44 replies to this topic

[TyphonCh]

Basically a poor mans Atlas. If the ECM variant ever comes out (which it might. The new clan package has an ecm heavy ) I'll definitely start playing them again. As of now it's mediocre. 6/10

Edited by Team Chevy86, 21 September 2014 - 07:20 PM.

[Zordicron]

Russ says all IS mechs get quirks soon.

What do you guys think for quirks in this mech? It really doesnt fail at anything, but it isnt awesome at anything either.

toughness? Does it need some % reduction in dmg value like the Awesome got for ST or somthing? Does it run hot? i am sure Russ would like to hear some opinions from seasoned players of this mostly under the radar mech.

[Tiamat of the Sea]

That's a good question. The Orion's not quite as middle-of-the-road as the Thud, but it doesn't really stand out in any major ways.

Perhaps individualized quirks for the variants? As things stand, they're best for rather different purposes from each other, despite having very similar hardpoints. Something emphasizing or rewarding their use for those purposes might be nice.

[Escef]

Eldagore, on 22 September 2014 - 09:05 PM, said:

Russ says all IS mechs get quirks soon.

What do you guys think for quirks in this mech? It really doesnt fail at anything, but it isnt awesome at anything either.

toughness? Does it need some % reduction in dmg value like the Awesome got for ST or somthing? Does it run hot? i am sure Russ would like to hear some opinions from seasoned players of this mostly under the radar mech.

Given that it was General Kerensky's command mech of choice, I think nice quirks would be extended sensor ranges and faster target info gathering. The better for getting your own LRM locks if you need to and knowing where to plant an AC20 round.

[Zordicron]

So after playing the M and VA and the Protector, I have to say, that left torso is a bullet magnet, flag waving "over here, shoot this thing!" with that pointy bit that sits kinda high. Tends to get pegged even when i try to twist to cover it.

So anyway, my XL350 adventures in the thing make me feel this way(also ran 300 STD brawler in Protector for quite few matches):

Orion should get some side torso buffs for dmg reduction, to allow XL to fit better. In a game with zippy fast Clan heavy mechs, and IS heavy mechs that share the top tonnage spots(Orion, Phract) being really quite stodgy with std. engines, IMO the Orion especially, with the Phract right there also but not quite as much so, need to be able to survive an XL engine loadout a bit better to balance teams some.

i had some really good games in the thing, but also some really short gank ones because the bullet flag caught too many slugs early on. In order for IS to have something to at least be in the ballpark of a TBR or even a Summoner seed and power wise, I think the Orion should see some buffs to allow that XL to work especially well. This allows the Orion to move out pretty quickly, and turn better, and carry enough firepower to compete with the clan counterparts.

As it is, I find myself playing it like an Awesome more, where you have to play second line, or emergency front line, or you get womped in short order. the Orion is simply too big to go under the radar, even standng next to an Atlas, which means you either need to be fast, or really powerful at return fire to survive. fast is easier IMO to allow through quirks and game balance. i dont think anyone would cry foul over letting an Orion move at 80 KPH with less drawbacks then it currently has.

Because it FEELS like it could compete and be that "brawl response" mech to combat the mobility of TBR or SMN, especially compared to the other IS heavy we have. Most IS heavy just have too obvious of a draw back to exploit by clna weapons, be it CT on a pult, or ST on a jager, lack of mobility on the Phracts. Dragons and Quickdraws, well i dont see how a 60 ton IS mech should be the response to a 75 ton clanner.

As it is, the Victor is better suited, and thats an assault, which IMO doesnt fit too well- we will need something to combat the incoming Man-O-war and it's speedy self also.

thoughts? Should Russ buff ST of Orion to allow better XL survivability to balance it vs TBR's?

[Tiamat of the Sea]

The Orion has never felt to me like an XL-brawler 'mech. Its weapon hardpoints scream 'smaller Atlas' too hard for that to really feel like an optimal choice, to say nothing of the jutting left shoulder and relatively small upper arms.

