Ultimatum X, on 20 September 2014 - 12:10 PM, said:
You do understand that AC 2s are already 2000m/s correct?
Are you unable to argue this without resorting to logical fallacies?
Have I asked for all pinpoint weapons to eliminate lasers?
OK, you've stopped making sense and have resorted to absurd premises.
Why would anyone use a 10 damage, 10 heat, 7 ton laser with a 540m range?
They would never use it, because it would be clearly inferior to nearly every other laser option.
If you are unable to argue this honestly, without letting your personal bias against front loaded weapons shine through then I think we need to end the conversation here or it will just degenerate.
Argue honestly? There is no honestly to this argument to begin with. The first thread o this, months ago, went through all the honest arguments. The most honest argument has already been put forward: 'which do you see more of still, PPCs or AC10s?'
That never got a response because the response is obvious.
How about this:
'You used to see more PPCs than any other weapon and they were called 'the meta' for the last year. Do you still see almost all PPCs on the field? Are the more or less proportional to other weapons now?'
No response to that one either.
PPCs got their speed buff originally because hitreg issues made them pointless otherwise. They got a heat reduction too. Hitreg got fixed, they were god-tier. So heat got rolled back. Ghost heat implemented. PPCs were still the most dominant weapon in the game because they were PPFLD and near instant hit out to 1km. You could accurately hit people at ranges where the weapon was doing at best 1pt of damage. No other weapon save lasers did this.
So after all the other failed attempts to reign in PPCs they were made comparable with every other PPFLD weapon in the game.
I get how you're trying to dance around exactly what you're asking for -
And let's be perfectly clear here about that. What you're asking for is to, for example, be able to take 2 PPCs and be able to hit with pinpoint accuracy for 20pts a single location on mechs at 540m or further. So like an AC20 with double the range, higher heat and 4 or 5 times the accuracy.
How about this argument?
'We had that for 18 months and almost everyone hated it, because it was just the same thing every game no need for weapon variety since if you were not taking a PPC you were gimping yourself'.
I get how you want to try and corner the debate into things like heat vs DPS or singular metric analysis to make it look like something it isn't. I've already tried every single logical argument on this topic and they were wasted electrons. PPCs are a PPFLD weapon, just like ACs. They need balanced with/against ACs for that very reason. You don't want them balanced against ACs? Make them DoT like other energy weapons and balance them there. You want to buff PPFLD accuracy? Do it across the board. AC2s got a number of nerfs already and are quite fast and accurate but otherwise pretty worthless. AC5s are useful but not disproportionately so. AC10s are still in a bad space because they are 2 tons lighter than an AC20 but 1/2 the tonnage. You're better off with a PPC, fraction the tonnage, better range, no ammo. The real fix for AC10s is LB10X getting the ability to swap ammo types.
The very basis of the argument you are making, which is 'PPCs should be more accurate' is inherently dishonest because it's asking to make 1 weapon dominant - again. It's not even a new idea; we tried it for 18 months.
Currently it's in balance with other PPFLD weapons and while useful it's not overwhelmingly so. It's PPFLD, so it suffers for accuracy. The one exception is the gauss which has brutal weight, explodes and chargeup to offset its combo of high speed, damage and range.
Of course we all know this though. It's not new ground; none of it is. We've got two groups here arguing opinions. One opinion is 'I want PPCs to be the best PPFLD weapon again, like they used to be. Maybe not quite so OP but certainly better than they are now' and the other group going 'It is an actual decision now on taking weapons or building a loadout that isn't either "Take PPCs for optimal performance" or "play at a disadvantage".'
If you want to make all PPFLD weapons more accurate then do it. Let me shoot my AC20 at 900 m/s out to 270m then give it a speed drop-off. Remove that ballistic drop that makes them less accurate at range beyond their optimal. Make an AC10 as fast and accurate as a PPC at long ranges and you'll see them more often. Then the gauss charge up won't be an issue because nobody will really need to take them. Bump AC5s accordingly to 1500 or so. Make them all brutally accurate to their max range and then fall off and get rid of ballistic drop.
That's not what you're asking for though. You just want this one specific weapon to be flat out superior to every other PPFLD weapon and say that it's balanced by high heat. We already know that doesn't work; it just promotes peek-shoot-wait gameplay because if I can put 20-30 pts on a single location at 500m, then lean out and do it 2 more times while you're trying to safely get to point blank then you're going to have no armor when you close with me.
This debate was never honest. It was always a request for a weapon system that is finally in balance to be unbalanced again. All the clear, concise and reasonable points as to why this is a good thing were made months ago. Every point that comes up like 'AC10 vs PPC, which do you see more often' or just how representative the PPC is on the field now gets ignored.
I carry PPFLD weapons on almost every IS mech I play. I even run it on some clan builds. I like having a reason to play something other than PPCs every match. I have a bias; it's the product of having played fast PPCs for almost 2 years. I already know what they play like and that crappy experience is why PPCs finally got put back into line.
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