bunch of malarky.

[Sprouticus]

Well the community is universally hating this idea. Which says a LOT. Any time this community agrees this one sidedly your idea is...well...terrible.

[Metus regem]

DarthRevis, on 17 September 2014 - 12:53 PM, said:

Please show me where Russ said that.....

He said that 10V12 would not work with their current system. He also stated that he wanted the Clan and IS mechs to be balanced but different. Never said he didn't want IS mechs to be the underdogs. But the problem with that is not many people want to play for the side that is suppose to lose.

If I could have my Warhammer WHM-6R or D I'd be FedCom in a heart beat, but with out that mech, I'm a bear all the way.

[Sprouticus]

EvilCow, on 17 September 2014 - 09:04 AM, said:

Excessive, clans don't have standard engines as alternative.

1/3 of engine heat sinks loss and 30% speed loss would be plenty sufficient considering half mech is lost in that moment too.

1/4 engine HS loss and 20% IMO.


Or just implement engine crits across the board using TT as a reference.

Edited by Sprouticus, 17 September 2014 - 12:57 PM.

[KraftySOT]

Yeah and some of us....WANT TO BE THE UNDER DOG.

Balance can be achieved in any number of ways that dont mess with the lore, or the TT.

10 v 12.

[wanderer]

If you went 1:1 for tonnage in TT, a Clan 'Mech was better.

That's why tournaments in TT don't balance by tonnage and have a rating system called Battle Value (BV). It's generally a helluva lot more balanced than trying to adjust two entirely different tech systems in a way that supposedly makes one ton in one system roughly equal to one in the other.

(Seriously, MWO needs a tier system, not simply L/M/H/A. It just doesn't work with Clan vs. IS.)

[Postumus]

Joseph Mallan, on 17 September 2014 - 09:05 AM, said:

IF the Omni is hot enough, it should shut down. Say you are riding the heat curve, Take an engine hit...+15% heat Shut down.

ONLY it should not be Clan only. It needs to be game wide.

Big agree. Not including heat penalties in this game was a bad move, and it has lead to all sorts of problems down the road. A lot of the trouble builds in the past (PPC spam, PPC/AC combos, Laser Boating) have relied on being able to consistently push your mech's heat to 80%+, which in BT would have meant serious consequences.

A heat spike when you lose part of your engine to a crit or torso destruction isn't the full heat penalty system, but it is a good place to start.

[Destructicus]

DarthRevis, on 17 September 2014 - 12:53 PM, said:

Please show me where Russ said that.....

He said that 10V12 would not work with their current system. He also stated that he wanted the Clan and IS mechs to be balanced but different. Never said he didn't want IS mechs to be the underdogs. But the problem with that is not many people want to play for the side that is suppose to lose.

It was in the Twitch Townhall
It's on NGNG, broken into 3 parts, I think he said it in part 1
It's 3 hours of content to dig though, I don't feel like doing it but it's there

[Metus regem]

Wanderer I think I mentioned the BV system a few pages back, but good to see someone else mentioned it too.

[KraftySOT]

BV would be the best way to utilize the MM though the BV system needs a tiny over haul (if we keep lasers with burn times) to give a tad more BV to FLD weapons.

wanderer, on 17 September 2014 - 12:57 PM, said:

If you went 1:1 for tonnage in TT, a Clan 'Mech was better.

That's why tournaments in TT don't balance by tonnage and have a rating system called Battle Value (BV). It's generally a helluva lot more balanced than trying to adjust two entirely different tech systems in a way that supposedly makes one ton in one system roughly equal to one in the other.

(Seriously, MWO needs a tier system, not simply L/M/H/A. It just doesn't work with Clan vs. IS.)

Exactly.

TT is one guide.

Tournament play is the other.

Dragon*con just went by...PGI should have been there taking notes.

I was there with my miniatures ffs, a PGI BOOTH would have been freaking nice.

[Destructicus]

KraftySOT, on 17 September 2014 - 12:53 PM, said:

You just seem completely devoid of understanding of the outside world. How it works and how consumers function.

You seem to the think you can take the IP, make it an "awesome game bro" and it will be successful, people will play, youll have people to kill, and all is well in the world.

Sure thats true.

But its also true that you could get every single person who enjoys the IP, in here playing, and making alot more money.

Youre not attracting ANYONE to this IP who isnt already aware of it.

Its about pleasing the fans and appeasing the fans. Theyre why MWO exists in the first place.

If MWO adhered to TT 100% then this game would sink fast, nobody new would ever try it and the money from the small hardcore fans would dry up fast

The small community that follows the Ip is not enough to keep it afloat, if it was it wouldn't have been 10 or so years since the last MW game.

