60 replies to this topic

[Bishop Steiner]

In timeline, there are only 4 models extant
-KGC-000
-KGC-000b
-KCG-010
-KGC-0000
(the KGC-001 "Clan Buster" does not arrive til 3052)

So far, due to their essentially extinct nature, within the Inner Sphere, no SLDF Royals Brigade versions have been introduced, likely removing the KGC-000b from the mix.

Leaving us with the: (Hardpoints purely speculation, but seems reasonable that they will be between 6-8 on each model)

-KGC-000 (the original model, from the TRO 2750.)

Internal Structure: Standard
Engine: 300 standard
Max Engine: 360
Speed: 48.6 kph (53.5 ww/ speed tweak)
Max Speed: 58.3 kph (64.2 w/speed tweak)
Armor: 572 (16 tons Ferro-Fibrous w/CASE)
Max Armor: 614
Heat Sinks: 15 SHS
ECM Capable: NO

Weapons and Hardpoints:

Weapons/Equipment:
Right Arm: AC/20
Left Arm: AC/20
Right Torso: Large Laser, AC/20 ammo x1, CASE
Left Torso: LRM/15, LRM/15 ammo x1, AC/20 ammo x1, CASE

Hardpoints:
Right Arm: Ballistic x2?
Left Arm: Ballistic x2?
Right Torso: Energy x1?, AMSx1?
Left Torso: Missile x1?

Just a guess, but since the mech was built around the Autocannons, as it's featured weapons, would say that the hardpoints would also be based around those as the primaries.


-KGC-0000 (the downgraded, Succession War Model from TRO 3039.)

Internal Structure: Standard
Engine: 300 standard
Max Engine: 360
Speed: 48.6 kph (53.5 ww/ speed tweak)
Max Speed: 58.3 kph (64.2 w/speed tweak)
Armor: 544 (17 tons standard)
Max Armor: 614
Heat Sinks: 15 SHS
ECM Capable: NO

Weapons and Hardpoints:

Weapons/Equipment:
Right Arm: AC/20
Left Arm: AC/20
Right Torso: Large Laser, AC/20 ammo x1
Left Torso: LRM/15, LRM/15 ammo x1, AC/20 ammo x1

Hardpoints:
Right Arm: Ballistic x1?
Left Arm: Ballistic x1?
Right Torso: Energy x2? AMS x1?
Left Torso: Missile x2?

The ballistics are still featured, but with no weight saving technology, any modifications during the Succession Wars would most likely feature downgrading the ACs and making more use of the lighter and more flexible Missile and Energy weapons.


-KGC-010 (SLDF Command Model, TRO 3039, though supposedly all of these also joined the Exodus)

Internal Structure: Endo-Steel
Engine: 300 standard
Max Engine: 360
Speed: 48.6 kph (53.5 ww/ speed tweak)
Max Speed: 58.3 kph (64.2 w/speed tweak)
Armor: 608 (Standard w/CASE)
Max Armor: 614
Heat Sinks: 10 DHS
ECM Capable: YES? (Command Mech)

Weapons and Hardpoints:

Weapons/Equipment:
Right Arm: LB-10X, Lower Arm Actuator
Left Arm: LB-10x, Lower Arm Actuator
Right Torso: PPC, SRM6, Ammo (LB-X) x3, Ammo, SRM6 x1, CASE
Left Torso: PPC, SRM6, Ammo (LB-X) x3, Ammo, SRM6 x1, CASE

Hardpoints:
Right Arm: Ballistic x1?
Left Arm: Ballistic x1?
Right Torso: Energy x1, Missile x1?, AMS x 1?
Left Torso: Energy x1, Missile x1, ECM?

Maintains equal number of hardpoints to the other models, with a much more balanced spread. ECM purely speculation based off being a "Command Mech".



Hopefully Alex's arts and PGIs Modelers will keep in mind that the KGC mech is a short, wide, area denial machine. The torso hardpoints should all be high, so as to take advantage of cover and defilade fire. Similarly, I truly hope it's arms are less knuckle dragging than the DireWolf, and as such be able to partly overcome the weight and hardpoint disadvantage it has compared to the DW, with better located weapon mounts and PP-FLD.

Also, note it sounds unlikely that we will see the Split Crit Mechanic introduced, and that being the case, and that Russ says the "claws" will simply be armored, opening covers, like the Catapult, good chance the -000 and -0000 will have neither Lower Arm nor Hand Actuators (though not a guarantee yet), which would be in line with the CPLTs, which have neither, yet have opening covers (and the STK and CN9). If so, that would also make the -010 unique in having significantly better field of fire.

Thoughts?

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 21 September 2014 - 12:46 PM.

