268 replies to this topic

[PANZERBUNNY]

Thariel, on 23 June 2012 - 05:25 AM, said:

As we all know there's hardpoints for weapons and these are limited by numbers, not weight, like 1 Slot energy-weapon can be re-equipped with just one e-weapon, no matter what kind (if the tonnage and max-crits fit).

first i'd like to have this more strictly. like not just energy-slot but Laser-slots, PPC-slots, AC-slots, Gauss-Slots etc.

So you can change your PPC for the ER-Variant , but not for lasers.

Same goes with this: (From the dev-Corner-thread Q& A no. 5)
[b]

I hope this gets changed so the engine can't be altered at all, armor can be upgraded only and only a little and no further heatsinks can be added, no change from normal to endo- structure, normal to ferro-fibrus armour, normal to xxl engine.


Why do i want it this way? Well if we can change whatever we want, what's the use of different mechs. I chose the speed i want, take a mech builder programm, find out what weight gives me most free tonnage for my desired speed and buy that mech and then just rebuild it.

Example:
I want to play a warhammer? Sure, but why stick with it, I need 4/6 movement (tabletop). So with a xxl reactor, a 95 ton mech gives me the most free tonnage. So I can take any 95 ton mech, boost it to 4/6 speed, pick one of the dozens of variants that has 2 e-slots in the arms, put the ppc's in, add 2 med lasers srm6 and a machine gun, add a huge amount of double heatsinks and have still about 10 tons left, means I have an even better warhammer with way more armour, way more heatsinks and room for another ppc+ heatsinks at no disadvantage (this doesn't even include ferro-fibrus or endo steel, with both I have more than 15 tons free).

If we do so, why do we need lots of different mechs. One of the fun parts of battletech is having lots and lots of different mechs. If I could change 1 mech into whatever I need atm, I lose one major part of the game.


Would like to hear you unbiased ("I want want want want to play MY build") opinions on that.

I'm assuming you have no idea how mechlab works and are just working off of speculation.

You're asking to make it so engines can't be changed, but have no idea what effects engines have on your mech?

Seeing too many of these threads.

[grimzod]

Thariel, on 23 June 2012 - 05:25 AM, said:

As we all know there's hardpoints for weapons and these are limited by numbers, not weight, like 1 Slot energy-weapon can be re-equipped with just one e-weapon, no matter what kind (if the tonnage and max-crits fit).

first i'd like to have this more strictly. like not just energy-slot but Laser-slots, PPC-slots, AC-slots, Gauss-Slots etc.

So you can change your PPC for the ER-Variant , but not for lasers.

Same goes with this: (From the dev-Corner-thread Q& A no. 5)
[b]

I hope this gets changed so the engine can't be altered at all, armor can be upgraded only and only a little and no further heatsinks can be added, no change from normal to endo- structure, normal to ferro-fibrus armour, normal to xxl engine.


Why do i want it this way? Well if we can change whatever we want, what's the use of different mechs. I chose the speed i want, take a mech builder programm, find out what weight gives me most free tonnage for my desired speed and buy that mech and then just rebuild it.

Example:
I want to play a warhammer? Sure, but why stick with it, I need 4/6 movement (tabletop). So with a xxl reactor, a 95 ton mech gives me the most free tonnage. So I can take any 95 ton mech, boost it to 4/6 speed, pick one of the dozens of variants that has 2 e-slots in the arms, put the ppc's in, add 2 med lasers srm6 and a machine gun, add a huge amount of double heatsinks and have still about 10 tons left, means I have an even better warhammer with way more armour, way more heatsinks and room for another ppc+ heatsinks at no disadvantage (this doesn't even include ferro-fibrus or endo steel, with both I have more than 15 tons free).

If we do so, why do we need lots of different mechs. One of the fun parts of battletech is having lots and lots of different mechs. If I could change 1 mech into whatever I need atm, I lose one major part of the game.


Would like to hear you unbiased ("I want want want want to play MY build") opinions on that.

For one, some subtle differences between mechs do exist:

• Number of hardpoints and their location.
  
• Torso twist speed.
  
• Tonnage/Space for weapons and equipment.
  
• Hand and lower arm actuators are not removable, hence no making an atlas with rear flippable arms.

So if I want my Locust Omega with a 15/23 run/walk (236kph max speed) I need to get a Locust chassis and a 300xl vlar engine, add a medium laser a thin coatin gof armor and voila! Speedy perfection.

