805 replies to this topic

[Belorion]

Damien Tokala, on 28 September 2014 - 02:33 PM, said:

Harmony gold carries no weight with the unseen design, and as for the name, thats like you suing my child for being named "russ", it's bullshit. i've followed this case for a long time, and i might have more legal documents that may be of assistance to you.

Its not the name its the look. Although if you lop the ears off a mad cat you have a maurader almost. Just add in the AC on top.

I have no doubt the FD could make them different enough that PGI would win in court. Sometimes winning in court is just as bad as losing.

[Damien Tokala]

http://alex.kaempen....ld_v._fasa.html

http://caselaw.findl...it/1316704.html

http://www.terrania....ech-second.html

http://www.animehera...case-dismissed/

i'm also searching for a few others, give me time

[Belorion]

Damien Tokala, on 28 September 2014 - 02:55 PM, said:

http://alex.kaempen....ld_v._fasa.html

http://caselaw.findl...it/1316704.html

http://www.terrania....ech-second.html

http://www.animehera...case-dismissed/

i'm also searching for a few others, give me time

It was dismissed due to a sealed settlement between FASA and HG. All the companies that get their license from FASA are still beholden to the terms of that settlement.

About the only way they can do this is if they get permission to do it.

[Wintersdark]

Damien Tokala, on 28 September 2014 - 02:33 PM, said:

Harmony gold carries no weight with the unseen design, and as for the name, thats like you suing my child for being named "russ", it's bullshit. i've followed this case for a long time, and i might have more legal documents that may be of assistance to you.

Unfortunately, IP law is very, very messy. It doesn't matter if PGI is in the right or not, nor does it matter if they can - or even will - win. What matters is if it's financially viable to get into that lawsuit.

Given PGI is small, with limited resources, and HG could bury them in legal costs.

Edited by Wintersdark, 28 September 2014 - 03:13 PM.

[Kavoh]

The IS definitely need some more updated chassis to come out. I think it would be a cool thing for the diehard IS fans to get some new toys while leaving the old programs as they were. I feel that idea is a great one as I couldn't imagine having to buy IS mechs to get a clan mech, so I can understand their frustration.

[Damien Tokala]

Wintersdark, on 28 September 2014 - 03:12 PM, said:

Unfortunately, IP law is very, very messy. It doesn't matter if PGI is in the right or not, nor does it matter if they can - or even will - win. What matters is if it's financially viable to get into that lawsuit.

Given PGI is small, with limited resources, and HG could bury them in legal costs.

given all the money they've made from clan sales, heros and more, i can safely say they've got enough money to bury HG

[Belorion]

Actually, the ones I really want to see are possibly much easier to redesign than the ones asked for most often. Everyone seems to want the Warhammer, Marauder, or the Rifleman...

My favorites were always the Stinger, Wasp, Valkyrie, Crusader and the Archer. Except for the Archer, the others may actually be the easiest unseen to make into reseen that still have the original spirit, but look sufficiently different.

They could start off with trying to get an intro pack approved with:

Wasp
Phoenix Hawk
Crusader
Longbow

Maybe a little dagger expansion on that or something with the Stinger and Valkyrie.

[Wintersdark]

Damien Tokala, on 28 September 2014 - 03:21 PM, said:

given all the money they've made from clan sales, heros and more, i can safely say they've got enough money to bury HG

I think you grossly underestimate the costs of such a lawsuit and overestimate PGI's financial situation (while I think they're doing well, I can't really imagine that they've got millions kicking around in cash), but lets say you're right.

So they spend every penny they have, and earn the rights to sell Unseen mechs. That's basically Pheonix Pack 2.0. Do you think that'll sell more than everything they've made from clan sales, heroes and more? Enough to make back the millions that legal battle would cost and provide a profit on top of that?

At the risk that - because IP law is messy - no matter how air-tight their case is, there is always the possibility that they'd lose the case. If they did, they'd be backrupt instantly, MWO would cease to exist overnight, and they'd be out of a job.

They'd be freaking idiots to take that risk.

But the above isn't even the worst of it.

Lets assume that everything above works out. They can invest the money into the lawsuit, and they will inevitably win that lawsuit.

The problem is, those legal costs are consumed very rapidly... But the payoff from selling Phoenix Pack 2.0? That could take years, because HG would drag that lawsuit out as long as possible... then appeals... then more appeals.

All that funding would be wrapped up in legal costs and unavailable, so PGI would be faced with being unable to keep the servers lit and pay for their staff and resources (these costs are very significant). MWO dies, then they win. Yay! =/


People seem to think that all these companies are stupid for not pursuing lawsuits with HG, when they're sure they'll win. This is why.

