50 replies to this topic

[Duke Hector]

i have been asking this question for a good while now. and i am still very curious about what is going on with it.

will merc company founders be able to use custom artwork (ie their logos) on their Mech when the system is realeased?

will we be given the chance to pre register said logos like we did units and unit tags before the system is released?

[Redshift2k5]

Custom images is a legal and technical minefield- including factors like when/how do you load the textures to other players' computers(MWO doesn't have any streaming data and doesn't download any new textures when it loads a map!), if you upload a copywrite protected image to PGI's server they're suddenly liable, are you going to pay someone to manually look at all the images to evaluate for legal and politically-correct material, etc

[DEMAX51]

I severely doubt we'll see custom, player-submitted decals any time soon, for the very reasons Red mentions in his post above.

Russ did mention in the Town Hall, however, that a basic decals system might be added in time for CW, so you can at least use the generic emblems for the factions to identify your allegiance.

Edited by DEMAX51, 19 September 2014 - 12:44 PM.

[TygerLily]

Redshift2k5, on 19 September 2014 - 12:34 PM, said:

if you upload a copywrite protected image to PGI's server they're suddenly liable, are you going to pay someone to manually look at all the images to evaluate for legal and politically-correct material, etc

I'll do it! Hire me!

[KamikazeRat]

TygerLily, on 19 September 2014 - 12:45 PM, said:

I'll do it! Hire me!

dang, beat me to it.

[Karl Marlow]

Maybe have the unit that wants a custom logo pay a significant amount of Cbills to submit their logo. That would keep the number of logos that would need to be reviewed to a manageable level and encourage units to submit appropriate logos lest they lose their investment.

[EgoSlayer]

ThomasMarik, on 19 September 2014 - 12:55 PM, said:

Maybe have the unit that wants a custom logo pay a significant amount of Cbills to submit their logo. That would keep the number of logos that would need to be reviewed to a manageable level and encourage units to submit appropriate logos lest they lose their investment.

Make it MC instead of C-Bills. When people have to spend real money they'll be less likely to submit anything that's questionable. Merc corps have members that are individually billionaires, a 10 Million Cbill price would be nothing, yet would be too high for some others. Also, real money pays PGI's bills for having to review content.

[PANZERKAT]

You can do it in Archeage and it's easy. Put them on paintings, cloaks, sails, masks.

Have people pay a moderate sum of MC and have someone go through them to approve or disapprove. Give reasons so any changes need to be made. Tack the job onto the community manager or something. At first there would be a flood, but I doubt it would be a taxing upkeep after the initial order.

Something to think about. They are all about there large amounts of cash at one time and then trickle impact after. This could be one of those cash grabs. I'm sure it could at least fund a map....or the wanted Urbanmech.

Edited by KOMMISSAR KITTY, 19 September 2014 - 01:51 PM.

[terrycloth]

For the copyright issue they just have to tell you to only upload things you own in the TOS, and take them down immediately if people complain. There are lots of websites that deal with user generated content and while it's not trivial, you don't need to have someone manually pre-approve each submission.

[LauLiao]

terrycloth, on 19 September 2014 - 01:54 PM, said:

For the copyright issue they just have to tell you to only upload things you own in the TOS, and take them down immediately if people complain. There are lots of websites that deal with user generated content and while it's not trivial, you don't need to have someone manually pre-approve each submission.

The problem with this is that they can actually get into trouble if they allow you to use copywritten material and take money for it. People freely posting copywritten material on say Facebook or something is a lot different than a company making money off someone else's images. Then there's also the potential for grossly inappropriate images being used. I don't want to see some troll running around with a picture of his own "junk" on the side of his mech. I don't care that PGI will take it down if someone complains, I don't want to see it in the first place.

[PANZERKAT]

LauLiao, on 19 September 2014 - 03:08 PM, said:

The problem with this is that they can actually get into trouble if they allow you to use copywritten material and take money for it. People freely posting copywritten material on say Facebook or something is a lot different than a company making money off someone else's images. Then there's also the potential for grossly inappropriate images being used. I don't want to see some troll running around with a picture of his own "junk" on the side of his mech. I don't care that PGI will take it down if someone complains, I don't want to see it in the first place.

It should be an option only open to guild leaders and only MC. Give them 1 slot for an image with the unit able to upgrade, for MC, extra slots for extra decals. Obviously anyone in the unit has access to unit decals. If they want to step it up a notch, only people with premium time may use unit decals. Even that would be fine.