I would say that for an agile 70/75 Heavy, it would make a lot more sense to add the Grasshopper to the list of 'mechs and make that XL-friendly- it's known for being a highly mobile Heavy 'mech to begin with and all GHRs mount jump jets to boot (which is part of why it has that reputation). Additionally, with a mostly energy loadout in any variant, the Grasshopper would be a better fit there as well, since using large engines- even XL variants- tends to eat tonnage and make lots of space for engine-mount heat sinks.

Mind, the GHR has the same base speeds as the ON1, CTF, and TDR anyways.

That can mostly be attributed to the equipment and material weights used in older Inner Sphere 'mechs. Without a very different sort of overall design philosophy than older Inner Sphere models use, XL engines are just not really designed for in pre-TRO3055 Inner Sphere heavies. Even those that do tote XLs nearly all just use them to carry additional weapon weight, rather than improve agility and speed. The only standout exceptions are the Grand Dragon (5K Dragon) and the OTL-5M Ostsol (which is not likely to show up). It's not until 3055 that high-end heavies that are actually designed to be fast really make it out on the field for the Inner Sphere. Of course, when they do, there are suddenly a bunch of them- the Daikyu, Hercules, Thunder, Falconer, and the Timber-Wolf-mirror Rakshasa.

Keep in mind that with the upcoming change to Clan XL toting 'mechs that will cripple their heat dissipation when a side torso is lost, Timber Wolves won't have quite the same advantage at that point as they do now. It'll probably be a bit before that fully settles in to an appropriate balance point, though.

Anyways, the Orion isn't shaped or designed for the same role as the Timber Wolf (particularly not when looking at hardpoint locations) and a buff to make it competitive at the same things really doesn't seem in order. It's a lot like comparing, say, a Wolverine to a Nova- they're not really shaped the same, and even the one WVR with all the energy hardpoints in its right hand doesn't have the same role on the battlefield that the Nova does.

I think it would be better to look at giving the Orion quirks that let it fill the roles that it is better at, rather than trying to make it compete directly with the Timber Wolf.


Given the Orion's physical design, quirks to increase arm motion range- particularly vertically- wouldn't seem too far out of line, and possibly something to improve performance (heat, firing rate, range) on whatever the particular model has more of- missiles on the VA, energy on the K, ballistics on the V. Maybe the VA could instead have a missile lock-on time reduction or something, and then give missile refire to the M.

Edited by Quickdraw Crobat, 01 October 2014 - 09:28 PM.

[Karl Marlow]

The Orion is a really good mech. Just don't put an XL engine in it and it will serve you well.

[Shell Game]

Team Chevy86, on 21 September 2014 - 07:19 PM, said:

Basically a poor mans Atlas. If the ECM variant ever comes out (which it might. The new clan package has an ecm heavy ) I'll definitely start playing them again. As of now it's mediocre. 6/10

A poor man's atlas it is! I use the P, M, and KFC) variant

[Kmieciu]

Team Chevy86, on 21 September 2014 - 07:19 PM, said:

Basically a poor mans Atlas.

Atlas had the redeeming feature of being the heaviest mech in the game. That made it useful, despite the poor hardpoints and size. But not anymore.

The same thing with Orion. Once upon a time it was the heaviest mech in its class. Now we have the Timber Wolf, that is faster, more agile, has jump jets, smaller size, better hitboxes and more weapon hardpoints.

I can think of any reason to use it anymore.

[Arete]

1. Take Orion V or VA
2. Put AC20 in RT then jam as many ASRM6 into it as you can. Put in as much ammo as you feel you can use.
3. Use a prybar to fit the heaviest STD engine you can in there
4. Brawl
5. ?????????????
6. Profit

[Roachbugg]

Ah yes the orion the poor mans atlas... It runs a lot like one too just faster. its not the best IS heavy but it is a fun one to play around with,

[LordMelvin]

I have a protector that I use for just that: Protecting. I've got 2x ML, ERPPC, AC20 and an SRM 4 w/ Artemis. I linger around assaults and sniper heavies and pick off flanking mediums and lights. It's always funny when a Jenner or Cicada rolls up point blank and a single alpha rips off a torso or a leg. I've also had more lucky headshots in this mech than any other.