It doesn't matter if you can win, if you're in the right, it only matters if you can afford to have a vast amount of money eaten, with no chance of earning money from the IP you eventually gain for likely years.

This is why IP law sucks so bad, and why so many large companies can maintain control of IP that they shouldn't even have control over. All they need is a wad of cash and threat of ruinously expensive, long lawsuits.

[Belorion]

If they can get them to sign off on some stuff though, it will be 'shut up and take my money' kind of a thing...

[ShadowbaneX]

Belorion, on 28 September 2014 - 03:27 PM, said:

Actually, the ones I really want to see are possibly much easier to redesign than the ones asked for most often. Everyone seems to want the Warhammer, Marauder, or the Rifleman...

My favorites were always the Stinger, Wasp, Valkyrie, Crusader and the Archer. Except for the Archer, the others may actually be the easiest unseen to make into reseen that still have the original spirit, but look sufficiently different.

You're right, most people would much rather have the Marauder, Warhammer, Rifleman & Archer, which means that if PGI actually does want to sell any packages they'd put those in and not the Crusader. Then again if they did do a package that was the Valkyrie, Phoenix Hawk, Crusader & the Longbow, I'd just get the tier 2 package for the Phoenix Hawk, and then grab a Sabre pack for the Marader and whichever mech came with it, utterly ignoring the Crusader and the Longbow...and you know what? I think a bunch of other people would as well.

It's might be easier (for some definition of easier) to use some other mechs, like the Crusader, but they're not going to sell anywhere near as well as the other mentioned heavies in the Macross Unseen. Granted, it probably would do better than the Ostroc & Ostsol.

[Eximar]

Damien Tokala, on 28 September 2014 - 02:33 PM, said:

Harmony gold carries no weight with the unseen design, and as for the name, thats like you suing my child for being named "russ", it's bullshit. i've followed this case for a long time, and i might have more legal documents that may be of assistance to you.

Damien Tokala, on 28 September 2014 - 03:21 PM, said:

given all the money they've made from clan sales, heros and more, i can safely say they've got enough money to bury HG

You Sir, are terribly misinformed.

[Iron Riding Cowboy]

Wintersdark, on 28 September 2014 - 03:38 PM, said:

I think you grossly underestimate the costs of such a lawsuit and overestimate PGI's financial situation (while I think they're doing well, I can't really imagine that they've got millions kicking around in cash), but lets say you're right.

So they spend every penny they have, and earn the rights to sell Unseen mechs. That's basically Pheonix Pack 2.0. Do you think that'll sell more than everything they've made from clan sales, heroes and more? Enough to make back the millions that legal battle would cost and provide a profit on top of that?

At the risk that - because IP law is messy - no matter how air-tight their case is, there is always the possibility that they'd lose the case. If they did, they'd be backrupt instantly, MWO would cease to exist overnight, and they'd be out of a job.

They'd be freaking idiots to take that risk.

But the above isn't even the worst of it.

Lets assume that everything above works out. They can invest the money into the lawsuit, and they will inevitably win that lawsuit.

The problem is, those legal costs are consumed very rapidly... But the payoff from selling Phoenix Pack 2.0? That could take years, because HG would drag that lawsuit out as long as possible... then appeals... then more appeals.

All that funding would be wrapped up in legal costs and unavailable, so PGI would be faced with being unable to keep the servers lit and pay for their staff and resources (these costs are very significant). MWO dies, then they win. Yay! =/


People seem to think that all these companies are stupid for not pursuing lawsuits with HG, when they're sure they'll win. This is why.

It doesn't matter if you can win, if you're in the right, it only matters if you can afford to have a vast amount of money eaten, with no chance of earning money from the IP you eventually gain for likely years.

This is why IP law sucks so bad, and why so many large companies can maintain control of IP that they shouldn't even have control over. All they need is a wad of cash and threat of ruinously expensive, long lawsuits.

we can make new mechs using the same hard points with new names . Thank about a 75 ton king crab having the same hard points as the Marauder give it a name like the Mad craber or bad crab i mean why not? there is a medium crab why not a heavy? as for the rifleman we have the jegermech. The warhammer? how about just giving us a IS loki? call it the prototype Loki or something with the same hard points as the warhammer ?

Edited by Iron Riding Cowboy, 28 September 2014 - 09:50 PM.

[Dirty Old Man]

Everyone in life had made a lot of decisions.... I and a lot of others who believe in MWO way before it was even born in closed beta put down our dollar when the campaign ran for more than half a year.... then when the second campaign came it also ran for quite a long ways... the point is we "the KC rewarded" did all that WITHOUT any incentives other then the ones the campaigns had... it was not pre meditated and pre knowledge 2 years ago what we are entitled to... hack we dont even know if there was any chance for any anniversary rewards.