[FupDup]

One build I'm theorycrafting is 2 Gauss + 2 LL on whatever variant can carry it, with a STD325 engine. 4 AC/5 + 2 (or more?) ML could also work. If the mech turned out to be XL-friendly, then very very crazy builds would be possible.

Whatever ends up happening, limiting it to just 6 hardpoints might be a good way to balance it against other assaults...it looks to be boaty enough as it is.

[Bishop Steiner]

FupDup, on 20 September 2014 - 08:53 AM, said:

One build I'm theorycrafting is 2 Gauss + 2 LL on whatever variant can carry it, with a STD325 engine. 4 AC/5 + 2 (or more?) ML could also work. If the mech turned out to be XL-friendly, then very very crazy builds would be possible.

Whatever ends up happening, limiting it to just 6 hardpoints might be a good way to balance it against other assaults...it looks to be boaty enough as it is.

Yeah, kind of part of the reasoning I followed. While not OP compared to DW, having dual heavy ballistic does give it a serious advantage over most IS Assaults. Which is also why probably won't see ECM on the -010 model. Other IS Assaults get JJs, or tons of hardpoints, or ECM to balance against it?

If we do indeed get the 010, even though it will probably not be AC20 capable, like the 9K VTR, I think it will be the most capable/versatile. Gauss/PPCs would allow it to compare to the Meta-Whale fairly well.

[mindwarp]

The KGC's defining feature is being autocannon heavy. And that's actually rare for a 3050 assault mech. Most of the assaults in timeline are generalists and carry a bit of everything - especially Atlases. Whatever the hardpoints are, I don't think PGI will (or should) do anything to take the focus off the ballistics slots. I'd imagine every KGC will have at least 4 ballistics slots, but minimal energy/missile. The lasers and missiles on the KGC are purely backup weapons for when your AC is out of ammo, or maybe for some light softening up before the charge.

[Bishop Steiner]

also, edited to correct the weapons on the KGC-010

mindwarp, on 20 September 2014 - 09:03 AM, said:

The KGC's defining feature is being autocannon heavy. And that's actually rare for a 3050 assault mech. Most of the assaults in timeline are generalists and carry a bit of everything - especially Atlases. Whatever the hardpoints are, I don't think PGI will (or should) do anything to take the focus off the ballistics slots. I'd imagine every KGC will have at least 4 ballistics slots, but minimal energy/missile. The lasers and missiles on the KGC are purely backup weapons for when your AC is out of ammo, or maybe for some light softening up before the charge.

Yes, the drawback to that being, without see-sawing the Missiles/Energy vs the Ballistics, you end up with essentially, 3 identical, homogenous chassis.

[Koniving]

Bishop Steiner, on 20 September 2014 - 08:36 AM, said:

In timeline, there are only 4 models extant
-KGC-000
-KGC-000b
-KCG-010
-KGC-0000
(the KGC-001 "Clan Buster" does not arrive til 3052)

So far, due to their essentially extinct nature, within the Inner Sphere, no SLDF Royals Brigade versions have been introduced, likely removing the KGC-000b from the mix.

I suspect the Royals Bridgade version would actually make a very solid "Hero" variant.

Rather than of a specific King Crab pilot, running more in tune with the line up of the X-5.

The X-5 was written out as a prototype that was deemed far too expensive (much to my pleasure reciting repair and rearm costs) to be deemed worthy of mass production. The models they had were eventually sold (thus the hero mech's rarity in terms of you have to actually buy it with cash).

In this case, it would be a collector's restoration of the SLDF Royals Brigade variant for King Crab enthusiasts.
It would obviously need some hardpoint variation and David is known for fluffing hardpoints. Probably an extra hardpoint here or there, or an exchange of one set of fluffed hardpoints from the original 0 model to another set for the B.

Edited by Koniving, 20 September 2014 - 09:11 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Koniving, on 20 September 2014 - 09:09 AM, said:

I suspect the Royals Bridgade version would actually make a very solid "Hero" variant.

Rather than of a specific King Crab pilot, running more in tune with the line up of the X-5.

The X-5 was written out as a prototype that was deemed far too expensive (much to my pleasure reciting repair and rearm costs) to be deemed worthy of mass production. The models they had were eventually sold (thus the hero mech's rarity in terms of you have to actually buy it with cash).

In this case, it would be a collector's restoration of the SLDF Royals Brigade variant for King Crab enthusiasts.

Also follows since the "SIB" Vindicator is also the "SIC" version. Though I would lean toward the Clanbuster as more likely for the Hero, following your reasoning.

[PANZERKAT]

I think we'll have three versions like this.

Ballistics energy missiles 2 2 2
Ballistics energy 4 2
Ballistics. 6

That's my guess.