They won't really get in trouble for someone uploading an image under copyright if they have the methods in place to monitor it and take them down. Again, Archeage states any images under copy right could get you banned and images that shouldn't be in the game will be taken down.

With it being restricted to a unit leader and costing money there will only be so many people uploading images and someone actually having to approve and take a look before passing it isn't a huge task and saves future effort and drama to monitor them without pre-approval. Images are approved twice a week on certain days, for example.

They can make some decent cash off of custom images.

Edited by KOMMISSAR KITTY, 19 September 2014 - 04:15 PM.

[Sandpit]

Redshift2k5, on 19 September 2014 - 12:34 PM, said:

Custom images is a legal and technical minefield-

Nah, tons of other games do it. It's more than feasible. This isn't a rare occurrence, it's pretty common actually. WT, WoT, CoD, GTA, etc. all offer this system. It's simply not a reason not to have them. Russ stated in the Townhall that they would begin implementation of decals so the system is already, at the very least, being worked on (even if that's still the "design phase").

Now there's a few ways it could be done. The first, and simplest, would be a system similar to Black Ops. You're given a bunch of geometric shapes, logos, decals, etc. a number of layers to work with. You can combine those shapes into some pretty creative stuff
(just google black ops emblems or click this link https://www.google.c...iw=1920&bih=955)

It also gives PGI plausible deniability if a company were to C&D for copyrighted material. Unless it's offensive, vulgar, etc. it's not an issue and in those cases other players can report it and get it deleted. If a player continues to violate the rules regarding decals, they can then have their ability to create and use them revoked. It's free, it's simple, and it gives players a little freedom in creativity when it comes to logo design.

The other way it could be implemented would be on a paid system. If I wanted to design an emblem for RMA mechs, I can open up photoshop and create the emblem. Then I save it in whatever format PGI would require. I can then upload it for a small MC fee (by small I'm talking 100 or less). Once it is uploaded I can choose to make it "private" or "public".

Private means it's not available to the public and can only be given out by the original uploader. I can then pick and choose who gets to ahve the customer emblem I created.

Public means I upload it and the entire community has access to it.

But wait, there's more!

If an uploaded image violates PGI's ToS regarding emblems it can be deleted with no refund to the uploader.

Now, the reason I wanted to point out "public" vs. "private" is because once uploaded there would be a "marketplace" for players. After I pay the upload fee I can place it on the market and sell it to the general public. I can set the price at whatever I want but, obviously, if I price it too high, I'll never sell any, if I price it too low, it's not worth it. I would also be able to take emblems on consignment via the "private" option. So if Rancid's Raucous Rambos wants a custom decal designed for their unit, I can offer them a price, make the design, and upload it. I can then sell it to that unit privately for a flat fee (that we negotiated prior to). I then give them xx number of copies to disperse to their unit members.

Example:
I design a "generic" decal/nose art for mechs. I pay the MC upload fee and place it on the "public" market for 100,000 cbills. Players can browse through the public market and if they like my design can purchase it. PGI could take an "escrow" fee of 10% for an additional cbill sink. Every time a player purchases an emblem I've uploaded my account is credited with that amount of cbills.

I design an emblem for the Rambos. I charge 1,000,000 cbills for a custom design and the first 10 copies. Every copy after that costs an additional 100,000 cbills. I pay the MC upload fee, send the player the logo (or, if I want to verify it's what they want, I email them a watermarked or redacted image to make sure it's what they want), and collect my fee. If the player's unit continues to grow and they request additional copies, all I have to do is go back to my uploaded images and send them however many copies they need.

This adds in another stream of revenue for PGI, creates a player-driven portion of the economy, and creates an additional cbill sink as well. If the uploaded images violate PGI's ToS, then I lose my privileges to upload them as well as any of the MC I spent uploading it.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Redshift2k5, on 19 September 2014 - 12:34 PM, said:

Custom images is a legal and technical minefield- including factors like when/how do you load the textures to other players' computers(MWO doesn't have any streaming data and doesn't download any new textures when it loads a map!), if you upload a copywrite protected image to PGI's server they're suddenly liable, are you going to pay someone to manually look at all the images to evaluate for legal and politically-correct material, etc

How does Microsoft get away with it with Forza's User Created Paint scheme's?

Also, "Online Interactions not rated by the ESRB" meaning that what happens on line, has no bearing on PGI, they are not liable, they are not required in any way to monitor what is being said, or what is being used in game.

now I understand the worry, people do not want to see legions of {Richard Cameron} and vagina's and boobs marching their way on the battlefield. But at the same time, if we limit the creation of decals, those of us who are affiliated with a unit cannot represent the unit properly.

