337 replies to this topic

[Ghostwolfe]

Whether it is the boardgame or this verison, if you can get 12 mechs to fire on a single target it should go down.

In solo drops I keep seeing players try and charge forward like they are some kind of hero, or players not have enough experience to use the terrain to help shield them from damage. They just run out there and expect to stand still long enough to get a few kills. Instead they are the one killed and rightfully so. One would hope they learn to play better instead of whining for more armor.

Sheesh I had one enemy player in a fresh atlas ***** me out in game after he shut down and I walked up to him and popped him in his left eye (headshot). Its called practice.

I'd like to offer a new saying that can be made into a bumper sticker or T-shirt. Russ you can have the rights to it if you give me a Mad dog package.

" No amount of armor can protect the stupid or unlucky "

[kapusta11]

TT:
Mech have 200 armor
gets shot by AC20
all damage placed to one location
HP goes down to 90%

MWO:
Mech have 400 armor
gets shot by AC20
all damage placed to one location
HP goes down to 95%
TT equivalent - 40 pinpoint damage

TT:
Mech have 150 armor
gets shot by 2xGauss
damage placed on two locations, with luck still one
HP goes down to 80%

MWO:
Mech have 300 armor
gets shot by 2xGauss
all damage placed to one location
HP goes down to 90%
TT equivalent - 2 separate shots 30 damage each (hello quad gauss Dire wolf), all pinpoint, with luck 60 damage to 1 location.

Mechs in MWO are still more durable than in TT, even if you account lack of hits allocation.

I don't see an Issue here, but increasing armor is still better than nerfing individual weapons (Gausses, PPCs, ACs) or mechs that have enough tonnage/hardpoints to field them (Victor/Highlander) just because COMBINATION appears to be more powerful than someone expected to.

Edited by kapusta11, 19 September 2014 - 10:55 PM.

[Reitrix]

kapusta11, on 19 September 2014 - 10:43 PM, said:

TT:
Mech have 200 armor
gets shot by AC20
all damage placed to one location
HP goes down to 90%

MWO:
Mech have 400 armor
gets shot by AC20
all damage placed to one location
HP goes down to 95%
TT equivalent - 40 pinpoint damage

TT:
Mech have 150 armor
gets shot by 2xGauss
damage placed on two locations, with luck still one
HP goes down to 80%

MWO:
Mech have 300 armor
gets shot by 2xGauss
all damage placed to one location
HP goes down to 90%
TT equivalent - 2 separate shots 30 damage each (hello quad gauss Dire wolf), all pinpoint, with luck 60 damage to 1 location.

Mechs in MWO are still more durable than in TT, even if you account lack of hits allocation.

I don't see an Issue here, but increasing armor is still better than nerfing individual weapons (Gausses, PPCs, ACs) or mechs that have enough tonnage/hardpoints to field them (Victor/Highlander) just because COMBINATION appears to be more powerful than someone expected to.

Each weapon on its own is actually fairly balanced for what they do. You're right to say that its only in combination that weapons break balance.

I wont call it the easiest fix, but the only real solution is alter the way multiple weapon groups converge instantly on a single pixel from up to 4 different hardpoint locations on the 'Mech.

[Quxudica]

Sable, on 19 September 2014 - 08:05 PM, said:

Title says it all. The spike damage nonsense wouldn't be such a problem if it took a whole lot more effort to bring down a mech. Heat management skills would be more valuable since you wouldn't be able to alpha all day long. Maybe it's just tonight but MWO is not fun right now.

This is really only a bandaid for the problems caused by convergence and the heat system.

Quote

Mechs in MWO are still more durable than in TT, even if you account lack of hits allocation.

I don't see an Issue here, but increasing armor is still better than nerfing individual weapons (Gausses, PPCs, ACs) or mechs that have enough tonnage/hardpoints to field them (Victor/Highlander) just because COMBINATION appears to be more powerful than someone expected to.

I'd argue the difference is that TT is a turn based strategy game in which you play out using multiple mechs and vehicles, MWO on the other hand is a real time FPS with one life per round. It's more acceptable in TT for mechs to be pretty fragile, while even discounting the Alpha centric gameplay and pinpoint damage issues MWO just needs a higher TTK to fit its genre.

Edited by Quxudica, 19 September 2014 - 11:28 PM.

[eblackthorn]

increasing armor is only going to further marginalize both light and medium mechs. I hope another solution is found.

[Sadist Cain]

Russ Bullock, on 19 September 2014 - 10:11 PM, said:

It is a scenario that could be likely. However we are getting close to releasing the full IS Quirk pass and it will put some more armor and Internals on mechs in the right places so I need to see how that plays first. I am hoping we can accomplish it this way instead of a blanket increase.

Classy move, Will be nice to see the IS mechs not being dropped so fast via their achilles heel

[RavensScar]

With the game as it is now, I'd favour just giving every 'mech a blanket +10 hp to all internals (maybe head as an exception.)

It's only a marginal improvement for assault 'mechs, and I think that's fine. Most of the time, they're tough enough as it is, and it takes sustained fire to put them down.

It would do wonders for light and medium 'mechs. Hell, it might even make the Locust almost viable.