I can't do that with an Atlas chassis. This is why there will be more than one mech type. The Locust isn't a platform for heavy combat either. Even if I wanted to put twelve machine guns or small lasers on it the hardpoint system prevents that (Also another reason for multiple chassis).

Edited by grimzod, 23 June 2012 - 06:11 AM.

[Loki Farseer]

OpCentar, on 23 June 2012 - 05:47 AM, said:

People will always find the best mathemathical builds no matter what restricitons you place on them.


Now they will find the best variant per weapon category, change that to weapon types - no difference except you will reduce the number of variants played.

Why? because now you have a mech which can have variants effective in multiple weapon categories - IE one variant balistic build, another energy etc etc. If you further restrict that to particular weapon type then some of those variants may become useless.

But that's the point.... fine they get an Atlas and Min/Max it so they can get Max DPS with Max armor and speed. So what. You can use that build also, or better yet (and what I will do) figure out the weaknesses and eat it that way. There is no such thing as the "Perfect Build"... doesn't exist. All builds will have weaknesses and that's where player skill and team play come in.

[Phasics]

Loki Farseer, on 23 June 2012 - 06:11 AM, said:

But that's the point.... fine they get an Atlas and Min/Max it so they can get Max DPS with Max armor and speed. So what. You can use that build also, or better yet (and what I will do) figure out the weaknesses and eat it that way. There is no such thing as the "Perfect Build"... doesn't exist. All builds will have weaknesses and that's where player skill and team play come in.

plus perfect builds lead to perfect counter builds

[KeeperVS]

Please no.

It would just limit the game too much and would lead to the same (or about the same) kinds of battles all the time.

[grimzod]

No matter their build you can still core his rear torso when he's looking somewhere else.

[Braedin]

Thariel, on 23 June 2012 - 05:25 AM, said:

As we all know there's hardpoints for weapons and these are limited by numbers, not weight, like 1 Slot energy-weapon can be re-equipped with just one e-weapon, no matter what kind (if the tonnage and max-crits fit).

first i'd like to have this more strictly. like not just energy-slot but Laser-slots, PPC-slots, AC-slots, Gauss-Slots etc.

So you can change your PPC for the ER-Variant , but not for lasers.

Same goes with this: (From the dev-Corner-thread Q& A no. 5)
[b]

I hope this gets changed so the engine can't be altered at all, armor can be upgraded only and only a little and no further heatsinks can be added, no change from normal to endo- structure, normal to ferro-fibrus armour, normal to xxl engine.


Why do i want it this way? Well if we can change whatever we want, what's the use of different mechs. I chose the speed i want, take a mech builder programm, find out what weight gives me most free tonnage for my desired speed and buy that mech and then just rebuild it.

Example:
I want to play a warhammer? Sure, but why stick with it, I need 4/6 movement (tabletop). So with a xxl reactor, a 95 ton mech gives me the most free tonnage. So I can take any 95 ton mech, boost it to 4/6 speed, pick one of the dozens of variants that has 2 e-slots in the arms, put the ppc's in, add 2 med lasers srm6 and a machine gun, add a huge amount of double heatsinks and have still about 10 tons left, means I have an even better warhammer with way more armour, way more heatsinks and room for another ppc+ heatsinks at no disadvantage (this doesn't even include ferro-fibrus or endo steel, with both I have more than 15 tons free).

If we do so, why do we need lots of different mechs. One of the fun parts of battletech is having lots and lots of different mechs. If I could change 1 mech into whatever I need atm, I lose one major part of the game.


Would like to hear you unbiased ("I want want want want to play MY build") opinions on that.

you forgot 1 very important part of your discussion. upgrading using xl engines or ff armor or endo structures eat up most of your internal structures so you wont have alot of places for weapons.

[Coolant]

Customizing mechs, playing around in the mechlab = flat out fun. Spent as much time in the Mechlab with my lab coat and then my overalls as I did on the battlefield in Mercs...

[Phasics]

maybe we could have more rigid rules about forum posts

[Braedin]

Gorith, on 23 June 2012 - 05:42 AM, said:

He could slap on more armor, increase ammo count, maybe ad JJs.

