42 replies to this topic

[Quxudica]

Carrioncrows, on 19 September 2014 - 09:18 PM, said:

You are very wrong there sir.

It doesn't matter what mech you are in, If you are legged it is a death sentence. Period.

I regularly leg heavy mechs, then I leave him because they are not in the fight anymore, they are not an issue.

This is what I hope to fix.

Losing both legs isn't a death in tabletop, why should it be in MWO? As mentioned you don't lose legs in MWO, they only get ruined. They don't pop off, they don't blow up, they just stop working as effectively.

What I am advocating is something called game balance. (Read my signature)

This is just one of those instances where curbing the negative feelings and hatred is well worth stretching the Battletech rules a bit. Because the benefit is a net gain for everyone.

I disagree, long range mechs are still an ample threat if they are in the right position. meanwhile I've killed mechs in close range combat via legging that, with this model, could have continued to deal damage and maybe even managed to kill teammates or me. Sure a mech stuck at 15 kph is effectively out of the fight if it's in a bad situation or out of range, but there are still enough situations that this system could leave an ample enough threat that I personally think it's unwarranted.

If they are "effectively dead" while fully legged at 15 kph, just let them be dead.

[Carrioncrows]

Quxudica, on 19 September 2014 - 09:34 PM, said:

I disagree, long range mechs are still an ample threat if they are in the right position. meanwhile I've killed mechs in close range combat via legging that, with this model, could have continued to deal damage and maybe even managed to kill teammates or me. Sure a mech stuck at 15 kph is effectively out of the fight if it's in a bad situation or out of range, but there are still enough situations that this system could leave an ample enough threat that I personally think it's unwarranted.

If they are "effectively dead" while fully legged at 15 kph, just let them be dead.

No.

Reason? Because extending out the time to kill is a Good thing.

We don't regenerate armor, we don't regenerate hit points. Once it's gone it's gone.

One of the key selling points of the battletech universe was the whole mech losing an arm or a leg and like chopping a piece of wood things would come flying off and it would still be able to fight.

So advocating for the above IS why I wanted the changes put in. Now I agree the eavier the mech the more deadlier it is and even when legged can still put up a serious fight. But that doesn't change the fact that getting legged is stupidely overpowered for a FPS game.

If legs were allowed to take twice the armor they have now, I would be fine with it. But they are not. And the one mech that feels this particular nerf more than any other mech is the light mech. But that doesn't mean that mediums, heavies and assaults don't suffer from it as well.

I would prefer a balanced and fun game, that is achieved by following the rules to the letter (like Nathan suggested) having mechs fallover and cross around propping themselves up. Or taking my hybrid version.

But certainly none of this wreck a leg and it's over situation we have now.

[Deathlike]

Flying Blind, on 19 September 2014 - 07:16 PM, said:

Actually he may have a bug, my son ran into this the other day: he was in an ember, got legged and could only go 15 kph even after we killed the guy who legged him and he was not being shot at all.

so: legged mech not being shot stun locked at 15kph.

When the game "thinks" the mech is still taking damage, it can be perma-stuck @ 15kph until something else happens.. which usually involves death.

It's a long standing/running bug that has happened for at least as long as the slowdown was added in.

The "slow/stun lock" effect of this behavior is the really annoying, regardless and does actually lower TTK for obvious reasons.

[Pika]

What's supposed to happen is your speed drops to whatever numbers (Cannot remember them atm!) and then slowly improves to 50% of your speed over a period of about 5-10 seconds or so? At that point you should be moving at half throttle. Unless they've changed it again.

[ExoForce]

I can confirm this bug and it started *recently*. (I think like 2 months ago).
You are pemanently stucked on 15 kph.
Although, in my personal expirience it is mostly map dependant
(Forest colony and Terra Therma is notorius in this bug, at least for me).
Could be game code issue (stopped by a small rock, then legged). Wild guess..

So user Deathlike is right in description, only Ive noticed it more recently.

