90 replies to this topic

[Adiuvo]

Mystere, on 19 September 2014 - 10:38 AM, said:

I have a question for you: Should air forces use crop duster pilots in determining whether to buy a French Rafale or a Russian SU-27?

No. Though the fighter pilots in this game all think clans are overpowered anyways. So... I don't see your point.

Or that you're even bringing it up when you're constantly saying **** esports anyways.

Edited by Adiuvo, 19 September 2014 - 11:52 AM.

[Mcgral18]

Adiuvo, on 19 September 2014 - 10:39 AM, said:

No. Though the fighter pilots in this game all think clans are overpowered anyways. So... I don't see your point.

Or that you're even bringing it up with you're constantly saying **** esports anyways.

Badder, Nopeva and Suckonner are OP?

[Adiuvo]

Mcgral18, on 19 September 2014 - 10:42 AM, said:

Badder, Nopeva and Suckonner are OP?

Adder is bad.

Nova is fine, just not as good as a Stormcrow.

Summoner is fine, just not as good as a Timberwolf.

In every single one of these clan balance discussions it's pretty obvious what mechs people are talking about when they say 'clans are OP'.

[Mystere]

Adiuvo, on 19 September 2014 - 10:39 AM, said:

No. Though the fighter pilots in this game all think clans are overpowered anyways. So... I don't see your point.

There is a hell of a difference between people "thinking" something and running actual scientific tests to prove it.

Adiuvo, on 19 September 2014 - 10:39 AM, said:

Or that you're even bringing it up with you're constantly saying **** esports anyways.

I haven't said that in here ... yet.

[Mcgral18]

Adiuvo, on 19 September 2014 - 10:47 AM, said:

Adder is bad.

Nova is fine, just not as good as a Stormcrow.

Summoner is fine, just not as good as a Timberwolf.

In every single one of these clan balance discussions it's pretty obvious what mechs people are talking about when they say 'clans are OP'.

Then why don't they say which mechs are OP, rather than just spurt out generalizations?

Nova was hurt hard by those heat nerfs, WubFox is no longer an acceptable performer....MadCat virtually unaffected.

Target the issues, rather than blanket nerf the bad ones.

[Adiuvo]

Mystere, on 19 September 2014 - 10:47 AM, said:

There is a hell of a difference between people "thinking" something and running actual scientific tests to prove it.




I haven't said that in here ... yet.

The clan vs. IS matches are the *closest you're ever going to get to a 'scientific' test in this game. That the data supports previous analysis by top tier players is just something nice to note.

Mcgral18, on 19 September 2014 - 10:49 AM, said:

Then why don't they say which mechs are OP, rather than just spurt out generalizations?

Nova was hurt hard by those heat nerfs, WubFox is no longer an acceptable performer....MadCat virtually unaffected.

Target the issues, rather than blanket nerf the bad ones.

I haven't suggested any fixes. If you want one, apply a 30% speed reduction and heat cap reduction upon the loss of a side torso. This will likely fix the Daishi. The Mad Cat will probably require further tweaks, specifically to the S components.

The laser nerfs did affect the most powerful Mad Cat builds. They're still the best builds, but it was a step in the right direction.

Edited by Adiuvo, 19 September 2014 - 10:58 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Adiuvo, on 19 September 2014 - 10:56 AM, said:

The clan vs. IS matches are the closet you're ever going to get to a 'scientific' test in this game. That the data supports previous analysis by top tier players is just something nice to note.


I haven't suggested any fixes. If you want one, apply a 30% speed reduction and heat cap reduction upon the loss of a side torso. This will likely fix the Daishi. The Mad Cat will probably require further tweaks, specifically to the S components.

The laser nerfs did affect the most powerful Mad Cat builds. They're still the best builds, but it was a step in the right direction.

So the Clans are not OP cause they Win only 78% of the Matches?

[meteorol]

Enlil09, on 19 September 2014 - 10:19 AM, said:

You really need to start dealing with the actual numbers rather than opinion and prejudice.

Hearing that from someone who constantly brings up wrong numbers for the DWs speed is somewhat amusing.

On a side note (coming from someone who used a TW for the last 400 matches): If you are unable to see that the TW is too powerful given PGIs goal to balance the clans against IS, chances are high that you simply don't want to see the obvious.

Edited by meteorol, 19 September 2014 - 11:07 AM.

[Jonathan Paine]

Of course, once PGI is done nerfing Clan weapons to the point that the Dire Wolf/Warhawk/Timberwolf are as weak as their IS equivalents, they will need to buff the heck out of mechs such as the Summoner and the Man of War.

Wohooooo!

[Livewyr]

Yay for IS mechs with clan skins! Keep it coming.

[Asyres]

I'm not really sure why folks are so quick to discard the data gathered in the IS vs. Clans tests. It's a statistically significant sample set that represents the experiences of the majority of the player base.