Simply doubling everything buffs heavies and assaults far more than lights and mediums. The game is already dominated by the top weight classes. What's needed is something that stops lights and meds from being splattered the moment anything so much as looks at them.

[Darzok]

The fact we can boat for stupid spike is the problem not armor.

This change will do one thing force more people to build for spike damage and so you will be back to make another topic to buff HP again and again.

I think hardpoint size should be added would help remove the spike builds but has a danger of making the meta become even more about 1 type of mech for each type.

That and some light mechs will become more OP when running around with the stupid Hit reg that allows them to just not take any damage alot of the time.

Edited by Darzok, 20 September 2014 - 12:15 AM.

[Alex Gorsky]

The brilliant idea, and Spider foot will maintain 2 hits from ac20...that BT? If you consider mech are destroyed too quickly, just lower dps of weapon, having increased cooldown. It also by the way will give the chance to manage to use more weapon croup.

Edited by Alex Gorsky, 20 September 2014 - 12:15 AM.

[Chronojam]

Hey, so I'm going to quote myself from August 2013 if that's okay with you all.

Quote

Question from Chronojam: Are there any plans to increase internal health to capture that stubborn resilience we're told mechs have, to capture the feel of wrangling a giant war machine as various weapons and support systems shut down over time, to diminish the impact of the high-alpha long-range dominance over short range builds, to reduce the odds of a lucky snap-shot or bad maneuver insta-killing lighter mechs, and ultimately to increase time to kill so we feel we're playing a mech sim where strategy and maneuvers (plus a commander's quick decision-making) matter more?

Answer from Paul: We currently have the ability to do this on a global scale (i.e. all Mechs are affected by the same multiplier.) However, it wouldn’t be pertinent to set this number yet as we are still waiting on HSR improvements. Depending on the amount of time HSR fixes will require, we MAY bump IS health by a small percentage to hold us over until the majority of HSR issues are dealt with. We are going to be looking at this on 2 levels. We need to make sure we don’t end up with a bunch of Mechs running around with no weapons/ammo and we need to make sure we don’t make the armor destruction time shorter than the IS destruction time.

[Elizander]

Russ Bullock, on 19 September 2014 - 10:11 PM, said:

It is a scenario that could be likely. However we are getting close to releasing the full IS Quirk pass and it will put some more armor and Internals on mechs in the right places so I need to see how that plays first. I am hoping we can accomplish it this way instead of a blanket increase.

I don't think people will behave any differently with double armor. I do prefer the current time each game lasts. Doubling the time with the same result wouldn't be productive for anyone. People who die out in the open to LRMs or pretend that they can actually climb a hill, snipe and get back down without getting shot in a Dire Wolf will still die to the same thing.

Maybe consider having internal/armor modifiers per game mode in the future and test it out on live by making it available to 12 man groups who know how to focus fire. Just put a warning for casualscrubs like me so that we don't select that option. It'll save you time convincing people to hop onto the test server.

Edited by Elizander, 20 September 2014 - 12:27 AM.

[Duke Nedo]

Please, not more hp! It sounds good at first, but when you think about it it only reduces the skill part and increases the absolute need for focused fire to kill anything at all. Deathballing will be more important and flanking less efficient...

[jaxjace]

Only if they remove GOD DAMN GHOST HEAT!

[Grey Ghost]

Dark DeLaurel, on 19 September 2014 - 10:29 PM, said:

It sure would be nice to have my eye glow again on demand in my Founders Atlas.

Again? I only remember the standard variants having the glowing eyes, not the AS7-D(F).

[PANZERKAT]

Game was more fun when the mechs were alive longer and you could actually attempt flanks and probing, scouting without getting smashed so early. It's exceptionally risky for mechs to do any kind of real maneuvering if they aren't in force. ie. Your entire team.

[Khobai]

Quote

Game was more fun when the mechs were alive longer and you could actually attempt flanks and probing, scouting without getting smashed so early. It's exceptionally risky for mechs to do any kind of real maneuvering if they aren't in force. ie. Your entire team.

I agree. However the main problem is deathballing and focus fire in 12v12. The gamemodes dont really require teams to split up enough. Plus some of the maps, like river city, are just way too small for 12v12.

But since increasing internal structure is an easier fix than adding new gamemodes/enlarging maps, I think thats likely what will end up happening.

[Dark DeLaurel]

Grey Ghost, on 20 September 2014 - 01:39 AM, said:

Again? I only remember the standard variants having the glowing eyes, not the AS7-D(F).

Pretty sure it was only the (F) but who knows anymore that seems like a lifetime ago and i cant really remember lol.

[PANZERKAT]

Increase internal structure. Increase critical effects on mechs. That would seem like a good trade off.

[YueFei]

I don't really see it as an issue with mech armor/health.

I think it's more a problem with the hitboxes.

Some mechs are incredibly tanky even in the current environment, as long as the pilot shields well. And uses terrain vertically to only expose from the waist-up, to protect the legs.

Carrioncrows had the right idea, man.

[EvilCow]

Increasing armor even more would turn this game in a predictable dumb brawl and kill any other option. There would be no punishment for errors.

Oh look, 3 Atlases in front of me, better shot two or three times then go away.