[Ultimax]

Bishop Steiner, on 20 September 2014 - 09:01 AM, said:

While not OP compared to DW, having dual heavy ballistic does give it a serious

If it gets 4x Ballistics in the arms, the ability to change it's engine size, the ability to take endo - I think you will need to re-consider your reasoning as 4x IS UAC 5s is better than any of the dakka builds the DWF can run.


If there is a variant that can run dual gauss with ECM, any player daring to make another "Clans are OP" thread will need to be punched directly in the groin.

[Bishop Steiner]

KOMMISSAR KITTY, on 20 September 2014 - 09:13 AM, said:

I think we'll have three versions like this.

Ballistics energy missiles 2 2 2
Ballistics energy 4 2
Ballistics. 6

That's my guess.

those don't remotely follow the actually available models.

Ultimatum X, on 20 September 2014 - 09:15 AM, said:

If it gets 4x Ballistics in the arms, the ability to change it's engine size, the ability to take endo - I think you will need to re-consider your reasoning as 4x IS UAC 5s is better than any of the dakka builds the DWF can run.


If there is a variant that can run dual gauss with ECM, any player daring to make another "Clans are OP" thread will need to be punched directly in the groin.

most should be anyhow. Since the reality is basically the Twolf is OP, the rest...not so much.

[Koniving]

Bishop Steiner, on 20 September 2014 - 09:10 AM, said:

Also follows since the "SIB" Vindicator is also the "SIC" version. Though I would lean toward the Clanbuster as more likely for the Hero, following your reasoning.

There is that as well. But the Clan Buster version didn't really have much of a paint job difference. It's a Comstar variant, which is nice, it's also got extra hardpoints which does bode well.

But a Royal Brigade model would really shine with the paint and splendor. I mean it's Royal. Which Battletech units of high regard are known for really lavish paint schemes.

Of the two the Clan Buster 01 would make a good bit of practical sense.
The 0b would make a good bit of fictional splendor.

From a lore standpoint they both make good sense.

[Bishop Steiner]

Koniving, on 20 September 2014 - 09:18 AM, said:

There is that as well. But the Clan Buster version didn't really have much of a paint job difference. It's a Comstar variant, which is nice, it's also got extra hardpoints which does bode well.

But a Royal Brigade model would really shine with the paint and splendor. I mean it's Royal. Which Battletech units of high regard are known for really lavish paint schemes.

Of the two the Clan Buster 01 would make a good bit of practical sense.
The 0b would make a good bit of fictional splendor.

From a lore standpoint they both make good sense.

Well, if they release the 0B, i might have to name mine GYN.

Also, stock, those Clanbusters are probably dead meat, with their XL engines.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 20 September 2014 - 09:22 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Koniving, on 20 September 2014 - 09:18 AM, said:

There is that as well. But the Clan Buster version didn't really have much of a paint job difference. It's a Comstar variant, which is nice, it's also got extra hardpoints which does bode well.

But a Royal Brigade model would really shine with the paint and splendor. I mean it's Royal. Which Battletech units of high regard are known for really lavish paint schemes.

Of the two the Clan Buster 01 would make a good bit of practical sense.
The 0b would make a good bit of fictional splendor.

From a lore standpoint they both make good sense.

Hmmm...visual bling...... Olive and Tan


vs Pearlescent White and Metallic Gold?


I think the Comguard got the bling, down.

[Koniving]

Bishop Steiner, on 20 September 2014 - 09:27 AM, said:

The first royal regiment wasn't much for flash.

Though the noteable pilots have a bit of an interesting personality.

Just imagine these in the field.

Besides, First Davion Guards have bling down.


First royal guards of House Steiner.

Spoiler

Sadly, from what I've seen of the other royal guards I was expecting quite a bit more from the SLDF Royal Guard schemes.


Now this color scheme of the SLDF... that I could easily picture on a King Crab.

Edited by Koniving, 20 September 2014 - 10:23 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Koniving, on 20 September 2014 - 10:19 AM, said:

The first royal regiment wasn't much for flash.

Though the noteable pilots have a bit of an interesting personality.

Just imagine these in the field.

Besides, First Davion Guards have bling down.


First royal guards of House Steiner.


Sadly, from what I've seen of the other royal guards I was expecting quite a bit more from the SLDF Royal Guard schemes.

Well, Greg Oliphant is technically a part of the ELH, not a Royal Brigade.

[Koniving]

Bishop Steiner, on 20 September 2014 - 10:21 AM, said:

Well, Greg Oliphant is technically a part of the ELH, not a Royal Brigade.

I noticed. I was referring to the noteable SLDF pilot Greg Oliphant's Banshee. ELH is still considered part of the SLDF. At least by category on Camospecs.

