60 replies to this topic

[Koniving]

Bishop Steiner, on 20 September 2014 - 10:31 AM, said:

Third one, the 010 is totally viable, and timeline allowable. Only issue would be, indeed as you pointed out, if they allowed ECM. I simply felt I need to address the possibility in bringing out it's specs. It does not have ECM, stock.

Its description is very artistic.. Flush-with-the-frame PPCs with SRM-6s arrayed with the missile tubes literally surrounding each port..

But..

Quote

All told the 010 model was more than capable of taking down an Atlas, but the entire line left with Kerensky during the Exodus and even knowledge of the design's existence became lost during the Succession Wars.

If the line left and more weren't produceable... it'd be hard to explain their sudden and mass reappearance. Then again most things in MWO are really difficult to explain anyway when they stray as far as they have.

But why is ECM on the table? It's not on the specs. Is it because it's a command mech? Is that what defines whether or not we throw ECM on a mech, it being a 'command' unit?

(No wonder why the Atlas K got screwed... The pinnacle of technology far as the AS7 series, yet no ECM... or hardpoint fluffing, when the Atlas D-DC, which barely had room for its command center and required several weapons to be yanked out, that didn't have enough room for a proper 20 tube launcher and instead had a five tube launcher yet managed to get fluffed with an extra missile hardpoint...got the ECM?)

Edited by Koniving, 20 September 2014 - 10:50 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Koniving, on 20 September 2014 - 10:38 AM, said:

Its description is very artistic.. Flush-with-the-frame PPCs with SRM-6s arrayed with the missile tubes literally surrounding each port..

can you repost this as plain text? Really hard to decipher your actual point.

As for ECM? I said it MIGHT be a consideration. Why did the D-DC get it? Because it had a Command Module? I am not advocating for or against, but stating a possibility. I would prefer against it.

As for the -010, because they are about as common as 733 Highlanders in the IS? (Extinct since second succession war, not back in production til 3058) or Timber Wolf-S (not in production for another year).

The only other option is the -000b, and they have specifically avoided ANY SLDF Royals to this point, so it seems unlikely that they will change that.

the -010 make the list purely due to lack of other options. Before Them announcing the KGC I would have not considered it a viable candidate til 3052 game time, due to lack of available variants.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 20 September 2014 - 10:47 AM.

[Koniving]

Wintersdark, on 20 September 2014 - 10:35 AM, said:

So maybe if they went:

000: 3B/1E/--/1M/3B
001: 2B/2E/--/2M/2B
010: 1B/2E1M/--/2E1M/1B

for good differentiation.

Edit:
(I see... You did /--/ to separate left and right sides. I read that wrong and was like "...wait, he's short on missile ports for the 010.." when I wrote this)

To mention it...
The actual list is..

000: 2 ballistic (1 per arm), 1 missile (LT), 1 energy (RT)
001: 2 ballistic (1 per arm), 2 missile (LT) + 1 missile (RT), 1 energy
010: 2 ballistic (1 per arm), 2 missile (1 per ST), 2 energy (1 per ST; Encircled by the missile launchers)
0000: 2 ballistic (1 per arm), 1 missile (LT), 1 energy (RT)
000b: 2 ballistic (1 per arm), 1 missile (LT), 1 energy (RT)

6 is the typical limit. Though I see nothing wrong with 8 or 10 hardpoints. I believe the mech can never fully support all of said hardpoints given IS build limitations, unless it started sporting lots of AC/2s (ghost heat), lots of MGs, or energy/missile boating.

There are up to 8 hardpoints on the Atlas D. (2 ballistic, 2 missile, 4 energy). (6 on the K. 7 on the RS. 7 on the D-DC; though that third missile port is far too useful.)

(My Dire Wolf sports 15 hardpoints).

Limitations on max tube count can pretty much throw out missile boating. Energy, well that's nothing you can control. But the people going for it will want the dakka. I personally would want to have twin MGs per arm supporting a UAC/5 or LBX in each.

But they would only 'need' to fluff it for the copycats (0000 and 000b).

Edited by Koniving, 20 September 2014 - 10:57 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Koniving, on 20 September 2014 - 10:48 AM, said:

There are up to 8 hardpoints on the Atlas D. (2 ballistic, 2 missile, 4 energy). (6 on the K. 7 on the RS. 7 on the D-DC; though that third missile port is far too useful.)

(My Dire Wolf sports 15 hardpoints).

to my mind the differences are:
Dire Wolf had no choice. The Prime is stupid silly with hardpoints. Also, locked cores on Omnis limit what you can do still.

