268 replies to this topic

[Moonlander]

I think it's peculiar that people are quick to say others are bad pilots, or just to get over it because they don't own a Timberwolf. Personally, during the Clan vs IS matches, I played IS and went 7-6. The fact of the matter is, I've probably come across the same amount of terrible Clan and IS pilots. Regardless of what I'm personally piloting, whether it's Clan or IS.

Sometimes, I would lose regardless of which mech I dropped in, regardless of class or faction. I started wondering sometimes if I was the reason we were losing because I couldn't get a win in edgewise. Clearly, that wasn't the case after the end of match results were in. I get it tho, you payed $50, $150 or $250 for mechs. They should feel better than those you can just grind out for free. That's how I feel about my Dire, yet I still prefer to pilot my Atlas.

Edited by Moonlander, 19 September 2014 - 08:42 AM.

[El Bandito]

Ultimatum X, on 19 September 2014 - 07:49 AM, said:

He was 1v1 in an Atlas vs. a TBR. That generally means brawl range.

The range where you can no longer hide your legs behind stuff.


Unless all you do is hide in the back with LRMs, you can't keep your legs hidden forever.

By the time enemy gets to brawl range, legs are the only pristine part of my mechs anyway. I'll be actually glad if people target my legs then.

[Ultimax]

Glythe, on 19 September 2014 - 08:31 AM, said:

I never demanded total 1 on 1 balance. But I'd like the playing field to be remotely level. Let's start with something simple...

This whole issue, is a lesson in hidden consequences when begging for nerfs.


FLD PP Alpha style combat would have largely been a major edge for IS.

More IS mechs are (were) capable of running the variety of synergistic weapon combos to do it, with a full range of ballistics to synergize with PPCs (unlike Clan who only have Gauss).


The two best mechs for it were nerfed (HGN, VTR), but VTR was still good for it and there were still a variety of mechs that could run variations of it: CTF-3D, SHK, etc.

Then JJs were also nerfed.

PPCs were over nerfed.


The game has shifted to a laser meta (even if most players haven't caught on yet).


Guess which side has the edge in lasers?


So what could have been a massive advantage to IS, has been nerfed because of players themselves.


We reap what we sow.

Edited by Ultimatum X, 19 September 2014 - 08:54 AM.

[D R E A D N A U G H T]

Lets just do this. Give everyone the same mech with the same loadout. Then the game becomes about actual skill and tactical thinking as everyon is the same.

As long as there are mechs of different weight class and different loadout capabilities you will never achieve true balance.

Actually these mech packs are pointless. You're just buying empty shells to dump more nerfed weapon systems into. Lame.

[LT. HARDCASE]

Blood Rose, on 19 September 2014 - 12:24 AM, said:

Or we could you know.... not keep trolling the forums calling for PGI to nerf something just because we are bad pilots. 542 damage may seem like a lot but if your just spraying and praying then it wont do jack ****. Leave the Timberwolf be and learn to play or come C-Bill release there wont any Timberwolf, just a puppy. And before you go on at me about what I am saying I went 1V1 with a Timberwolf last night in my Vindicator. And won.

A fresh Timberwolf?

[AssaultPig]

the timberwolf really should not have been given jump jets. It also probably should have been slower. As it is, it has the best combo of firepower/armor/maneuverability of any mech in the game. It's an ultra-versatile mech that supports all kinds of fits. I bought the a la carte TBW package after seeing them in the wild for a few days, and I have never regretted it.

I don't think it's really in question that they're overpowered (to the extent that they all but obviate the nova and summoner, nevermind various IS mechs), but at this point I'm not really sure how you'd nerf them. Maybe some reduction in twist distance/speed is called for, or more negative quirks on their more useful omnipods. I don't really think the experience with similar nerfs to victors and highlanders was good, but I also don't think the devs really understood what the problem with those mechs was and 'fixed' the complete wrong thing.

[Ultimax]

AssaultPig, on 19 September 2014 - 09:21 AM, said:

It also probably should have been slower.

It can't be slower.


This is the issue with staying true to table top, which is a fan/player based demand.


Just as the Clan lights can never go faster, the DWF can never go faster, the TBR can never go slower.