[BLOOD WOLF]

Jonathan Paine, on 19 September 2014 - 11:07 AM, said:

Of course, once PGI is done nerfing Clan weapons to the point that the Dire Wolf/Warhawk/Timberwolf are as weak as their IS equivalents, they will need to buff the heck out of mechs such as the Summoner and the Man of War.

Wohooooo!

yea, I keep hearing that but clans still knock the I.S out the water. Not that its a bad thing

[Mcgral18]

Asyres, on 19 September 2014 - 11:24 AM, said:

I'm not really sure why folks are so quick to discard the data gathered in the IS vs. Clans tests. It's a statistically significant sample set that represents the experiences of the majority of the player base.

It's not a controlled test.

[Hagoromo Gitsune]

Kiryuin Ragyo, on 19 September 2014 - 10:08 AM, said:

Clans are OP. And this is not a joke.

[Wolfways]

Adiuvo, on 19 September 2014 - 10:56 AM, said:

I haven't suggested any fixes. If you want one, apply a 30% speed reduction and heat cap reduction upon the loss of a side torso. This will likely fix the Daishi. The Mad Cat will probably require further tweaks, specifically to the S components.

I find it ridiculous that anyone thinks the Direwolf is OP. It's so slow!
The Direwolf is just a bigger Jager imo. It's the AC's that make it good. Otherwise its crap.

[Asyres]

Mcgral18, on 19 September 2014 - 11:31 AM, said:

It's not a controlled test.

I'll grant you that it's not perfect, but I'm not convinced that we could get better data. Most significant changes to the parameters of the trial would mean that it less closely represents the experiences of most players.

[Hoax415]

Its still aggregated data on a large enough scale that all the individual problems that determined one match or another (DC's, trial mechs, newbs, TK's, bad teamwork, bad builds, trolls etc.) are background noise.

But but bad IS pilots. There are bad Clan pilots too.

But but bad IS builds! There are bad Clan builds too.

But but muh SMN isn't as good as a Mad Cat! Nobody cares its good enough when compared to the CTF. I'd like to see the SMN get a jump quirk and maybe a missile quirk or something after this clan XL thing comes through but that mech is fine.

You can't find anything but useless individual anecdotal stories where people have come to a conclusion other than pure clan teams crush pure IS teams.

But you want to throw away the data we have, which yes is not perfect but if there is enough of it we can still see a pattern, in favor of what exactly?

Confirming your own personal self serving biases?

You idiots claim in every one of these threads that its just bad pilots bad builds and bad tactics that cause IS defeats in the tests. Then someone from Lords shows up and literally tells you exactly how a top player from THE top unit which is planning on rep'ing clans in CW sees it.

AND YOU SAY HES JUST FULL OF **** TROLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

God damn give it up already. Nobody is fooled by this bs and in all likelyhood if we were to search up old threads from June-August we'd find you same clowns saying that Clan was balanced back then too.

[Mcgral18]

Asyres, on 19 September 2014 - 11:36 AM, said:

I'll grant you that it's not perfect, but I'm not convinced that we could get better data. Most significant changes to the parameters of the trial would mean that it less closely represents the experiences of most players.

Though that's a player issue, not a mech issue. If the same thing is shown with 24 competent players, there would be a point. If the results are reversed once the players switch factions, it's also a player issue. Though if the team with the Clan mechs wins every time, even after players switch, you would have solid evidence.

You can't guarantee that in PUGs. You can't even guarantee 24 players period.

Edited by Mcgral18, 19 September 2014 - 11:40 AM.

[Hoax415]

Asyres, on 19 September 2014 - 11:36 AM, said:

I'll grant you that it's not perfect, but I'm not convinced that we could get better data. Most significant changes to the parameters of the trial would mean that it less closely represents the experiences of most players.

I disagree. I think that running a Clan vs IS test in group queue during a Challenge weekend where the parameter is wins might get us a test that better approximates what CW results will look like with the current state of balance between factions.

Its a very important question. If we got 500 matches between more organized teams, in the much more serious group queue, playing for wins to earn a challenge reward...

Would the clan winrate over IS go up or down?

Want to know what I think would happen? Most of the testing period would be Clan vs Clan teams. Because if there was a challenge on the line I think people would jump in their clan mechs to grind out wins over IS teams.

Only the people who are desperate to pretend for personal reasons that Clan mechs aren't still OP would think otherwise.

Edited by Hoax415, 19 September 2014 - 11:44 AM.

[BLOOD WOLF]

Wolfways, on 19 September 2014 - 11:35 AM, said:

I find it ridiculous that anyone thinks the Direwolf is OP. It's so slow!
The Direwolf is just a bigger Jager imo. It's the AC's that make it good. Otherwise its crap.

It cant be crap if the AC's make it good. Couldn't you say that about any mech. If it weren't for X it would be crap.

Edited by BLOOD WOLF, 19 September 2014 - 11:43 AM.