Atlas? ECM. Otherwise, I do feel it, and several other mechs were screwed, whereas some later mechs have gotten hardpoint inflation all over the place.

[MisterPlanetarian]

Going by this I'd Say the Hardpoints are:

4xB(looks like 2x Per pincer)
2xE(obviously slots for 2)
2xM(Toss up could be just 1)

Edited by MisterPlanetarian, 20 September 2014 - 01:34 PM.

[Wintersdark]

I don't even care anymore. That thing is dead sexy. I mean, seriously, Alex is a mech porn god.

[Deathlike]

Wintersdark, on 20 September 2014 - 01:58 PM, said:

I mean, seriously, Alex is a mech porn god.

QFT

[Bishop Steiner]

MisterPlanetarian, on 20 September 2014 - 01:33 PM, said:

Going by this I'd Say the Hardpoints are:

4xB(looks like 2x Per pincer)
2xE(obviously slots for 2)
2xM(Toss up could be just 1)

except that only covers one model.

[MisterPlanetarian]

Bishop Steiner, on 20 September 2014 - 04:20 PM, said:

except that only covers one model.

Thats concept art for the Special version. It seems to be running with a stock loadout, 2x AC20, 1xLRM20 and 1xLarge Laser with room for 1 more.

[Bishop Steiner]

MisterPlanetarian, on 20 September 2014 - 04:23 PM, said:

Thats concept art for the Special version. It seems to be running with a stock loadout, 2x AC20, 1xLRM20 and 1xLarge Laser with room for 1 more.

its also an early piece, Russ said Alex only had unfinished ones (also it has 15 tubes,though room for 20). Willing to bet it doesn't get any inflation to the energy or missiles. Won't mind if you are right, though!

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 20 September 2014 - 04:27 PM.

[A Man In A Can]

Pretty spot on there with the hardpoint and variant projections Bishop. Unless they throw in the curveball Clanbuster variant from 3052 saying it's an "advanced prototype variant", I would have predicted the same with what's available.

[LordKnightFandragon]

I foresee 1 build out of this mech...2 AC20s for CQC work, and some SRMs for backing up the AC20s....the mech rushing forward and face planting everything.

[Bishop Steiner]

LordKnightFandragon, on 20 September 2014 - 05:14 PM, said:

I foresee 1 build out of this mech...2 AC20s for CQC work, and some SRMs for backing up the AC20s....the mech rushing forward and face planting everything.

Arms are low enough that Gaussing will probably be a little impacted, but could easily see 2 GAuss, 1-2 PPC, like on the Direwolf, or 2 Gauss, 1 PPC and LRMS, also.

Looks like one can do:
Internal Structure: Endo Steel
Engine: 325 std
Heat Sinks: 10 DHS
Armor: 528 std
Armament:
2x AC/20 ammo x6
1x ER Large Laser
1x LRM15 ammo x2

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 21 September 2014 - 10:19 AM.

[Ovion]

The 'stock' loadouts are:
KGC-000: (Fine, likely variant)
- STD Structure, FF Armour, STD Engine, Single Heat Sinks
- 1LL, 2AC20, 1LRM15 (1E, 2B, 1M)

KGC-0000: (Fine, likely variant)
- STD Structure, STD Armour, STD Engine, Single Heat Sinks
- 1LL, 2AC20, 1LRM15 (1E, 2B, 1M)

KGC-000b: (Problem: 'Royal' variant. None have been included so far.
Could easily be replicated with the 'standard' variant anyway.)
- STD Armour, FF Armour, STD Engine, Double Heat Sinks
- 1LL, 2AC20, 1LRM15+A (1E, 2B, 1M)

KGC-001: (Problem: 3052 variant. Could be built on any other King Crab in MWO though.
Don't know if that matters.)
- STD Armour, FF Armour, XL Engine, Single Heat Sinks
- 1LPL, 2GR, 1LRM15 (1E, 2B, 1M)

KGC-010: (Problem: All variants went with the clans when they left the Innersphere.
Additionally, it has special unique geometry, though shouldn't be TOO hard to pull off.
Easiest to implement, though technically 'extinct')
- STD Armour, FF Armour, STD Engine, Single Heat Sinks
- 2PPC, 2LBX10, 2SRM6 (2E, 2B, 2M)

Each will likely gain an AMS hardpoint, but I'm not sure we'll really see much inflation outside of that.
Certainly no ECM (wut)

Edited by Ovion, 21 September 2014 - 11:48 AM.

