175 replies to this topic

[SI The Joker]

Sometimes the easiest answer is the answer.

Most of the time these players are (from my experiences and opinion) fairly new, have not yet grasped the mechanics of the game (How many other "FPS" style games have a targeting system?) and more than likely played MW:O the same way that I play War Thunder -- I log in... I patch the game... and I fly around shooting fools down in my cheapo planes and make gunning runs on ground vehicles and such.

I don't care about much else in that game... it's a "free my mind" game.

There's a good contingency of players who do that here, too.

[JudgeDeathCZ]

Bcuz some ppl are too stupid and unable to push more than 1 button for fire and walking to side...so you do not expect from them to do smthing hard like locking targets.

Joseph Mallan, on 19 September 2014 - 07:51 AM, said:

Cause forget that kill stealing Missile boat! I'd rather die than Win!

It is not only for LRM boats but for other ppl to know what others fighting against.It happens me a lot that some1 do not target enemy and I push infront of him to find out 5-6 enemies and they kill me almost instantly...gg guises -.-

SI The Joker, on 19 September 2014 - 08:59 AM, said:

Sometimes the easiest answer is the answer.

Most of the time these players are (from my experiences and opinion) fairly new, have not yet grasped the mechanics of the game (How many other "FPS" style games have a targeting system?) and more than likely played MW:O the same way that I play War Thunder -- I log in... I patch the game... and I fly around shooting fools down in my cheapo planes and make gunning runs on ground vehicles and such.

I don't care about much else in that game... it's a "free my mind" game.

There's a good contingency of players who do that here, too.

They I should ask why I am with my 12k drops still grouped with noobs unable to use R button or turn off arms lock -.-

Edited by JudgeDeathCZ, 19 September 2014 - 09:00 AM.

[Lynx7725]

Urgh. The amount of inanity in this thread is overwhelming.

The fundamental of the game is information sharing. You don't tell your team where the enemy is, they can't reposition to blunt the enemy team. You don't share the target info, don't expect the team to magically know where you need help against a big enemy push, don't complain that the team is not acting against the "obvious" enemy push.

Information is the basis for role warfare. If you don't share the information, people can't play the role they built their mechs for.

And all that is before the stupid LRM hate. Direct Fire mechs need the information in order to have situation awareness to put themselves in optimum engagement range. Teammates need the info to properly flank and attack. Not targeting essentially makes you a Rambo-wannabe and a minus to the team.

Urgh. Excuse me while I go find a desk to headdesk.

[xxREVxx]

cSand, on 19 September 2014 - 08:12 AM, said:

THIS


I personally use a Wii Remote with the Mario Kart steering wheel

when I want to target, I shake it up and down

LMAO! I visualized that and lost it, man!!
...oops, I mean
Thou almost hath causeth thy Reverend to cast thine coffee outeth His nose!

[Tarogato]

Yes, there is such a thing as killstealing, because sometimes you deal 80%+ of the damage a component and you feel like you deserve that extra XP and C-bills, but then somebody comes along and killshots the component and gets the kill bonus as well. So yeah, every once in a while (read: quite rarely indeed) I unlock a target so I can guarantee myself that final blow.

a bunch of people said:

locking an ECM mech is pointless/a waste of time

Ummm, why? You still get to see the paperdoll and loadout if they're under ECM, which is the most useful information you can have while engaged with them.

wanderer, on 19 September 2014 - 08:48 AM, said:

Fun fact: If you lock a target, lose LOS and then regain it...it'll automatically relock the target. Immediately.

This is actually incredibly annoying and I wish I could turn it off sometimes. When I see a mech poke out, my gut instinct is to press R immediately, and if that mech was the last one I had targeted, then woups... I just instinctively UNtargeted them. Really annoying mechanic for those of us that actually like to press R for Reflex.

[Piney II]

Lynx7725, on 19 September 2014 - 08:59 AM, said:

.
Information is the basis for role warfare. If you don't share the information, people can't play the role they built their mechs for.

Why would I want to share information when I want all of those juicy targets all to myself?

[wanderer]

Quote

If i dont lock him up its because he is close to death, otherwise I will ask for help. (by using "R")

Quote

when I dont lock its because I dont want my LRM boat to waist missles on a target I know it cant hit.

Lock him anyway. I have plenty of times where I picked up a savior kill bonus because someone pinged a target they thought was tough to hit with LRMs/not worth it - and I put an ERLL beam through the right spot and cut the kill time down considerably. Or it attracted attention from another team-mate who DID have the shot.

You know all those games where at the end, you see some enemy guy one shot from dead?

Generally, it's because nobody hit the R key, people didn't see the weak target and didn't finish it off...allowing it to keep firing back and kill you in turn.

A targeted opponent is one that other team mates tend to fire on in turn. Focus fire kills enemies fastest and best- and NOT doing it guarantees damage spread all over the place.

You're ahead of the game when the shots that would just crater armor on two enemies kills one instead. That's what the R key does.

Use it. Always.

[Empyrus]

The game's reward system sure does not encourage sharing data or kills. Indeed the idea seems to be to damage every enemy once and then try to kill as many as you can to earn maximum C-bills.

[Piney II]

I lock every target I can, even if I have no intention of engaging it.

[Hagoromo Gitsune]

151st Light Horse Regiment, on 19 September 2014 - 07:49 AM, said:

I literally smh at this all the time.

People never lock targets. I've specced people going head to head with another mech and never locking them up. This happens all the time.

You're denying yourself help from friendly missiles, and more importantly, denying yourself valuable information.

I've seen a guy in a phract, going up against a KFX or something, as the only two mechs left. He didnt even bother to lock the other mech up.

