70 replies to this topic

[Seeker Kirov]

One of the reasons I don't like lobbies is that there is often a lobby leader. And they like to do dumb things. Can you not imagine a lobby leader that decides that the Locust is worthless and he will kick anyone from the lobby that is using one? Or one that hates Clanners? Capellans?

[Dracol]

Although there are some benefits to persistent lobbies, as has been stated the draw backs out weighs them.

With that said, a general chat while in mech lab would be cool. Since the unit chat has been added, comms within CI have greatly improved since we can talk between dropships.

Now if they expanded it out so there was a general chat, unit chat, group chat, and individual conversation that was visible through out your front end experience, that would be a very beneficial addition. Would have to include the ability to block specific pilots.

[Rebas Kradd]

PGI has a tiny staff and can only do so much, so they "outsourced" such player tools to the community by not doing them.

This year, someone finally rose to the challenge and created MWOlobby. I suggest you check it out.

Edited by Rebas Kradd, 21 September 2014 - 08:29 AM.

[Thorn Hallis]

Dark DeLaurel, on 21 September 2014 - 01:30 AM, said:

snip

Thats a lobby, not a lobby system.

[Shalune]

Quxudica, on 21 September 2014 - 12:39 AM, said:

Random Matchmaking has steadily become the norm in many games. It started (for me) with Halo on console (yeah, filthy consoles) and in the time since I've seen more and more games stop using a server browser system in favor of these random set ups.

I can't tell you how much I despise it. It so heavily restricts the community and how you want to play the game, it makes it next to impossible to play with the same people for extended periods unless you friend them (one match with a stranger is not enough time to decide to friend someone imo) and it's basically the death of "Novelty Rooms".

Back in the day, I could browse a bunch of player made lobbies if I didn't feel like or couldn't get into the official rooms. I could come in and play with a group of total strangers for as long as I wished, talk to them over VoiP work together as a team, coordinate with them and have a blast. I could even have a blast getting to know the guys on the other team between matches, maybe we'd switch up teams or just talk in the lobby to eachother while people picked their load out and we decided on a map. If one particular weapon was "over powered" we could use "house rules" to ban it's use if everyone was ok with it. Hell more than that I would often specifically look for what I refer to as "Novelty Rooms", player lobbies made with special and often silly house rules. Pistols only games, Sniper Rifles only games, Melee only games, Rocket only games etc. It was so much fun to join a game where everyone was restricted to the worst weapon as we'd bounce around trying to kill eachother with a single shot breach loading sniper rifle that did terrible damage without a head shot without using the scope. Silly? sure, fun? **** yes.

Hell even in other genres, I remember joining player lobbies in Diablo II where the entire point was to bet on Golem duels. Get two Necromancers together with their chosen Golem out, turn on PvP and let the golems fight it out while the others bet on the outcome. Same went for Mercenary Duel rooms and all manner of other silly set ups.

Not having player created lobbies with a server browser hurts the ability to meet new people, to grow the community *inside the game* and so heavily restricts how the game can be played.

Sad thing is, once upon a time I put a lot of hours into a third person military shooter that used dedicated servers with a server browser. It allowed player created lobbies in addition to the official ones, it had in-lobby text chat where both sides could talk to each other and to their own team privately, it had integrated push to talk voice chat in the lobby and in the game, it allowed map selection and even map "play lists" to automatically queue up the maps in the order the host set, it allowed the host to choose the game mode or modes, the sequel to this game even expanded this and allowed the room host to set custom rules so that players could not pick certain weapons or equipment if the host so desired (basically officially acknowledging how much the community loved the unofficial house rule rooms from the previous title) . It let creativity flourish in the house rules and most importantly it gave the community and in game means of growing, you could fire up the server browser pick a game with a title that sounded interesting (novelty room, clan tryout, practice, ranked, shooting the ****, whatever) and you could potentially spend hours with generally the same people - maybe even make new friends or find a clan. Rooms could be set with rank requirements, so newbies could join indicated newbie rooms, advanced players could join high rank rooms and if you wanted you could make rooms with no rank req and welcome all. If people left more came, if the host left someone else became host. it was great. Sad thing about all of this?