BUT we paid them, and we played them for 2 years, contributed both in money and time from our real lifes to this franchise willingly and without any kind of reward besides the ones in game and out of game sharing the remarkable experiences with friends or family.

I think PGI made the right call not to ...."cant find a nice word".. "Abstain from pressure of Betray" the contributions of the Founders... I know we dont talk much but we do what we do with all of our free will..

Thank you PGI... you can count me in if you got more campaigns to promote to us 2 yearers... it would be our pleasure to see it through ...

Edited by Dirty Old Man, 28 September 2014 - 09:59 PM.

[ReconTheWelshie]

Great idea! I fully support this and would gladly throw my money at you!

[Iyica de Tylmarande]

As long as the IS medium isn't another generic looking humanoid walker I'm happy. Give me the 50 ton crab or some other chicken walker and I'm happy. So far we have 10 IS mediums and only the Cicada is a chicken walker... BORING!

[Damien Tokala]

Iyica de Tylmarande, on 29 September 2014 - 04:47 AM, said:

As long as the IS medium isn't another generic looking humanoid walker I'm happy. Give me the 50 ton crab or some other chicken walker and I'm happy. So far we have 10 IS mediums and only the Cicada is a chicken walker... BORING!

umm...... cataphract, catapult, raven, locust, stalker

[dwwolf]

Russ Bullock, on 18 September 2014 - 09:38 PM, said:

lol - I can take another stab at HG but probably not

Shimmeringswords version/ used in trade products for a few years now / is both very different and a good match for MWO
Also ask them if they really want to test their now shaky claim to the robotech franchise(japanese court case ).
A decent license would be nice.

Edited by dwwolf, 29 September 2014 - 01:54 PM.

[Mikros04]

mindwarp, on 18 September 2014 - 08:26 PM, said:

I'm a founder and a phoenix overlord, and an IS purist. I didn't buy the clan packs, not because I didn't think they were worth it or because I didn't want to support the game, but because I didn't want any clan mechs. So I'm sympathetic towards other IS purists who want the KGC and don't want to buy any clan mechs. Although it doesn't really bother me about phoenix coming back, I can definitely see why others think it shouldn't. And if it did, they definitely shouldn't get the badges. A new $80 mech pack with 4 mechs and their variants just like phoenix would get my money instantly. The phoenix pack felt like the best money I spent on MWO. If the Vulture stays exclusive, the KCG should as well.

Agreed 100% with every thought expressed here.

I came to MWO too late for founders, but I did purchase the Phoenix Overlord pack and would instantly jump on another, similar, package deal. I think this is a great idea Russ.

[Alek Ituin]

I really do hope that PGI don't make the reward KGC a Hero or Champion.

Does it suck to get left out of a reward program? Yes.
Should you be able to get said reward by doing none of the things originally required to become eligible? No.

Having bought every top-tier package released for this game, I feel that myself and others like me are entitled to a unique and exclusive reward for supporting the game with large amounts of money. It's like earning the M60 in WoT for being in one of the best clans, and then having Wargaming put the M60 up for sale as a regular premium. Your tank loses all uniqueness and exclusivity in that moment and becomes just another premium.

Same goes for the KGC. It should be a reward available exclusively to those who have bought a top-tier package, and ONLY those who have bought a top-tier package.

[Jon Gotham]

Alek Ituin, on 29 September 2014 - 01:54 PM, said:

I feel that myself and others like me are entitled to a unique and exclusive reward for supporting the game with large amounts of money.

Interesting attitude you have there.
What about all the people who have spent MORE than you in MC and premium time? Many of those people have supported the game way more than you have. What do they get? Being as they have spent more than you?
I bought masakari+clan wave 2 pack-do I feel entitled to be special?
NO.
Why do you?
Radical idea here guys, shoot me down if you will but I'm gonna say something that's utterly INSANE.
You are not special because you spent some money.
You are not special because you have more money than the next guy/girl.
You are not special because you played MWO before someone else.
You could try showing a little empathy, and overlook the "principle" of entitlement this time-to show a smidgeon of compassion for your fellow players. Let those other PEOPLE who are much like you, have a chance at the KC by buying an Is pack. Not having to waste money on things they don't want.
I'll refer you back to point #1: You are not special because you spent some money.
You could be special if you excercise some compassion for your fellow MWOers who might have missed out.


Sorry if the above was hammy and over emotional, but this whole "special" thing is just sad. It's pixels. PGI are not considering it to farm money, they are considering it out of kindness to IS players who don't want to buy clan mechs but still want to support the game you play and love.
Give 'em a chance?