337 replies to this topic

[Kirkland Langue]

KOMMISSAR KITTY, on 20 September 2014 - 09:06 AM, said:

CCP should buy this game from them. Then we'd have a real Battletech game.

There wouldn't be any reason to buy this game - they already have DUST which fills the FPS niche. If they were interested in going the Mech route, they could just modify DUST to go that way. The problem with DUST is that it has no potential to be anything other than a FPS arena.

Imagine what would happen to MWO if PGI were to announce that CW was taken off the table. Everyone would stop and realize that as far as FPS games go, MWO is pretty boring and buggy.

CCP would never be able to develop CW for MWO simply because it would then have too much overlap with EVE. What they really need to do is integrate DUST into EVE so that you could have boarding parties and starbase raids - with DUST players being for hire mercenaries which join up with EVE players on those raids. EVE players would have most of their skills on spaceship stuff, meaning the DUST players would be stronger in the FPS battles, giving an incentive to hire those mercs.

Of course most of that has more to do with EVE/DUST and not with MWO - but MWO could benefit by looking at EVE/DUST and trying to figure out what keeps players playing for years.

[Bishop Steiner]

Sable, on 19 September 2014 - 08:05 PM, said:

Title says it all. The spike damage nonsense wouldn't be such a problem if it took a whole lot more effort to bring down a mech. Heat management skills would be more valuable since you wouldn't be able to alpha all day long. Maybe it's just tonight but MWO is not fun right now.

NO.

Bloody heck. Everyone wants Papercut Warrior online.


How about we simply equip every mech with a single Small Laser. That should increase TTK, even for those using a Steering Wheel.

[FupDup]

Bishop Steiner, on 20 September 2014 - 09:38 AM, said:

NO.

Bloody heck. Everyone wants Papercut Warrior online.


How about we simply equip every mech with a single Small Laser. That should increase TTK, even for those using a Steering Wheel.

[Wolfways]

Sable, on 20 September 2014 - 06:01 AM, said:

Wow go to bed and Russ responds to my thread.

I brought up the increased armor and hp idea because it had been mentioned before. The quirk for 10% extra armor on the hunchback sounds nice but when you think about it that's only 5 extra points. One medium laser's worth of extra armor. Every little bit helps but is it enough to be noticeable?

I was a little frustrated last night because i was puging a lot of games in my Timberwolf and most teams still seem to be afraid to step out of cover, the few times i did to try and spot the team i would almost instantly have red armor on half my mech. Was just a thought but if mechs could take a bigger beating maybe people would be willing to engage more openly.

Using cover is the sensible thing to do. Having more armour won't change that.

[Pika]

KOMMISSAR KITTY, on 20 September 2014 - 09:06 AM, said:

CCP should buy this game from them. Then we'd have a real Battletech game.

Good lord, no. Have you seen what they did to Dust and how fast they're running EVE into the ground?

You let the special kids ride the special bus. You don't let them drive it.

[Wolfways]

wanderer, on 20 September 2014 - 07:27 AM, said:

Heck, in TT Gauss rifles had the longest recharge time in the game (along with PPCs...go figure!).

What do you mean? TT was every weapon can fire once every 10 seconds. There were no recharge times AFAIK...unless you mean Mechwarrior and not BattleTech?

[Bishop Steiner]

Wolfways, on 20 September 2014 - 09:54 AM, said:

What do you mean? TT was every weapon can fire once every 10 seconds. There were no recharge times AFAIK...unless you mean Mechwarrior and not BattleTech?

Solaris Dueling Rules, mebbe?

[Bishop Steiner]

Russ Bullock, on 19 September 2014 - 10:11 PM, said:

It is a scenario that could be likely. However we are getting close to releasing the full IS Quirk pass and it will put some more armor and Internals on mechs in the right places so I need to see how that plays first. I am hoping we can accomplish it this way instead of a blanket increase.

