52 replies to this topic

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

El Bandito, on 17 September 2014 - 09:59 PM, said:

Then theoretically PGI has no fear of being sued if they redesign and rename the mech while keeping the original hardpoints, right?

Probably.

There's some old Stigma attatched to those Macross inspired Reseen sadly.

Which sucks, because the Archer, Marauder, and Warhammer [especially the Warhammer] are favorites of mine.

[Elizander]

Our heavy mech queue is getting too heavy!

[1453 R]

Flash Frame, on 17 September 2014 - 09:24 PM, said:

The sad part is, is that we have art for these mechs once they became Reseen. Meaning we have art for all the HG mechs that HG cannot touch.

BUT, PGI has said there's "not enough interest" in the reseen designs.

Worse still, there are SOME mechs in MWO right now, that I can proxy to get the mechs I want, like Proxying a CTF 3D into a standard Marauder... [2ppc 2mlas 1AC5] And you know what, in the right situation, that mech wrecks people.

But it's not the same... it's not a marauder... an I'd be 100% happy with reworked, reseen designs of these mechs. You have offical, useable art assets for the Reseen, why do you keep avoiding them PGI...

Harmony Gold is extremely aggressive with these particular copyrights. Russ/Piranha have explained before that while the other companies involved with the old Unseen debacle are willing to deal straight and up-front (since nobody has a clue what their shows are anymore anyways), Harmony Gold can, has, and mostly likely will pull the legal equivalent of shooting first and asking questions never if Piranha, or any other company, starts so much as sniffing around the Reseen variants of those designs. Which, as I recall from some research before, are still under contention, if in a more grey manner than a black one. recall that HG has had plenty of trouble with BattleTech over the years and has, I believe, gone on record as saying they wouldn't mind the least little bit if the entire property went up in flames so people'd stop bothering them over their Macross copyrights.

Or, TL;DR: Harmony Gold is a bunch of fisking scheissholes who hate BattleTech and by extension you. No Reseens for jOO, go buy a Macross box set instead.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

1453 R, on 17 September 2014 - 10:07 PM, said:

Harmony Gold is extremely aggressive with these particular copyrights. Russ/Piranha have explained before that while the other companies involved with the old Unseen debacle are willing to deal straight and up-front (since nobody has a clue what their shows are anymore anyways), Harmony Gold can, has, and mostly likely will pull the legal equivalent of shooting first and asking questions never if Piranha, or any other company, starts so much as sniffing around the Reseen variants of those designs. Which, as I recall from some research before, are still under contention, if in a more grey manner than a black one. recall that HG has had plenty of trouble with BattleTech over the years and has, I believe, gone on record as saying they wouldn't mind the least little bit if the entire property went up in flames so people'd stop bothering them over their Macross copyrights.

Or, TL;DR: Harmony Gold is a bunch of fisking scheissholes who hate BattleTech and by extension you. No Reseens for jOO, go buy a Macross box set instead.

That gives me a sad... a really big one... like, several mechs in size... like all the Macross mechs in size.

T_T

on a serious note.

The Reseen versions actively cannot be under contention as they are still in print. and have been for SEVERAL years now.

I do agree, HG is nothing but a bunch of copywrite trolls who want control of something that they have no actual rights to.

What needs to happen, is the Battletech Community as a whole, needs to band together. CBT and Videogamers alike, and petition that those court documents be opened so we can understand the full limits of what can, and cannot be touched.

Edited by Flash Frame, 17 September 2014 - 10:11 PM.

[Firemage]

Griggio, on 17 September 2014 - 09:45 PM, said:

Part of the problem is that the details of the settlement were sealed and confidential under the agreement between FASA and HG, so for most new companies who took on the Mechwarrior / Battletech it was just easier to steer clear of the "Unseen" all together or risk violating the terms of a decades old settlement, which no one knows the rules in said settlement, except the people who are not allowed to talk about it.

Good ole American copyright law at it's finest.

EDIT: At least their crappy Kickstart campaign failed miserably

I do find it funny that the Japanese right's holder won't even talk to HG anymore. But due to how poorly writen the contracts where in the 80s we can't just go talk to Studio Nue / Satelight for the rights. Nor are any domestic (US/CA) companies willing to fight the fight in court to liberate the macross license from HG even with a japanese court ruling that could help them do it.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

It's insane that this court case from like, 94 is holding up assets in a game 20 years later... it's just, insane.

[Griggio]

El Bandito, on 17 September 2014 - 09:59 PM, said:

Then theoretically PGI has no fear of being sued if they redesign and rename the mech while keeping the original hardpoints, right?

In theory yes, but back to my first post, no one knows where exactly the line is drawn as far as the original settlement goes due to all the details being locked up as part of the agreement. I know when Smith and Tinkerer tried to bring the unseen back to TT they got slapped by a mysterious un-named company and it was immediately pulled again.

This was a pretty good run down on the the US side of things that was written in a blog back in 2009 so you can see how confusing the whole situation is:

http://www.terrania....ech-second.html

You can really see why no one has touched the Unseen in so long. To even try to bring them back would be almost like walking into huge legal trap.