So he doesnt know which parts are most damaged, is he set up for close quarters or ranged combat etc.

I just dont understand it.

Well, when you facing 2 TBR's, Jenner and some DRW is comming there is no time to press R... there is 2 Mouse Buttons more than enough.

[Ronan]

When I have not got LRMS, I lock targets so I can see weakened spots that I might be able to knock off (and so remove their weapons).

When I have got LRMS, I lock targets so I can hit things. I like to participate. LRMs (mostly) need locks, so I plan on getting my own.

I do NOT expect others to "face tank" so I can have locks and stay in cover. I HOPE others will get locks, especially when they are actively engaging enemies, so I can add LRM "sanding" of armor to their attacks. I'm looking for assists and a win. Y'all can keep your kills.

Outright refusing to lock anything means you're going it alone. No support, no easy way for the rest of your team to know you might need help or to focus fire (without using chat, which is hard to use while engaged).

[Wolfways]

Empyrus, on 19 September 2014 - 08:07 AM, said:

LRM boats need to learn to get their own locks. Whenever i played with a Catapult, i wasn't lazy and locked my own targets.

I really think the LRM ranges should be reduced to 660 meters like they're in the board game, this would put them in range of other long range weapons...

There are currently 21 weapons in MWO that have a longer range than LRM's.

[Empyrus]

Wolfways, on 19 September 2014 - 09:37 AM, said:

There are currently 21 weapons in MWO that have a longer range than LRM's.

Effective (max damage) ranges are relatively low, with the ERPPC having longest at 810m if i recall correctly.
Perhaps 660m is too little.. but overall, i think all weapons should have their ranges reduces, specifically the fall-off ranges. Mech combat should be in-your-face thing (indeed this is why the tabletop has such ridiculously small weapon ranges).

[Lynx7725]

Empyrus, on 19 September 2014 - 07:53 AM, said:

Friendly indirect-fire missiles do not need their targets locked by friendlies (only the firing unit), they need a friend with line of sight to the enemies.

I'll like to correct this misconception. Empty red triangles (unlocked targets) on your HUD are not transmitted to your teammates. Only filled red triangles (locked targets) are transmitted. If you have 4 enemy mechs on your HUD and locks up one (limitation of the system), your back line support which has no LOS would only see that one enemy mech you locked (and not the other 3 unfilled triangles), and they in turn need to achieve missile locks for their missile racks on their own.

[AssaultPig]

it's not a matter of LRMs. I mean, LRM mechs will appreciate you holding a lock, but even if you have no LRM mechs on your team you're still passing along useful, valuable information.

That said most of the time players that don't lock targets at all are pretty obviously New™ and/or Bad™, so try not to rag on them too much

[Rando Slim]

Hmm well for me I forget sometimes in the middle of a brawl, otherwise tbh I think the answer is that the game is fundamentally not that hard to hit the CT of any mech. Like honestly if you are strictly a CT shooter, theres not much point to hitting 'R' if you are selfish. Like for me I leg some things but I don't bother with anything else than the CT because the faster I can get a whole set of guns out of the fight the better, whats the point of blowing the ears off a t-wolf when even at half firepower it can still melt your face?
Also target info gathering is really slow at any appreciable distance and I don't have the slots to run the module for that all the time, so by the time the little doll comes up showing me where I should shoot, I've either already exposed myself (otherwise now you cant lock em thanks to radar derp) or Im already engaging them and am two volleys into the fight, by which point Ive probably already commited to just shooting the CT like always.

Edited by Scrotacus 42, 19 September 2014 - 09:47 AM.

[Lynx7725]

Scrotacus 42, on 19 September 2014 - 09:45 AM, said:

whats the point of blowing the ears off a t-wolf when even at half firepower it can still melt your face?

Legging it so that you can outrun it into cover and come back to kill it later?

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

A lot of players deliberately don't lock targets, in order to deny their allied LRM players the opportunity to "kill steal" from them.

A lot of other players don't realize that targeting is a thing, and certainly don't realize that target info is one of the most powerful things you can have in this game.

[Empyrus]

Lynx7725, on 19 September 2014 - 09:44 AM, said:

I'll like to correct this misconception. Empty red triangles (unlocked targets) on your HUD are not transmitted to your teammates. Only filled red triangles (locked targets) are transmitted. If you have 4 enemy mechs on your HUD and locks up one (limitation of the system), your back line support which has no LOS would only see that one enemy mech you locked (and not the other 3 unfilled triangles), and they in turn need to achieve missile locks for their missile racks on their own.

If anyone in a team sees a target, anyone in the team can lock on that target even if they do not have line of sight on those enemies. Try it. Filled triangles are not required.
Or my installation is broken in some really odd way.

Edited by Empyrus, 19 September 2014 - 09:48 AM.

[Lynx7725]

Empyrus, on 19 September 2014 - 09:48 AM, said:

If anyone in a team sees a target, anyone in the team can lock on that target even if they do not have line of sight on those enemies. Try it. Filled triangles are not required.
Or my installation is broken in some really odd way.

Doesn't work that way unless someone locked the target up, or the pilot has direct LOS himself, or a friendly UAV is overhead. It's a fundamental -- that's why surprise attack works, because the lone picket gets hit by 4 mechs he had no time to target to warn the rest of the team, then that 4 enemy mechs get a free invisible pass into the back lines. If just LOS is enough, then surprise attacks are spoilt the first instance someone lay eyes on the attackers.

The system inherently limits the transmission to the locked target, in a way is to make the game a bit more of a challenge. The spotter has to choose which target to highlight to the rest of the team.

Note that there is a difference between unlocked target, locked target, and missile locks.