175 replies to this topic

[Lynx7725]

Carcass23, on 19 September 2014 - 11:16 AM, said:

I was chided the other night on Caustic for not hitting R and helping my teammates, even though I constantly keep a lock on when available. I am in the middle of a brawl, my lock disappears behind a ridge and another comes up and suddenly I am a knuckle dragging PUG who refuses to help teammates. Coupled with ECM its sometimes hard to get a freakin lock. That said, I could have jammed ECM with mine, but you know? I guess I got distracted. Stuff does happen.

Doubt anybody of sufficient experience would hold that against you. It happens. I totally sympathize with brawlers not wanting their faces melted off trying to hold a lock for low-powered LRMs to arrive to scrub armour. When I run support, I almost never bother with locks early in the game, since they tend to be very transient. Except for a few "OHAI!" missiles...

Carcass23, on 19 September 2014 - 11:16 AM, said:

That said, if you arent keeping locks because you're afraid of kill stealing. You have missed the point of this game entirely.

This is the real problem. Information hiding for personal gain in a team game is just.. bad.

[Fut]

CapperDeluxe, on 19 September 2014 - 07:51 AM, said:

Lock your own targets, bring your own TAG.


Why?


Because we're putting ourselves at risk every second our faces are exposed to the enemy. Do you really think we're going to risk that for you to maybe shoot and miss? No we're shooting, juking, and trying to make mince meat out of the enemy while avoiding or spreading the damage around ourselves.

It's not even about getting locks for your team mates, it's about getting information about your opponent. The lock not only shows you what weapons your opponent has (letting you know whether you should charge in tight to get closer than their minimum range, or whether you should keep distance because all they have is an AC20 and SRMs), it shows you where your opponent is damaged (letting you know where to place your shots. You might be trying to breach their CT armor, but one more shot to their ST might remove 50% of their weapons, for example).

Not locking targets reduces your own combat effectiveness, it's as simple as that.
The fact that it also makes it easier for your team to assist you is just icing on the cake.

[Prezimonto]

CapperDeluxe, on 19 September 2014 - 07:51 AM, said:

Lock your own targets, bring your own TAG.


Why?


Because we're putting ourselves at risk every second our faces are exposed to the enemy. Do you really think we're going to risk that for you to maybe shoot and miss? No we're shooting, juking, and trying to make mince meat out of the enemy while avoiding or spreading the damage around ourselves.

The point is that it IS a selfish and useful act to hit "r". Targeting information lets you know if you should go toe to toe or back off from their loadout; target a specific location for a fast kill or just aim CT; back off because they're in much better shape than you are or stick like glue to them because you have the advantage. I run the target info module on any brawling mech I can. As an added benefit, when you hit "r" they may become distracted while fighting you because one of your missile boats starts raining on their parade with high-explosives. This means you'll take a less damage from the distracted mech and be much more likely to be able to move to the next opponent or engagement with sufficient armor.

Edited by Prezimonto, 19 September 2014 - 11:30 AM.

[Livewyr]

I will lock my target if I have an opportunity, but I am not going to go out and hold locks for the Lurmboat.

1: In this TTK environment staring at your opponent is pretty stupid.
2: He can get his own damned locks. He wants to sit back and let everyone else tank for him, he can sit back and twiddle his thumbs, I give not a damn.
3: Just because you have LRMs does not mean you are required to sit back behind your team. You can shoot direct fire just as well. (Shoot and Scoot like the rest of us, you are not special...as a matter of fact, in the ECM environment, you are arguably Dead Weight)


When I lock a target, it is to see where to aim on him/her in particular.

[Mercules]

Empyrus, on 19 September 2014 - 11:13 AM, said:

I have always been under impression that one unfilled triangles are transmitted as well. Pretty sure they used to be transmitted.
Either the are, or there's someone using UAV in my games very, very often.

Did they change this at some point?

Never. It has NEVER worked that way. The day they opened the door to Founders it worked the way it does this very day. If the Triangle is filled then you are actively targeting it. You will get a readout on the mech's loadout and armor and your target will be noticed by friendly mechs not in direct LoS.