[BlackDeathLegion]

Damien Tokala, on 17 September 2014 - 09:07 AM, said:

Side torso lost, I lose about 50% of my firepower and heat efficiency. Not only that, but I lose maybe 35% of my entire movement function, speed, twist, yaw, etc etc. You then want me to shut down right after I suffer all of this so you can keep shooting the crap out of me? Who would ever bother playing clans then

QQ, at least when you lose a side torso you dont DIE INSTANTLY! lol

[Metus regem]

KraftySOT, on 17 September 2014 - 01:03 PM, said:

BV would be the best way to utilize the MM though the BV system needs a tiny over haul (if we keep lasers with burn times) to give a tad more BV to FLD weapons.

Too true...

My mech of choic is a Timber Wolf Alt. D BV 2351, the closest IS mech is the Fafnir FNR-5 at 2412, the differeanc is the Fafnir is a 100 ton death machine with dual Heavy gauss and ECM....

[KraftySOT]

Destructicus, on 17 September 2014 - 01:04 PM, said:

If MWO adhered to TT 100% then this game would sink fast, nobody new would ever try it and the money from the small hardcore fans would dry up fast

The small community that follows the Ip is not enough to keep it afloat, if it was it wouldn't have been 10 or so years since the last MW game.

Nope. Its the hardcore fans now that spent all the cash that got us here. The same ones that demanded refunds and were banned and involved in the #savemwo movement. Which you said you were a part of.

Infact...when this game was being funded, they said this would be THE battletech mechwarrior.

How we got to a community that is this vitriolic and toxic, is by them (or the publisher) straying for that goal.

If you went more hardcore TT, all those players would be back and spending money.

How many battletech virtual world pod owners are on reddit saying they would come back? 12? 13? Those people have no problem dropping 1,000 dollars. This is the tip of the iceberg.

You will never get people unfamiliar with the IP to come here and spend tons of money. What you want to do is get EVERY SINGLE HARDCORE FAN on board.

Then others will come along for the ride. Just like the comic book movies of the new generation. If you please the grognards, others will come along.

And they avoid things when we say they suck. All the hardcore fans saw the Phantom Menance, then immediately its ticket sales dropped. We told people not to go watch it. They didnt.

Im just agape that this is a shock to you or that you deny it. Cult movies, cult games, theyre cult for a reason. Its because theyre niche.

if you want to be successful doing a niche title, you have to make it please every one of those fans you can. Not draw in new fans. Thats where people fail.

Look at the health of this game right after CB and now. Totally different. As things began to shift away from the original goals, thats when **** hit the fan.

Would you rather have EVERYONE who enjoyed Xmen as a kid watch your movie, or hope that your translation of the comic, attracts those people and people who have never heard of it?

Clearly as history shows. Dedicating yourself to the hardcore fans of niche genre, will please those fans and theyll turn out in droves and support you to the end of the earth...

And theyll bring their friends.

When you ignore these things, you lose many of the diehard fans, and they tell the people who were only interested on a cursory level, not to bother.

[Destructicus]

I could start the "I spent hundreds of dollars" pissing contest with you, I actually was banned, but recently unbanned after an appeal to Russ, I was a strong supporter of #SaveMWO, I actually got it voted on that weeks ATD.

I am a hardcore fan of BT and I still oppose the TT idea
They're not trying to be niche, they're trying to appeal to a broader spectrum of players as well as fans
the easiest way to do that is to pitch the TT notions aside and make a game that appeals to both sides

Edited by Destructicus, 17 September 2014 - 01:17 PM.

[KraftySOT]

And diehard fans, cut your marketing budget in half. Because fans of cult phenomena LOVE their titles. They shove them in the faces of friends family and house hold pets. They buy merch. They adorn the walls with posters.

These are your customers man. These are your loyal customers.

I see you didnt become a founder or buy some insanely large pack of mechs. And since youre already in the game and enjoying it it seems theres nothing they could do to convince you to spend.

Me?

Id love to drop money on this game. Im waiting to drop 30 bucks a month worth of cash on it. The only reason I dont, is because im voting with my dollar. I wont support things that I think suck with my dollar.

When they make a decision I really like. Ill spend. Then hopefully theyll make more of those decisions. Hopefully now IGP is out of the way, this can happen.

I was skeptical when I heard about this years ago, and I didnt buy into the founders program because I KNEW THIS WOULD HAPPEN.

So here we are...again. After multiple games going down the same path to obscurity. I told you so.