Please Russ, whatever you do, don't go with redoubling Armor. Seriously. Before you do that, revisit sized hardpoints or something, before we totally lose the flavor of Battltech. Boating, and pinpoint, instant multi-weapon convergence, are the reasons for short TTK. (and lots of bad play).

Adding MORE armor only punishes mechs like the HBK and such, which were supposed to be feared because of their big gun.... But having to fire that single big gun 10 times to get through the armor of a Jenner?

Ridiculous. I get people getting upset about having their mech cored by 2 Gauss/2 PPC, etc. But unlike the Ghost Heat and "Poptart" Fixes, can we stop Blaming Johnny for Timmy's actions and actually address the actual core of the issue? Before this becomes Mech Assault...or worse....a slow Hawken?

Please?

[Wolfways]

KOMMISSAR KITTY, on 20 September 2014 - 09:06 AM, said:

CCP should buy this game from them. Then we'd have a real Battletech game.

EVEOnline is the game i had in mind when MWO was being hyped 3 years ago. You'd think I'd learn to lower my expectations by now...especially for a game based on an existing IP.

Warhammer Online: Dead.
Matrix Online: Dead.
Star Wars Galaxies: Crippled and then bled to death.
World of Darkness Online: Canceled. (My favourite IP. I'm so glad CCP canceled it before ruining it )

[Rebas Kradd]

pulupulu, on 19 September 2014 - 08:39 PM, said:

I hope you like energy weapons, because ammunition is going to be a *****.

Good. Welcome to Battletech.

[AdamBaines]

Sable, on 19 September 2014 - 08:05 PM, said:

Title says it all. The spike damage nonsense wouldn't be such a problem if it took a whole lot more effort to bring down a mech. Heat management skills would be more valuable since you wouldn't be able to alpha all day long. Maybe it's just tonight but MWO is not fun right now.

Ummmmmm.....no thanks.

[Rebas Kradd]

Bishop Steiner, on 20 September 2014 - 10:05 AM, said:

Please Russ, whatever you do, don't go with redoubling Armor. Seriously. Before you do that, revisit sized hardpoints or something, before we totally lose the flavor of Battltech. Boating, and pinpoint, instant multi-weapon convergence, are the reasons for short TTK. (and lots of bad play).

And 12v12 on tiny maps. THAT needs to be revisited before anything else.

[EvilCow]

Bishop Steiner, on 20 September 2014 - 10:05 AM, said:

Adding MORE armor only punishes mechs like the HBK and such, which were supposed to be feared because of their big gun.... But having to fire that single big gun 10 times to get through the armor of a Jenner?

That would be nothing, you would first have to go through the netcode shield, I am definitely NOT looking forward to the return of the immortal Jenners and Ravens as seen in the closed beta.

[Bishop Steiner]

Rebas Kradd, on 20 September 2014 - 10:07 AM, said:

Good. Welcome to Battletech.

4x Armor is hardly "welcome to Battletech". Break the perfect multiweapon convergence, and go back to stock ammo, willing to bet we could get by with 1.5x armor, even with higher RoF than in TT.

[101011]

Yes, because I really want my AC/20 to do as much damage as an AC/5 in TT...

[Sadist Cain]

Chronojam, on 20 September 2014 - 12:14 AM, said:

Hey, so I'm going to quote myself from August 2013 if that's okay with you all.

So much of this, things like toggling AMS, ECM, Thermal (Which needs the bubble of view more of a fade out into a blur, not black) and using UAVs etc. just makes me tingle.

Already matches are feeling longer, please gawd let that continue, I want the potential for 10-20 mins of button pushing switch flipping mechy fun

[Rebas Kradd]

Bishop Steiner, on 20 September 2014 - 10:09 AM, said:

Break the perfect multiweapon convergence

I'm sorry to be so blunt, but people need to table this idea. It's not going to happen. It is too sweeping a change. It would completely revamp the landscape of MWO, change the balance of power of EVERY weapon, and undo years' worth of balancing. Not to mention completely remove the ability to target specific components on a mech.

Forcing the entire player base to relearn the game is not something that any designer will do. It would frustrate too many people. Like it or not, I'm willing to bet that we're stuck with the current implementation, and we need to work within it.