Edited by ExoForce, 19 September 2014 - 10:20 PM.

[NKAc Street]

Not a bug PGI caved to noobs crying that legged mechs still killed them,

[Quxudica]

Carrioncrows, on 19 September 2014 - 09:55 PM, said:

No.

Reason? Because extending out the time to kill is a Good thing.

We don't regenerate armor, we don't regenerate hit points. Once it's gone it's gone.

One of the key selling points of the battletech universe was the whole mech losing an arm or a leg and like chopping a piece of wood things would come flying off and it would still be able to fight.

So advocating for the above IS why I wanted the changes put in. Now I agree the eavier the mech the more deadlier it is and even when legged can still put up a serious fight. But that doesn't change the fact that getting legged is stupidely overpowered for a FPS game.

If legs were allowed to take twice the armor they have now, I would be fine with it. But they are not. And the one mech that feels this particular nerf more than any other mech is the light mech. But that doesn't mean that mediums, heavies and assaults don't suffer from it as well.

I would prefer a balanced and fun game, that is achieved by following the rules to the letter (like Nathan suggested) having mechs fallover and cross around propping themselves up. Or taking my hybrid version.

But certainly none of this wreck a leg and it's over situation we have now.

It's possible it'd be worth trying on a test server, but honestly I'd rather see TTK lengthened via other means. change convergence to no longer be universal/pinpoint, lower the heat threshold, add penalties to running hot for extended periods of time etc. encourage using smaller numbers of weapons at a time as the norm.

Sometimes, while I don't think this is at all the solution, just as a thought experiment I wonder what the game would play like if for one week the dev's reduced all damage by 60-75% just as a test.

I agree that TTK is far far too low. I agree that the awesome part of MW games was getting torn up and fighting on in spite of it. With the current state of the game, TTK can be so low in some situations, even 1 v 1, that it's barely any higher than in a game like CoD or CS. I've had a single Alpha obliterate my 2D2's entire side including the shield arm, despite my armor only being light yellow. It's only going to get worse as well as the timeline moves forward.

I rarely feel like I'm in a giant walking tank in MWO, which I think is an inherent problem.

[Carrioncrows]

Quxudica, on 19 September 2014 - 10:22 PM, said:

It's possible it'd be worth trying on a test server, but honestly I'd rather see TTK lengthened via other means. change convergence to no longer be universal/pinpoint, lower the heat threshold, add penalties to running hot for extended periods of time etc. encourage using smaller numbers of weapons at a time as the norm.

Sometimes, while I don't think this is at all the solution, just as a thought experiment I wonder what the game would play like if for one week the dev's reduced all damage by 60-75% just as a test.

I agree that TTK is far far too low. I agree that the awesome part of MW games was getting torn up and fighting on in spite of it. With the current state of the game, TTK can be so low in some situations, even 1 v 1, that it's barely any higher than in a game like CoD or CS. I've had a single Alpha obliterate my 2D2's entire side including the shield arm, despite my armor only being light yellow. It's only going to get worse as well as the timeline moves forward.

I rarely feel like I'm in a giant walking tank in MWO, which I think is an inherent problem.

For mediums, heavies and assaults the TTK isn't bad....it's not great but it isn't too bad (within reason) - I think most of this is the XL syndrome and how good it is over STD, pinpoint and how big CT's are.

Right now the biggest issue with TTK is the fact that that it is 12v12. You could come around in the open and run in to 8 Spider-5V's with 16 medium lasers and you are still going to get worked over.

But for Lights it's even worse specifically because legs are targets first on them.

I think having their speed drop to 15kph for 5 seconds then back up to 50% is a reasonable compromise.

That will make the best way to kill any mech is to go for the CT. And legging just like taking off someone's arm is a way to do that. Where as de-arming someone is a way to limit their offensive power, legging someone is a way to limit the defensive maneuvers. But just like wrecking both arms, wrecking both legs shouldn't be a kill.

I would love to try it on the test server.