I really don't understand this culture we live in of we must always be PC, we must always "Think of the Children." Well you know what, if something is objectionable in a videogame that you're allowing your child to play, guess what, YOU are allowing the child to play it. Monitor your kid closer and if you don't like it, DON'T LET THEM PLAY IT.

It's not the company's place to protect your kid for you.

[Ghogiel]

Redshift2k5, on 19 September 2014 - 12:34 PM, said:

Custom images is a legal and technical minefield- including factors like when/how do you load the textures to other players' computers(MWO doesn't have any streaming data and doesn't download any new textures when it loads a map!), if you upload a copywrite protected image to PGI's server they're suddenly liable, are you going to pay someone to manually look at all the images to evaluate for legal and politically-correct material, etc

Safe harbour laws and ToS for uploaded images would likely protect them from liability, just like the forum. Loads of games have stolen content put in by users. I've had many assets I have made stolen and even sold by users in secondlife and the company just isn't liable. The onus is on the copyright holder to DMCA the parent company to remove the offending content.

And as for paying someone to evaluate material, many other games do it just fine. If a company doesn't wish to add another revenue stream withing their F2P game I'd question their business sense.

[Sandpit]

Ghogiel, on 19 September 2014 - 07:34 PM, said:

Safe harbour laws and ToS for uploaded images would likely protect them from liability, just like the forum. Loads of games have stolen content put in by users. I've had many assets I have made stolen and even sold by users in secondlife and the company just isn't liable. The onus is on the copyright holder to DMCA the parent company to remove the offending content.

And as for paying someone to evaluate material, many other games do it just fine. If a company doesn't wish to add another revenue stream withing their F2P game I'd question their business sense.

Same here.

What I was suggesting is actually based on SL's model. I pay to upload and then can sell it at whatever price I want

Between DJing and custom tats for avatars I used to make about 600/month usd

[Ghogiel]

Sandpit, on 19 September 2014 - 07:55 PM, said:

Same here.

What I was suggesting is actually based on SL's model. I pay to upload and then can sell it at whatever price I want

Between DJing and custom tats for avatars I used to make about 600/month usd

Ive never played the thing or created content for it. I have found users selling stuff they stole off of me though.

Edited by Ghogiel, 19 September 2014 - 08:03 PM.

[Duke Hector]

KOMMISSAR KITTY, on 19 September 2014 - 04:11 PM, said:

It should be an option only open to guild leaders and only MC. Give them 1 slot for an image with the unit able to upgrade, for MC, extra slots for extra decals. Obviously anyone in the unit has access to unit decals. If they want to step it up a notch, only people with premium time may use unit decals. Even that would be fine.

They won't really get in trouble for someone uploading an image under copyright if they have the methods in place to monitor it and take them down. Again, Archeage states any images under copy right could get you banned and images that shouldn't be in the game will be taken down.

With it being restricted to a unit leader and costing money there will only be so many people uploading images and someone actually having to approve and take a look before passing it isn't a huge task and saves future effort and drama to monitor them without pre-approval. Images are approved twice a week on certain days, for example.

They can make some decent cash off of custom images.

exactly, i see how reason why they wouldn't or couldn't do it i am a GM myself i want my logo on my mech or at least know if i even can or not

[Whatzituyah]

This topic has gotten me interested its not like MechWarrior 4 didn't have this option "Although it did seam more like moding" You basically had to photoshop the image, put it in the right place, and select it in the options BOOM you have your custom decal.

[Dark DeLaurel]

Redshift2k5, on 19 September 2014 - 12:34 PM, said:

Custom images is a legal and technical minefield- including factors like when/how do you load the textures to other players' computers(MWO doesn't have any streaming data and doesn't download any new textures when it loads a map!), if you upload a copywrite protected image to PGI's server they're suddenly liable, are you going to pay someone to manually look at all the images to evaluate for legal and politically-correct material, etc

worked very well for MW4, cant remember how lol but it did work. None of it was controlled by Microsoft, just dropped them in the /decals/ folder if i remembered right, then selected it in game.

[Thorn Hallis]

Dark DeLaurel, on 21 September 2014 - 01:40 AM, said:

worked very well for MW4, cant remember how lol but it did work. None of it was controlled by Microsoft, just dropped them in the /decals/ folder if i remembered right, then selected it in game.

Because the decals weren't stored on Microsoft servers. They were saved on the players computers, so MS was out of trouble (plus the technical restrictions to player decals were so limiting you could hardly see anything).