This game with so many options to encourage player choice and freedom? It was SOCOM: US Navy Seals and it's sequels, a console series on the PlayStation 2 from a decade or so ago. I can't tell you how depressing and honestly aggravating it is that a console shooter from back when I had bloody dial-up gave me better choices and options than a pc game in 2014, and I don't just mean MWO.. even bloody Diablo 3 uses the Random Matchmaker bullshit these days.

I don't mind Random Matchmaking being a thing, I just detest that it's the only way to play a game unless you form a friend party. Let me make my own lobbies again and sit there for a few minutes while random strangers join, odds are it will be a blast even if I don't ever see them again. Even more it helps detoxify the community, players that verbally abused their own team, glitched, cheated or exploited or were simply unpleasent could just be vote kicked. The occasional bad apple gets weeded out as the game eventually fills up with pleasant people to play with, and most people in general are less inclined to be ******** to others when they aren't put on a team full of anonymous randoms they will likely never see again after the game ends by a computer algorithm.

This is one of my buttons when it comes to PC gaming, I tend to rant about it. I know dedicated servers are expensive and making a functional server browser system can be demanding, but the benefits to the game just seem so very worth it to me.. I really dislike that so many games elect to not use it these days.

This guy ****ing gets it. I wish more people understood why the popularization of consoles, and this particular issue piss me off so much.

[KraftySOT]

Yup.

And PC developers keep blaming pirates for destroying the industry.

Pretty sure it has alot more to do with that very well written post. Developers just dont understand that theres a growing consensus that they have taken the wrong path since the 90s golden age of gaming. F2P is a direct response to the lackluster sales of PC boxed titles (boxes have completely disapeared almost, and its not steam, and its not the pirates, its that they dont make the money they did in the days of iD and Activision, and if they do make more, the overheard for developing the AAA title is such a large percentage of the profit)

And more and more were limited like console games are, and PC developers think, oh, consoles are doing great, lets make our games like console games..thats where the gamers are.

The whole term 'gamer' didnt help either. It was very clear in the 90s, you either played PC games, or console games, there wasnt much overlap.

I wasnt going to buy a playstation, because playstation didnt have games that allowed you the same level of freedom and customization as the PC.

The PC developers just dumbed their games down to the console level...so that theres now no alternative to the watered down crapola.

[KraftySOT]

Practically the only thing keeping me gaming AT ALL these days, is super high level wargames, like Gary Grigsbys War in the East, or The Operational Art of War, Combat Mission, Megamek, Dominions 4...thats all that you can get these days on the PC with a real PC gaming ethos...customization, depth, challenge, and attention to detail, and the freedom to play the game the way you want to play.

Its that or 4x games.

Its annoying to see WoT on the consoles, and knowing that PGI would love if this game could get onto the Xbox and Playstation. Im sure the money would be great...their kids will go to college...awesome...but old PC gamers like myself and some of the people here, will eventually just tune out as our freedom gets confined to "structured fun" consolitis.

[Seeker Kirov]

KraftySOT, on 21 September 2014 - 10:19 AM, said:

Gary Grigsbys War in the East, or The Operational Art of War, Combat Mission, Megamek

Can we be best friends?

[Dahnyol]

Kavoh, on 21 September 2014 - 01:12 AM, said:

While I have seen some good experiences come from online games hosting their own VoIP, its generally a mixed experience for most people. I generally never used them as there is always "that guy", and more... sensitive individuals would probably be hurt by some of the more personal (due to voice) actions of other players, which can lead to blame on PGIs part. TS/Vent/etc leaves it up to the player to want to get more personal and coordinated with others.

Just my 2 cents.

As for lobbies, I don't think it would work with our population/game style.

While it is true there is always "that guy", that happens EVERYWHERE IN REAL LIFE. I don't understand how you can't deal with a guy with his mic on with simple mute. VENT and other programs are fine but for some people we don't want to jump through 10 hoops for a simple voice communication option? I don't understand how your argument has any real merit against having a system implemented.