I'm all for increasing time-to-kill and making mechs feel resilient, though. Hopefully stronger internals from the new quirk pass will help accomplish this.

Edited by Rebas Kradd, 20 September 2014 - 10:17 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Rebas Kradd, on 20 September 2014 - 10:14 AM, said:

I'm sorry to be so blunt, but people need to move on from this idea. It's not going to happen. It is too sweeping a change. It would completely revamp the landscape of MWO, change the balance of power of EVERY weapon and undo years' worth of balancing.

Forcing the entire player base to relearn the game is not something that any designer will do. It would frustrate too many people. Like it or not, I'm willing to bet that we're stuck with the current implementation, and we need to work within it.

I'm all for increasing time-to-kill and making mechs feel resilient, though. Hopefully stronger internals from the new quirk pass will help accomplish this.

and quadrupling the armor is not a sweeping change? Yeah, the return of Immortal Light MEchs is all this game really needs.

Making ever mech shoot spit wads, or actually FIX the problem. Hunh. Might be worth a refresher course or 5.

The point...when one has to keep reinforcing a mechanic this heavily...it is obviously NOT the right way to go. So instead of constantly forcing a broken mechanic in the hope of fixing it, eventually, common sense says it's time to re-evaluate what actually IS broken, and fix that.

Doubling Armor a second time is proof in itself that it is the wrong path.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 20 September 2014 - 10:23 AM.

[stjobe]

kapusta11, on 20 September 2014 - 07:06 AM, said:

So you two would prefer cone of fire with random spread, so that lucky guy with AC20/Heavy Gauss wins? How would said spread affect laser weapons?

I can't speak for anyone else, but I don't see that having a CoF destroys all skill in other FPS games - some of them are even considered "eSports" (I don't see MWO ever becoming an eSport, and there's a lot of bad decisions made in the name of trying to get it there).

So yes, that's one way to do it. Motion-dependant cone of fire; the faster you move, the larger the cone. Remember, several weapons in MWO already have a cone of fire: MG, Flamer, LBX, SRMs, this would just mean the lasers and ACs also got one if they were moving.

There's other ways of doing it, of course: delayed convergence might be out, but we could force chain-fire by a 0.1 - 0-3 second global cooldown, we could make IS ACs burst-fire and PPCs splash, just like their Clan counterparts.

Lots of ideas have been put forward on how to reduce the impact of our instant pin-point convergence. What's important to remember is that nobody has ever suggested that it should be strictly RNG - that's just a bogey-man that those who for some reason want the current system to stay inevitably come up with, like RNG was anathema to skill. Hint: It's not.

Off the top of my head, here's some of the RNGs in the current MWO:
* Matchmaker (your team if you're PUGging or dropping in less than 12-man groups, as well as the other team)
* Map selection
* Game mode selection unless you only have one selected
* MG, Flamer, LBX, SRM cone of fire
* LRM missile clustering
* Crits by any weapon.
* Ammo explosions

As I said, off the top of my head, I'm sure there's other randomized things in there as well.

RNG is not the devil - and either way, those arguing for a cone of fire wants it to be as determined by skill as possible; just like just about any other FPS out there.

[EvilCow]

Rebas Kradd, on 20 September 2014 - 10:14 AM, said:

Hopefully stronger internals from the new quirk pass will help accomplish this.

They did this in MWLL, it was ridiculous because mechs and vehicles lost their armor quickly and then the internals took more damage and time to destroy than the armor itself.

It lasted the time of one patch.

Rebas Kradd, on 20 September 2014 - 10:14 AM, said:

I'm sorry to be so blunt, but people need to table this idea. It's not going to happen. It is too sweeping a change. It would completely revamp the landscape of MWO, change the balance of power of EVERY weapon, and undo years' worth of balancing. Not to mention completely remove the ability to target specific components on a mech.

Your opinion, not a fact. My opinion is that the current values would be an excellent base for convergence-related changes.