[Wintersdark]

FupDup, on 20 September 2014 - 08:53 AM, said:

One build I'm theorycrafting is 2 Gauss + 2 LL on whatever variant can carry it, with a STD325 engine. 4 AC/5 + 2 (or more?) ML could also work. If the mech turned out to be XL-friendly, then very very crazy builds would be possible.

Whatever ends up happening, limiting it to just 6 hardpoints might be a good way to balance it against other assaults...it looks to be boaty enough as it is.

Few, heavy hardpoints would be a way to go.

A real danger with the King Crab is totally obsoleting the Atlas. As such, I think the likelyhood of an ECM KC is pretty damn near zero.

Realistically, I think the first two variants Mr. Steiner posted above are highly likely - 2B/2B/1E/1M and a 1B/1B/2E/2M version, the third, though? I was digging through Sarna, and there's pretty much nothing else as viable options really, unless PGI goes quite off the wall for hardpoints - many of the listed variants are effectively the same from an MWO point of view

On the other hand, it's not like PGI has shied away from making flat out inferior or effectively identical variants before.

The two posted offer lots of good options, though.

Obviously, I'll want an AC40 and DualGauss pair, but I'd really like it if one of these sported 3x3 ballistics - see: JM6-DD, embiggened.

I'd love to play with a KC mounting a UAC5, AC5, and AC2 in each arm. The above versions would be more effective, yes, but this would be GLORIOUS DAKKA.

I highly doubt KC's will be XL friendly. They'll be wide mechs, and wide mechs means either instant CT death or vulnerable side torsos - has to be one or the other.



Now... a KC with 1B in each arm, and high mounted (shell mounted!) 2E in each torso would be freaking awesome. I'd love twin gauss and 6 ML's.

[Bishop Steiner]

Koniving, on 20 September 2014 - 10:26 AM, said:

I noticed. I was referring to the noteable SLDF pilot Greg Oliphant's Banshee. ELH is still considered part of the SLDF. At least by category on Camospecs.

Modern SLDF. (And Original, but after the Exodus, they were Mercs). But Modern (and also disbanded) doesn't have any true Royals.

Wintersdark, on 20 September 2014 - 10:29 AM, said:

Few, heavy hardpoints would be a way to go.

A real danger with the King Crab is totally obsoleting the Atlas. As such, I think the likelyhood of an ECM KC is pretty damn near zero.

Realistically, I think the first two variants Mr. Steiner posted above are highly likely - 2B/2B/1E/1M and a 1B/1B/2E/2M version, the third, though? I was digging through Sarna, and there's pretty much nothing else as viable options really, unless PGI goes quite off the wall for hardpoints - many of the listed variants are effectively the same from an MWO point of view

On the other hand, it's not like PGI has shied away from making flat out inferior or effectively identical variants before.

The two posted offer lots of good options, though.

Obviously, I'll want an AC40 and DualGauss pair, but I'd really like it if one of these sported 3x3 ballistics - see: JM6-DD, embiggened.

I'd love to play with a KC mounting a UAC5, AC5, and AC2 in each arm. The above versions would be more effective, yes, but this would be GLORIOUS DAKKA.

I highly doubt KC's will be XL friendly. They'll be wide mechs, and wide mechs means either instant CT death or vulnerable side torsos - has to be one or the other.



Now... a KC with 1B in each arm, and high mounted (shell mounted!) 2E in each torso would be freaking awesome. I'd love twin gauss and 6 ML's.

Third one, the 010 is totally viable, and timeline allowable. Only issue would be, indeed as you pointed out, if they allowed ECM. I simply felt I need to address the possibility in bringing out it's specs. It does not have ECM, stock.

[Wintersdark]

Bishop Steiner, on 20 September 2014 - 10:31 AM, said:

Modern SLDF. (And Original, but after the Exodus, they were Mercs). But Modern (and also disbanded) doesn't have any true Royals.


Third one, the 010 is totally viable, and timeline allowable. Only issue would be, indeed as you pointed out, if they allowed ECM. I simply felt I need to address the possibility in bringing out it's specs. It does not have ECM, stock.

So maybe if they went:

000: 3B/1E/--/1M/3B
001: 2B/2E/--/2M/2B
010: 1B/2E1M/--/2E1M/1B

for good differentiation.

[Bishop Steiner]

Wintersdark, on 20 September 2014 - 10:35 AM, said:

So maybe if they went:

000: 3B/1E/--/1M/3B
001: 2B/2E/--/2M/2B
010: 1B/2E1M/--/2E1M/1B

for good differentiation.

8 hard points I think would be a danger to invalidating other Assaults. A few, heavy ones fit the brute role of the mech better.