I'd never roll into a brawl with it (runs way to hot) but it make a great counter-flanker.

[0rionsbane]

I personally love my orion, in general its game play is support fire.
For my protector i use 2 erll 1 guass and a lrm 15/5 (saves a ton) with a xl 300. its for pure support fire and can decimate any snipers/hill peekers by both making the retreat from you missiles and doing 35 damage to their face.
For the VA i ran it as a mixed missile boat, 2 Lrm 15 2 srm 6, and 2 erll xl 300, this build dose well at any range and has great sustained damage from missiles, and can do a 76.8 point alpha on any unfortunate target between 240 and 180 range. Its the strongest orion build i have used and got me in the top 50 last tourney.
For the K i like the hunter build 4xll std 300, but i ran out of erll using them in my other builds so i went 2 erll and 2 ppc, allowing me to alpha with no ghost heat but with a higher heat scale to manage.

The mechs you have trouble with are the sniping mechs, and the hill peeking mechs. I find brawlers/sustained damage are not that hard to deal with as long as your torso twist and keep your speed up. Lrms are a decent counter to both, and having some high damage direct fire is a nice backup.

[UrsusMorologus]

Eh, I run an XL300, but I use my Orion as mid-range attack and try to avoid extended brawling. The arms will protect the ST nicely if you keep some distance and use some common tactics. Let the hill-humpers do fire-support since thats all they are good for anyway, and let the Atlas be the close brawler, the Orion is for moving the line forward with a mixed loadout that lets you put overwhelming firepower on any target.

[Kes Moreau]

Have any of the Devs addressed the arrival or potential arrival of IIC variants for Clan?

[Tiamat of the Sea]

Not that I recall, but we wouldn't be likely to see those for five years regardless.

Edited by Quickdraw Crobat, 09 October 2014 - 01:45 PM.

[IraqiWalker]

Kes Moreau, on 08 October 2014 - 11:26 AM, said:

Have any of the Devs addressed the arrival or potential arrival of IIC variants for Clan?

They have (townhall meeting 1)

IIC variants and second line mechs will not be introduced into the game at the moment. (Personal opinion follows). It seems that they will go through all the front line mechs, THEN they will get to the second line ones, and probably after they run out of all mechs, they'll probably introduce the IICs. Why waste the time introducing mechs we already have, when they can get new mechs in.

[STEF_]

I must officially thank Quickdraw, Ursus, and more, for typing these kinds of guide to Orion. My ancestor's mech...

With the whortly adversaries weekend I got enough C-bills to buy 3 and..... surprise... they have INSANE k/d ratio

Maybe I'm wrong or maybe it just suits to me.
ORION ON1-V match played 14 win 13 lost 1 ; kill 15 death 4 ratio 3.75


edit:
from today, and still don't understand why it's so deadly

Edited by Stefka Kerensky, 12 October 2014 - 01:06 AM.

[STEF_]

Stefka Kerensky, on 11 October 2014 - 02:54 AM, said:

I must officially thank Quickdraw, Ursus, and more, for typing these kinds of guide to Orion. My ancestor's mech...

With the whortly adversaries weekend I got enough C-bills to buy 3 and..... surprise... they have INSANE k/d ratio

Maybe I'm wrong or maybe it just suits to me.
ORION ON1-V match played 14 win 13 lost 1 ; kill 15 death 4 ratio 3.75


edit:
from today, and still don't understand why it's so deadly

If someone is interest in, this is my ONI-V build.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...80d6e82b0690c35

[Escef]

Stefka Kerensky, on 12 October 2014 - 01:13 AM, said:

If someone is interest in, this is my ONI-V build.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...80d6e82b0690c35

A little light in the ammo department. If you break the LRM up into 3xLRM5 you save a ton. That can net you either more ammo or a 330XL if you are happy with the ammo counts. Or even another heat sink. The multiple 5 packs will cycle faster than the 15, so you might find your LRM bins going empty sooner.