[Jazzbandit1313]

Where are the AMS hardpoints Bishy? WHERE ARE THEYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY??????

[Bishop Steiner]

Jazzbandit1313, on 21 September 2014 - 11:41 AM, said:

Where are the AMS hardpoints Bishy? WHERE ARE THEYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY??????

you got me.

Added. Going with RT as the LT has a huge honking LRM rack on it. And CT mounted AMS generally look really dumb (yes, bias decision, lol).

Ovion, on 21 September 2014 - 11:08 AM, said:

Each will likely gain an AMS hardpoint, but I'm not sure we'll really see much inflation outside of that.
Certainly no ECM (wut)

pretty sure I covered the relevant ones, and even explained why i listed the possibility of ECM. Btw? CDC-3M, DMD-2D and AS7D-DC...know what they all have in common? No ECM, stock.

[Asyres]

I'd really like to see one with 4B in the arms (2 in each), for maximum dakka. That's plausible with some basic hardpoint inflation, surely?

[Bront]

My thoughts in another thread:

• KGC-000: two ballistics in both arms, two energy in the right torso, one missiles in the left torso, dual AMS
  
• KGC-0000: two ballistics in both arms, one energy in the Right Torso, three Missiles in the Left Torso
  
• KGC-010: ballistics in both arms, energy in both side-torsos, missiles in both side-torsos

Dual AMS seems to fit one of the 3 mechs, and since the 000 is star-league era, it's a good candidate, but it needs more than just 6 weapoon hardpoints, so inflate the Energy by 1. End result, works well as a brawler and can weather the LRM Rain as it approaches (slowly).

0000 doesn't get the second AMS or extra energy slot, so it gets 3 missile slots on the LT. Gives it reach with LRMs, or SRM Brawling, and cooler than the 000 but more ammo dependent.

Alternive to the 0000 is the 001 clan buster, which has 5 weapon hardpoints (it has 1 SSRM2 in each torso) by default, could offer 2 more in the arms, and has the missiles spread out. It could also have a higher engine cap since it's an XL mech by default, and it wouldn't have the larger missile hunch on the LT then. Not timeline correct, but might fit in well, particularly if it has some quirks that make up for having an XL (faster twist?)

010 works fine with no hardpoint growth. It's balanced with 6 hard points due to the spread. Maybe it has an increased arm range as it might get the lower arm actuators back.

I see the 000 and the 010 definately. Not sure if we'll get the 0000 or the 001, though the 001 would make some level of sense.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Well as far as the Gift mech, they listed it as a "custom" variant rather than as a designation like they did the rest of the gifts so the King Crab might actually have hardpoints and configs not listed in the TROs. Something to think on anyway.

However, it is still going to be a beast. Did a little theorycrafting and I came up with the following build:

2 AC/20s (6 tons ammo)
1 PPC
1 LRM10 (1 ton ammo)
300 Standard Engine
608 Armor

I Forget the DHS count but it was in theory enough to keep it at about 1.2 on the heat management scale (not counting ghost heat). 50 points of pin point damage, that is even going to back off a Dire Wolf in a hurry. The LRM is mostly just for tagging Assists but you could drop an SRM6 here an beef up Short Range firepower fairly significantly.

In any case, looks like it is going to be a fun IS assault and I am definitely looking forward to it. Damn sexy too.

[Bishop Steiner]

Viktor Drake, on 21 September 2014 - 12:57 PM, said:

Well as far as the Gift mech, they listed it as a "custom" variant rather than as a designation like they did the rest of the gifts so the King Crab might actually have hardpoints and configs not listed in the TROs. Something to think on anyway.

However, it is still going to be a beast. Did a little theorycrafting and I came up with the following build:

2 AC/20s (6 tons ammo)
1 PPC
1 LRM10 (1 ton ammo)
300 Standard Engine
608 Armor

I Forget the DHS count but it was in theory enough to keep it at about 1.2 on the heat management scale (not counting ghost heat). 50 points of pin point damage, that is even going to back off a Dire Wolf in a hurry. The LRM is mostly just for tagging Assists but you could drop an SRM6 here an beef up Short Range firepower fairly significantly.

In any case, looks like it is going to be a fun IS assault and I am definitely looking forward to it. Damn sexy too.

yeah, I think I threw a theory craft one together with a 325 std, 2 ac20, 6x ammo, ER large, LRM15 with 2x ammo. Armor was about 1.5 tons lighter though.