Edited by Carrioncrows, 19 September 2014 - 10:42 PM.

[ExoForce]

If You will test it, also try it with Hill Climb Module mounted . On lights first.

[Remarius]

Carrioncrows, on 19 September 2014 - 09:18 PM, said:

You are very wrong there sir.

It doesn't matter what mech you are in, If you are legged it is a death sentence. Period.

I regularly leg heavy mechs, then I leave him because they are not in the fight anymore, they are not an issue.

This is what I hope to fix.

Losing both legs isn't a death in tabletop, why should it be in MWO? As mentioned you don't lose legs in MWO, they only get ruined. They don't pop off, they don't blow up, they just stop working as effectively.

What I am advocating is something called game balance. (Read my signature)

This is just one of those instances where curbing the negative feelings and hatred is well worth stretching the Battletech rules a bit. Because the benefit is a net gain for everyone.

All I can see is a lot of players trying to invalidate lights even more. Its bad enough that only a handful of lights are competitive as it is.

If you loathe being legged so much then perhaps you should kill the light before they do it or not run off solo?

[ExoForce]

Not a single peace of mech don't pop off or don't blow up in this game never.

You can see that if You spectate a dead mech as a spectator. Especially on Therma with dark backround...

[r4plez]

working as intended

[Carrioncrows]

Remarius, on 19 September 2014 - 10:55 PM, said:

All I can see is a lot of players trying to invalidate lights even more. Its bad enough that only a handful of lights are competitive as it is.

If you loathe being legged so much then perhaps you should kill the light before they do it or not run off solo?

Sir, I think you misunderstood what was being said.

I am arguing "FOR" light pilots, because they are legged 90% of the time and it is a death sentence. I am not trying to invalidate lights, I am trying to make them more survivable.

[jaxjace]

This issue is with all mechs, it doesnt matter how fast im going, 150 or 50 its all 15 kph when before it was at least 40. seriously WHAT gives?

[Lefty Lucy]

It's an attempt to replicate how vulnerable legged mechs are in TT in a game that doesn't have falling mechanics.

In TT if you lose a leg and you take appreciable fire, you almost always fall.

[Cyborne Elemental]

This isn't COUNTERSTRIKE, you do not need to be stunned after already being crippled.

It also makes the Module "speed retention" a 6,000,000 CB investment in pointlessness

We really don't have the extra module slots to really make "SRet" worthwhile to carry over any other MECH mod anyway, especially if that module isn't eliminating the 15kph low cap completely.

[Flying Blind]

I know how the leg damage mechanic works. my son got legged on Alpine while fighting two mechs that charged us. we killed them after they took his leg off then it was several minutes before we fought the rest of their team. he was stuck at 15 kph for several minutes while taking no damage from anyone or anything. we tried centering torso to legs and coming to a full stop the starting up again. stuck at 15. Yes there is a bug.

[Bishop Steiner]

Arnold J Rimmer, on 19 September 2014 - 06:37 PM, said:

That's... not a bug. If you get legged, your speed is capped at 50% or 40kph, whichever the slower. If you take a hit, it drops to 15kph.

Yes, because stun lock makes so much more sense. Like a legged mech isn't screwed enough, without people being able to pepper you with Chainfired LRMs or ac2s or even bloody MG to ensure you cannot retreat before you die?

[jaxjace]

Bishop Steiner, on 20 September 2014 - 08:51 AM, said:

Yes, because stun lock makes so much more sense. Like a legged mech isn't screwed enough, without people being able to pepper you with Chainfired LRMs or ac2s or even bloody MG to ensure you cannot retreat before you die?

Its not right i tells you!

[divinedisclaimer]

Flying Blind, on 19 September 2014 - 07:16 PM, said:

Actually he may have a bug, my son ran into this the other day: he was in an ember, got legged and could only go 15 kph even after we killed the guy who legged him and he was not being shot at all.

so: legged mech not being shot stun locked at 15kph.

He was double legged.