8 replies to this topic

[Gyrok]

I have posted these ideas before. However, I think this would strike a nice balance between all the "solutions" out there, and keep nearly everyone with vested interest in ECM happy.

My thoughts:

-ECM Ghost targeting increases lock time to 200% of base time required for locks. This cannot be negated by modules/TCs/Command Console. This mode does not deny indication of position on sensor arrays, and denies information about the target being acquired until the target would be capable of being locked if you have LoS...without LoS your targeting data is not shared.

-ECM has 3 modes: Ghost targeting (basically current disrupt but changed to the above mechanic), Counter (same as current), Personal stealth (current disrupt) for the carrier mech which pertains to the carrier mech only.

-Narc/TAG reduces lock time on ECM equipped targets to normal time. This can work in conjunction with modules to decrease the lock time once ECM is countered by a spotter.

-LRMs can only fire indirect with a spotter.

-LRM angle of approach is a much flatter trajectory across the board (both direct/indirect) and velocity is increased to perhaps 180m/s

-NARC duration is reduced to 10 seconds, and cannot be knocked off.

-NARC/TAG negate the added lock time from ECM reducing the lock time to normal base time.

Edited by Gyrok, 17 September 2014 - 06:16 AM.

[DocBach]

I don't understand how ECM would prohibit spotting for units outside of its effective range. I can share targets with friendly units on in ECM present of other mechs, why wouldn't they be able to share information of an ECM mech?

[Gyrok]

DocBach, on 17 September 2014 - 06:22 AM, said:

I don't understand how ECM would prohibit spotting for units outside of its effective range. I can share targets with friendly units on in ECM present of other mechs, why wouldn't they be able to share information of an ECM mech?

Because indirect fire has NEVER shared target information unless you have a C3 master and a C3 slave. TAG and NARC do not transmit target info either, only that it is actually there with a location for LRMs to lock.

Edited by Gyrok, 17 September 2014 - 06:26 AM.

[DocBach]

That's completely untrue, you can spot for lrms in battletech without any of those systems

Edit - the part about c3 is untrue however I do not believe narc or tag gaining target info makes much sense either

Edited by DocBach, 17 September 2014 - 06:31 AM.

[Gyrok]

Yes, Doc, you can spot for LRMs in TT. You dedicate an entire turn, without moving or firing weapons to spotting. There is no carry over for MWO for something of that sort, except for using exceptionally long indirect fire lock times...and target info beyond mech and location are not relayed under such circumstances...

[DocBach]

Quote

BattleMechs are also not islands unto themselves. They can
share sensor data to some extent, allowing greater sensory
performance than a single ’Mech can achieve. The specialized
equipment of a C3 system takes this to new heights with direct
battlefield applications, but all BattleMechs can at least
receive basic sensory data from a unit mate.

-TechManual pg 39

C3 goes above target sharing and is a complete network that allows units to not only share all sensor data (we only can share whatever is targeted, which goes in hand one of the sub rules that says that a spotter can only spot for one target in LOS).

A spotter can move while spotting, but cannot make attacks without occurring an additional penalty -- there is no penalty currently for firing while a spotter moves, but a spotter has to actively maintain a lock for the entire flight time of the LRM's.

The point is, I'm not sure why sharing information outside of an ECM field would be disrupted even without LOS; ECM is suppose to only disrupt communications into, from, or through the bubble directly. Since a spotting 'Mech outside the bubble who has received sensor information isn't being actively jammed by being inside enemy ECM, why can't he share the information he gets to other friendlies outside the bubble, as long as that friendly isn't inside or on the other side of ECM?

[Gyrok]

DocBach, on 17 September 2014 - 11:53 AM, said:

-TechManual pg 39

C3 goes above target sharing and is a complete network that allows units to not only share all sensor data (we only can share whatever is targeted, which goes in hand one of the sub rules that says that a spotter can only spot for one target in LOS).

A spotter can move while spotting, but cannot make attacks without occurring an additional penalty -- there is no penalty currently for firing while a spotter moves, but a spotter has to actively maintain a lock for the entire flight time of the LRM's.

The point is, I'm not sure why sharing information outside of an ECM field would be disrupted even without LOS; ECM is suppose to only disrupt communications into, from, or through the bubble directly. Since a spotting 'Mech outside the bubble who has received sensor information isn't being actively jammed by being inside enemy ECM, why can't he share the information he gets to other friendlies outside the bubble, as long as that friendly isn't inside or on the other side of ECM?

Because the information is obscured from the targeting mech with LOS, so therefore, it cannot be shared to an indirect team mate.

Edited by Gyrok, 17 September 2014 - 12:04 PM.

[DocBach]

From what I understand, I don't get any target information until I first achieve a lock (which I actually like a lot -- but how would a 'Mech without LRM's get any targeting information?) meaning I have to have visual confirmation on an enemy. The part I'm not understanding is this:

Quote

This mode does not deny indication of position on sensor arrays, and denies information about the target being acquired until the target would be capable of being locked if you have LoS...without LoS your targeting data is not shared.

This is the part that is confusing to me -- so the target spotting has LOS, and achieves the sensor data but he isn't inside of an ECM suite, and he can relay the location of the target and I can even get locks on it, but I have no idea what the target is or the damage condition. But if he targets someone who isn't in ECM, I can get all that information. How is ECM affecting his ability to translate data for just the 'Mechs inside ECM, when the data transmitted isn't in the effective range of the ECM?

Do you get what I'm saying?

Edited by DocBach, 17 September 2014 - 12:16 PM.

[Gyrok]

Ahh, ok, I see what you are trying to clarify now...

So, essentially, ECM interferes with all kinds of comm equipment and sensors in lore and TT. The reason the spotter can see the mech and gain target info is because he is "spotting". The reason it is not relayed to an indirect spotter is because the ECM signal is still jamming comms even though you have gained target info as the spotter.

Hence, only the positional information can be relayed...(effectively, just a red box with a dorito, no mech weight class, and no info).