[terrycloth]

Target info seems really inconsistent in when it comes up. Hitting R doesn't seem sufficient, I think you also have to shoot them?

[Mcgral18]

terrycloth, on 19 September 2014 - 11:49 AM, said:

Target info seems really inconsistent in when it comes up. Hitting R doesn't seem sufficient, I think you also have to shoot them?

Time for the paperdoll to appear is based on distance from target.

Modules and APs decrease the time.

[Lynx7725]

terrycloth, on 19 September 2014 - 11:49 AM, said:

Target info seems really inconsistent in when it comes up. Hitting R doesn't seem sufficient, I think you also have to shoot them?

No, there's a delay. How big a delay depends on a number of factors. If you have CAP and TarComp, it's damn near instant. BAP shortens it, as do Target Info module. The effects for some stuff stack, so some people, when you spectate them, can seem to have instantaneous target info -- and they do, if they build things right.

[Empyrus]

Mercules, on 19 September 2014 - 11:39 AM, said:

Never. It has NEVER worked that way. The day they opened the door to Founders it worked the way it does this very day. If the Triangle is filled then you are actively targeting it. You will get a readout on the mech's loadout and armor and your target will be noticed by friendly mechs not in direct LoS.

Hmm. Then i guess i've never trusted my teammates to provide data and have always tried to keep my own LOS on my targets.
*shrug*
Don't expect me to provide targets to cowardly fools who just hang back, a good missile boat is pro-active.

[Fut]

Empyrus, on 19 September 2014 - 11:54 AM, said:

Don't expect me to provide targets to cowardly fools who just hang back, a good missile boat is pro-active.

You seem to have missed the point of the thread.
The missile boats being able to provide you added support is gravy

[Mercules]

Empyrus, on 19 September 2014 - 11:54 AM, said:

Hmm. Then i guess i've never trusted my teammates to provide data and have always tried to keep my own LOS on my targets.
*shrug*
Don't expect me to provide targets to cowardly fools who just hang back, a good missile boat is pro-active.

I won't. I also won't expect you to do very well at the game until you stop being actively hostile towards people you should be helping. Kills don't matter, XP and C-bills don't matter, even wins don't matter. Those are just stats. By being so negative towards other players, especially ones you should be cooperating with you will be ruining your own experience in the game. The only person you are hurting by being stubborn is you.


See, if I have LRMs and you don't lock your target. Despite my "cowardice" I will be able to help someone who actually does lock their targets out. They will find my LRMs stripping armor off that other mech so that they themselves take less damage from it. They will find the LRMs will shake the opponent's screen and blind them so that they themselves take less damage. They will find that the LRMs might make the enemy mech break for cover and panic and be able to pump shots into the enemy without having the enemy return fire and take less damage themselves. They will find that the LRMs from their teammate improves their own survival allowing them to get more XP and C-Bills by lasting longer so they can send out more damage and maybe from winning the match. They also will see for themselves when some part of the mech opens up and they can destroy it and so will take less damage and get component destruction.

OR

They can be dumb. Not lock up the target and have to pound through the mech's armor all by themselves allowing the other mech time to do the same to them and end up doing less damage in the match because they don't live as long. In fact the enemy mech will probably lock them, cut off arms if they end up open and call down LRMs from his team to help him kill quicker.

[Empyrus]

Mercules, on 19 September 2014 - 12:12 PM, said:

I won't. I also won't expect you to do very well at the game until you stop being actively hostile towards people you should be helping. Kills don't matter, XP and C-bills don't matter, even wins don't matter. Those are just stats. By being so negative towards other players, especially ones you should be cooperating with you will be ruining your own experience in the game. The only person you are hurting by being stubborn is you.

My issue with missile boats is that they inevitably seem to be the kind who don't dare to be in the frontlines. I have no issues with providing targets (if there's no ECM ruining everything, as there is too often) for people who are willing to share the heat. If someone just sits 600 meters away and doesn't peek over the hill but only fires missiles from behind it... well, i don't care to help them. As you say, nothing matters in this game... with no framework for the matches, helping doesn't matter, wins don't matter.
Besides, the closer the missile boats are, the more effective they are.
And then there's the special group of people who insist firing their missiles 1000m+ away...