I promise you, quite a number of players would drop that 375 down a few notches to get more firepower in - but that option is unlikely in the extreme.

[Glythe]

Ultimatum X, on 19 September 2014 - 08:52 AM, said:

Then JJs were also nerfed.

PPCs were over nerfed.

The game has shifted to a laser meta (even if most players haven't caught on yet).

Lasers are the best weapon for their heat/damage/weight. Even more so when you actually have double heat sinks instead of 1.4 sinks.

Lasers have been the best weapon for far longer than any other weapon in the game. If they were a stock you'd be a billionaire if you invested heavily in medium lasers. SRMs have been crap since they nerfed the explosion radius. LRMs have had several nose dives in effective use (notably ECM, radar deprivation, lock on/tracking changes and approach angle). Most of the ballistic weapons have been nerfed for heat, ammo count, range, velocity, rate of fire or some other limiting mechanic (some of them 2-3 times). The PPC is now an energy LBX that almost no one uses. Pulse weapons have always been too hot since the 1.4 heat sink debacle.

Ghost heat rightly nerfed ppcs as they were completely ridiculous when paired with jump jets and gauss. There was no reason for the ppc to be near hitscan like the gauss rifle is now. Pinpoint damage with infinite ammo on top of very long ranges and near hitscan weapon velocity was a huge mistake.

[Khobai]

Quote

It can't be slower.

Sure it can. Revamp the skill trees and take away speed tweak and anchor turn for heavies and assaults. Give them different skills instead. Now instead of going 89kph they only go 81kph.

Furthermore the S side torsos need some huge penalties to balance out gaining jumpjets. The current penalties are a complete joke.

Edited by Khobai, 19 September 2014 - 09:30 AM.

[Piney II]

Ultimatum X, on 19 September 2014 - 09:26 AM, said:

I promise you, quite a number of players would drop that 375 down a few notches to get more firepower in - but that option is unlikely in the extreme.

I would downsize the engine in my TBRs in a hearrtbeat to cram in some more firepower.

[Ultimax]

El Bandito, on 19 September 2014 - 08:45 AM, said:

By the time enemy gets to brawl range, legs are the only pristine part of my mechs anyway. I'll be actually glad if people target my legs then.

By the time a Brawler Atlas gets to brawl range he should also be fresh, because if he isn't it means he has spent the match failing at the build of the mech.

If you are designed for brawl range, you do not repeatedly stick your head out and take useless pot shots.

You support and defend the backfield, and try to get into your preferred range.


There is really no reason an Atlas in 1v1 with a TBR can not blast through a single leg at brawl range quickly.



Keep making excuses if you like, but the tactic is there.




Legs are the one place where most TBRs shave off for extra tonnage.

Smart builds only shave 7 to 10 points per leg, other more risky builds will shave more - either way you are looking at less than 60 points per leg.

TBR CT front armor is going to be around 80 to 88. Both STs are going to be around 54 to 62.

Do you want to try and cut your way through all of that on a fresh TBR that is working to spread damage or do you just drill through a single leg that is probably hovering around 56 to 54 armor?

If your aim is good and you have the DPS you can drill through a ST into CT, or similar, or if the TBR has already taken heavy damage on torsos - but the legs are an excellent target in a lot of situations.

Glythe, on 19 September 2014 - 09:27 AM, said:

Lasers have been the best weapon for far longer than any other weapon in the game.

Feel free to start a thread declaring that.

[Glythe]

Ultimatum X, on 19 September 2014 - 09:26 AM, said:

It can't be slower.

This is the issue with staying true to table top, which is a fan/player based demand.

What game are you playing man?

Where are the double heat sinks (down with 1.4 sinks)

Did you steal the early beta build where we had double heat sinks and 8 vs 8? Do you run around in an Awesome with 7 medium pulse lasers at 90 kph without ever overheating? Do you snipe with your double AC /20 Jagermech at 660m with no ghost heat? Of course you don't because they have made a LOT of changes from the TT game and they've basically said this is our thing and we'll do it how we want. The TT game does not have an engine limiting mechanic for IS mechs. If you want you can put a 400 engine in an atlas. More notably the TT game doesn't let you fire all your weapons at a single point on the enemy mech. That has been a big issue and remains as the reason why we have ghost heat.