Though OP this has been debated to death (go digging in the suggestions forum you will find PLENTY) Some people want 100% no limitations, Some want what is described ot be in place now, and others like myself feel the game would be better if everyone were forced to use stock only mechs... Regardless this topic is not a dead cow it's a pile of fleshy pulp

if you use stock only mechs, i guarantee there will be a huge amount of mechs that never get used. however you allow the mechbay and changes those mechs with just a few changes will get used.

[Oppi]

Thariel, on 23 June 2012 - 05:25 AM, said:

If we do so, why do we need lots of different mechs. One of the fun parts of battletech is having lots and lots of different mechs. If I could change 1 mech into whatever I need atm, I lose one major part of the game.

Exactly my opinion, but I hope you're prepared for the sh*tstorm, because the min/maxers are the majority around here (or so it seems)

Quote

if you use stock only mechs, i guarantee there will be a huge amount of mechs that never get used. however you allow the mechbay and changes those mechs with just a few changes will get used.

why should they ? If I own 50 ton mech A, why would I buy 50 ton mech B that plays differently in the stock variant if I can just rip everything out of A and rebuild it to mirror mech B ?
Booooooooriiiiiiing

Edited by Oppi, 23 June 2012 - 06:27 AM.

[VX Seraphin]

i miss my avatar gun boat....

[BlackMoore]

Play the game before you pass judgment on it. You don't know all the plusses and minuses of a custom build in this game.

[Braedin]

Oppi, on 23 June 2012 - 06:24 AM, said:

Exactly my opinion, but I hope you're prepared for the sh*tstorm, because the min/maxers are the majority around here (or so it seems)




why should they ? If I own 50 ton mech A, why would I buy 50 ton mech B that plays differently in the stock variant if I can just rip everything out of A and rebuild it to mirror mech B ?
Booooooooriiiiiiing

also the esthetics. people like the look of their mech. some of the best looking mech had the crappiest weapon configs.

[KailKromier]

Oppi, on 23 June 2012 - 06:24 AM, said:

Exactly my opinion, but I hope you're prepared for the sh*tstorm, because the min/maxers are the majority around here (or so it seems)




why should they ? If I own 50 ton mech A, why would I buy 50 ton mech B that plays differently in the stock variant if I can just rip everything out of A and rebuild it to mirror mech B ?
Booooooooriiiiiiing

Because that Mech A might only have a dinky little AMS system, while Mech B might have an LAMS, ECM, and a little less armor. Mech A might not be able to have those attached either hehe

[Fl3tcher]

I have this gut feeling that Omnis will be like the Omnis in the later MW games. . 1 maybe 2 omni slots and lots of regular hardpoints. . You can already swap the loadout of an IS mech for a totally different set of weapons in the MechBay (Lasers for a PPC, LRMs for SRMs Smaller ACs for Bigger ACs). . isn't that what the Omni mechs supposed to be for?

Example:
Timber Wolf Prime Lasers and LRMs,
Timber Wolf A, PPC, Lasers, SRM

With the mech bay you could do that to any mech with laser and missile hardpoints

Mechbay? making Omnimechs out of anything?

(yeah, I know the B/C varients use AC and Gauss but that's what the omni slot is for )

[Joat]

ballence comes to mind here....

haveing stock set ups with stock Variants gives players a reason to get through the trees and getting new mechs.I agree we should have SOME abilty to change the mech around i.e change out weapons for clan ones (when the clans come into play) and maby stripping out armor/heat sinks/ammo for more or less of the same.

each mech was put together to do a job...just like tanks,planes,and whatever.Join the army and then ask your comanding officer if you can change out the issued gun for something els cause you like it better.....unless your in some type of special forces you get the M16 and have to be happy with it.Even in the lore (if my memory servs me right) only the filthy ritch and higher ranks had custom mechs and they took a lot time and money to build.

[Mason Storm]

Just make engineered changes (engines, weapon group types, heat sinks) cost a whole lost more as you are paying a bit for re-engineering. Heck have it a huge over time cost and when it'd done you can use it and sell the design on the market to make C-Bills off of it. I do not believe things should be unrestricted otherwise everything is an Omni-mech and that breaks canon way too much for me.

[Zolaz]

Probably easier to code the way it is.

[BLeeD]

Freaking table toppers. Its a video game, this is made for mass appeal not a small % of the population of table top players. We understand you love the game and want it to be whats written in the game manual but this game has evolved. Its going to be a semi persistent or persistent universe. Try it before you start bashing it please.

I hate the haters,

raging , , im out