[Iyica de Tylmarande]

If Macross is 1982, wouldn't US copyright have expired in 2010? Unless they renewed for another 28 years...

[Griggio]

Iyica de Tylmarande, on 18 September 2014 - 12:14 AM, said:

If Macross is 1982, wouldn't US copyright have expired in 2010? Unless they renewed for another 28 years...

In late 90's and early 2000's they filed trademarks on anything you could think of that was Macross related. I mean HG really took everything and said mine. It's a pretty safe bet they've kept those copyrights updated while they sit on the IP and let it rot.

[Duncan Jr Fischer]

Flash Frame, on 17 September 2014 - 09:24 PM, said:

The sad part is, is that we have art for these mechs once they became Reseen.

The really sad part is the art for the Reseen. It's god-awful and resembles the Unseen just as much as a scrambled egg resembles a hen.

I would enjoy the redesigns made for Japanese version of Battletech, but they are too different stylistically to classic BT. But Maybe Alex Flyingdebris could adapt some of them back...)))

Edited by Duncan Jr Fischer, 18 September 2014 - 02:17 AM.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Duncan Jr Fischer, on 18 September 2014 - 02:03 AM, said:

The really sad part is the art for the Reseen. It's god-awful and resembles the Unseen just as much as a scrambled egg resembles a hen.

I would enjoy the redesigns made for Japanese version of Battletech, but they are too different stylistically to classic BT. But Maybe Alex Flyingdebris could adapt some of them back...)))

Eh, the Reseen designs arn't terrible. They're not good, but they would be a decent springboard jumping off point for redesigning MWO versions.

[Joseph Mallan]

El Bandito, on 17 September 2014 - 06:37 PM, said:

The Hellbringer is clearly a mech that closely resembles the Warhammer, yet HG is fine with it due to enough difference in design and designation. So that got me thinking, can PGI perhaps introduce the Warhammer to MWO in the future with different look, name, and back story? (perhaps as an IS design influenced by the invading Clan Hellbies?) Cause those hardpoints are the sexiest I have seen in an IS heavy so far.







Or you can just release the Hammerhands but its hardpoints are less sexy.

What do you mean???

that there is sexy!

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 18 September 2014 - 02:38 AM.

[CycKath]

The fact the Hammerhands is carrying AC/10s in those arms probably

[El Bandito]

Joseph Mallan, on 18 September 2014 - 02:34 AM, said:

What do you mean???

that there is sexy!

Warhammer -- 6 energy, 1 missile, and 2 ballistics.

Hammerhands -- 2 energy, 1 missile, and 2 ballistics.

That's my point.

Edited by El Bandito, 18 September 2014 - 02:43 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

El Bandito, on 18 September 2014 - 02:42 AM, said:

Warhammer -- 6 energy, 1 missile, and 2 ballistics.

Hammerhands -- 2 energy, 1 missile, and 2 ballistics.

That's my point.

And PGI cannot add the 2-4 extra Energy?

[Joseph Mallan]

CycKath, on 18 September 2014 - 02:35 AM, said:

The fact the Hammerhands is carrying AC/10s in those arms probably

PPCs

AC10


Its just a matter of taste!

[El Bandito]

Joseph Mallan, on 18 September 2014 - 02:44 AM, said:

And PGI cannot add the 2-4 extra Energy?

I do not mind that they do it, but have they ever done so before? Canon TT weight/crit and all that.

Edited by El Bandito, 18 September 2014 - 02:50 AM.

[Griggio]

You bring up a really good point that has gotten me thinking. Even though there's more then enough mechs in Battletech why couldn't we contribute back to the BT community as a whole with a whole "Spirit of the Unseen" type dealeo.

Design a mech around the internals of the originals, fresh chassis, tweak the name, and keeping with the design philosophy and history of the originals. Heck maybe we could even convince them to re add these spiritual successors to an updated TRO. And even one day MW:O

I'm sure the idea has been kicked around since the HG legal fiasco, and I'm very sure there are purists around who would only accept the original models but it would be nice to pay tribute to them at the least.

[Joseph Mallan]

El Bandito, on 18 September 2014 - 02:49 AM, said:

I do not mind that they do it, but have they ever done so before? Canon TT weight/crit and all that.

Weight Crit Yes, Hard Points... Not even in the rules!

[Blakkstar]

The original designs are not coming back. Catalyst (the owners of Battletech TT) stated in 2009 that they made a new effort to negotiate for the rights and were turned down by HG. While the Mechs still exist in canon and tech readouts, they no longer appear in the TT boxed set, nor are they referred to in any new fiction or rulebooks. Not retconned, but basically confined to the annals of history.

There are alternate designs for the original unseen, however it's questionable if including them would satisfy anybody. It doesn't matter once you're in the cockpit, but this is the "Marauder". Obviously and intentionally, none of the redesigns bear much resemblance to the originals.