Ultimatum X, on 19 September 2014 - 09:35 AM, said:

Feel free to start a thread declaring that.

You joined the forum in 2014 so that means you missed 2012 and 2013 unless you changed to a new account. If you didn't play the game during that time you can't have any meaningful discussion about that era of play

Edited by Glythe, 19 September 2014 - 09:49 AM.

[AssaultPig]

Ultimatum X, on 19 September 2014 - 09:26 AM, said:

It can't be slower.


This is the issue with staying true to table top, which is a fan/player based demand.


Just as the Clan lights can never go faster, the DWF can never go faster, the TBR can never go slower.


I promise you, quite a number of players would drop that 375 down a few notches to get more firepower in - but that option is unlikely in the extreme.

unpopular opinion alert: I don't care about the TT values at all. The TT environment and a real-time FPS environment are not the same and expecting the same ruleset to govern both is dumb. From a gameplay standpoint it is silly that the timberwolf is equally fast and maneuverable (if not moreso) compared to mechs that it both out-tons and out-guns.

I don't know how I would nerf it, but it ought to get one (or at least, the TBR-S ST omnipods should)

[Ultimax]

AssaultPig, on 19 September 2014 - 09:38 AM, said:

unpopular opinion alert: I don't care about the TT values at all.

I promise you I'd be fine with all manner of adjustments in favor of making this game, the one we are actually playing better.

Unfortunately PGI is in a spot, as changing those values upsets a lot of players who like those rules whether they are bad rules or not.


Sometimes players/fans of a particular IP start to worship the IP, including the flaws and any adjustments that improve gameplay in different formats are often taken as "ruining" the IP.


I don't agree with that, because mechanics are mechanics and fluff is fluff - but that's where we are.

[Hardin4188]

Mystere, on 19 September 2014 - 07:15 AM, said:

What dezgra disengages in a Timber Wolf?

I've seen it happen more often then I would like. I remember one time I told someone to stop running and face me and they did fight back. This was in closed or open beta so it's been awhile. I can't remember what button it is to talk to the other team now. Did they get rid of that?

Edited by Hardin4188, 19 September 2014 - 09:45 AM.

[Mystere]

Hardin4188, on 19 September 2014 - 09:43 AM, said:

I've seen it happen more often then I would like. I remember one time I told someone to stop running and face me and they did fight back. This was in closed or open beta so it's been awhile. I can't remember what button it is to talk to the other team now. Did they get rid of that?

Global chat was set to "off" by default in the game settings. Otherwise, it still works the same.

[Ultimax]

Glythe, on 19 September 2014 - 09:35 AM, said:

What game are you playing man?

Did you steal the early beta build where we had double heat sinks and 8 vs 8? Do you run around in an Awesome with 7 medium pulse lasers at 90 kph without ever overheating? Do you snipe with your double AC /20 Jagermech at 660m with no ghost heat? Of course you don't because they have made a LOT of changes from the TT game and they've basically said this is our thing and we'll do it how we want.

What "we" want is not a unanimous opinion on this particular subject.


If all (or 80+%) players wanted omni-pod rules construction changed, allowing for the removal of locked JJs, locked DHS, locked engine sizes, etc - PGI would probably give it to us.


However I imagine trying to push that would be several orders magnitude more difficult than the current ECM conversation.


A lot of players like those omni-pod rules, exactly how they are.

So "we" the playerbase are not in agreement, therefore we are unlikely to see changes by PGI.

Edited by Ultimatum X, 19 September 2014 - 09:47 AM.

[Glythe]

Not really.

I think more than 80% of players wanted true double heat sinks.



I just realized that I sound really bitter over that issue. I'm really not but it keeps coming up as the perfect example.

Edited by Glythe, 19 September 2014 - 09:51 AM.

[Mystere]

Ultimatum X, on 19 September 2014 - 08:52 AM, said:

This whole issue, is a lesson in hidden consequences when begging for nerfs.
...

We reap what we sow.

Actually, the issue is even bigger. You do not demand for nerfs in an obviously very incomplete game.

[Anarchy Stocking]

Wow-wow-wow! Stop touching ma Tibah-Whoof! Or I'll braek'ya face yo!