I can't be positive about people i cannot respect, and cowardice, which so many missile boats seem to exhibit, is easily the trait i hate most.

As i may have noted, i used to use a Catapult missile boat, and i always made sure i was finding targets, not just waiting for them to pop up on my HUD (and often took it to close combat too. Heavy secondary armament. Stopped using it because of the Catapult visual changes and missile effect changes. Plus it was too boring, i've always been a close combat player).

Edited by Empyrus, 19 September 2014 - 12:29 PM.

[Zoid]

Hagoromo Gitsune, on 19 September 2014 - 09:28 AM, said:

Well, when you facing 2 TBR's, Jenner and some DRW is comming there is no time to press R... there is 2 Mouse Buttons more than enough.

Get better. If locking targets detracts from doing anything else, you need to get better.

And seriously, this isn't a missile boat issue. Everyone benefits from target locks. Knowing exactly where the enemy is can mean the difference between dropping an alpha strike into a damaged target and ducking back behind cover vs eating 6 Gauss slugs in return. It's absolutely hilarious when someone tries to poptart not realizing that a light has a target lock on him, so every time he pops up he gets a bunch of lasers and Gauss to the face.

Edited by Zoid, 19 September 2014 - 12:42 PM.

[Dahnyol]

If only there was someway to quickly communicate with a new player over some sort of voice radio system to solve these simple issues.

Or just continue to type to them in blue your teamspeak server and fight against basic built in game voice comm.

Next week: "Omg why don't people back up when I say back up? Or rush when I rush?"

[Zoid]

Side note: It's funny and sad to see people still thinking that locks aren't important when the two most common conversations on this forum are about how OP LRMs and ECM are.

[LT. HARDCASE]

When I spectate people, I'm shocked and horrified by how many of my teammates are brawling without locking the target. Not for the lurm boats, but to know where the enemy is weak.

But the truth is, in the heat of a CQC engagement, people just get lost in the moment. Hell I've been guilty of it, but it's one of the things I'm working on the most. What worked for me was to bind target lock to 'E'. that change immediately felt way more natural for my long a fingers as having it closer to 'w' really did make the press more instinctual than 'r'.

[Spawnsalot]

Awful lot of dumb in this thread... targeting the enemy shows you where he's hurting so you can take them down quicker and use your armour against another mech, having lrm support is an added bonus. If you're worried about people stealing your kills its because you take too long to kill something because you don't know where they're damaged. Fight smarter not harder.

Remember kids:

Don't be a tool, lock that fool.

[Mazerius]

Holding Q every now and then is useful too(or whatever you bound it too) if one of your team mates has a little bar graph thingy above his head hes targeted by the enemy.

[Agent 0 Fortune]

I am sure this has been mentioned, but here are my reasons.
1. I am facing a crippled mech and do not want you wasting missile shots on it instead of a more deserving target.
2. I am facing and ECM mech and cannot target it.
3. My primary prey is trying to hide, and I want to know immediately when he comes back into view.
4. I am target cycling to give a heads up to my allies. If I come across a bunch of untargeted/unidentified  mechs I will often spam the r key to "ping" them for my allies, this is usually followed by my immediate retreat (so no fixed target).
5. My target is beyond 800m (effective targeting range).

Edited by Agent 0 Fortune, 19 September 2014 - 01:55 PM.

[Fut]

Spawnsalot, on 19 September 2014 - 01:30 PM, said:

Awful lot of dumb in this thread... targeting the enemy shows you where he's hurting so you can take them down quicker and use your armour against another mech, having lrm support is an added bonus. If you're worried about people stealing your kills its because you take too long to kill something because you don't know where they're damaged. Fight smarter not harder.

Perfectly stated.

Spawnsalot, on 19 September 2014 - 01:30 PM, said:

Remember kids:

Don't be a tool, lock that fool.

Holy ****, I love this!
Can we get MWO lunch-boxes made up with this saying on them?