As for lobbies, it can just be general chat. And who are you to say how population will react? Every person is different, please stop lumping people in generalized categories.
Can you explain why our "game style and population" is so vastly different from other games? Other than assumptions? I fail to believe that this game only attracts 'smart, teamspeak, tabletop, hardcore, niche' people, who by the way, can be more of an ass-- I mean more sensitive than the average "troll".

orcrist86, on 21 September 2014 - 07:29 AM, said:

Other games use lobbies for two real reasons: persistent dedicated servers. If a player acts as a server everyone who joins stays on that server until the server is disconnected or shut down. This is the same if a server is truly dedicated, like the ones you make or rent for counterstrike, or battlefield. In this situation the server browser is necessary because a player will want to choose the best server for their tastes and location. Though really, most games have a quick match button that will do the same thing. MWO matches are not persistent despite tracking (which is similar to hlstatsx). Every match is an instance, players do not continue on and are simply disconnected after a period of time.

The second reason is that these games lack the same kind of customization that MWO has. Every player is essentially equal minus whatever kit options they may have. The differences in firepower and tonnage in MWO completely negates that kind of balance, making a lobby system unusable without even stricter and onerous balancing tactics.

There are advantages to the MWO MM system however, though most of them are back-end. The servers can be run more efficiently because they throttle up and down depending on need, rather than running at peak 24/7. Balance, while arguable not fantastic, is better than what you would get in trying to find a lobby full of people willing to choose a chasis or weight class they don't favor.

This is a ridiculous premise.. we would have less server stability and functionality because they need to allocate resources to run a voice comm system!? Really? Is this real life? I am going to de-sync more often because I can press V to talk through my microphone? Servers won't run optimally because all those crazy resources for that?

And you're taking about how it will hurt game balance? What? In the game where every thread on here ends in some form of "IT'S THE PILOT BRO, NOT THE MECH, SKILL PILOTZ!!" . If everyone could get their Twolf for Cbills now you'd already see the 40% heavy que get higher, people will always gravitate to the strongest mechs. Dude we don't even have in-game stats, we have to log in to the website...

Sorry to get fired up.. It really is insane that we need to fight for basic communication options in the game.

Edited by Dahnyol, 21 September 2014 - 12:28 PM.

[Kavoh]

Dahnyol, on 21 September 2014 - 12:23 PM, said:

While it is true there is always "that guy", that happens EVERYWHERE IN REAL LIFE. I don't understand how you can't deal with a guy with his mic on with simple mute. VENT and other programs are fine but for some people we don't want to jump through 10 hoops for a simple voice communication option? I don't understand how your argument has any real merit against having a system implemented.

As for lobbies, it can just be general chat. And who are you to say how population will react? Every person is different, please stop lumping people in generalized categories.
Can you explain why our "game style and population" is so vastly different from other games? Other than assumptions? I fail to believe that this game only attracts 'smart, teamspeak, tabletop, hardcore, niche' people, who by the way, can be more of an ass-- I mean more sensitive than the average "troll".




This is a ridiculous premise.. we would have less server stability and functionality because they need to allocate resources to run a voice comm system!? Really? Is this real life? I am going to de-sync more often because I can press V to talk through my microphone? Servers won't run optimally because all those crazy resources for that?

And you're taking about how it will hurt game balance? What? In the game where every thread on here ends in some form of "IT'S THE PILOT BRO, NOT THE MECH, SKILL PILOTZ!!" . If everyone could get their Twolf for Cbills now you'd already see the 40% heavy que get higher, people will always gravitate to the strongest mechs. Dude we don't even have in-game stats, we have to log in to the website...

Sorry to get fired up.. It really is insane that we need to fight for basic communication options in the game.

It's called an opinion, which is exactly what your viewpoint is too. Congrats on such a stupid over reaction.

[Dahnyol]

Kavoh, on 21 September 2014 - 01:42 PM, said:

It's called an opinion, which is exactly what your viewpoint is too. Congrats on such a stupid over reaction.

Totally bro, just call me stupid . Way not to over react and be mature!

[Kavoh]

Dahnyol, on 21 September 2014 - 01:44 PM, said:

Totally bro, just call me stupid . Way not to over react and be mature!

I said your reaction was stupid, not that you're stupid. Go take a walk outside and cool your head, you're obviously way too worked up right now.

[Dahnyol]

Kavoh, on 21 September 2014 - 01:45 PM, said:

I said your reaction was stupid, not that you're stupid. Go take a walk outside and cool your head, you're obviously way too worked up right now.

Can you let me know why it is so stupid? Or you just want to attack me personally on a internet forum?

Btw, you shouldn't feel the need to defend yourself if I picked your **** opinion apart. It wasn't personal.

Edited by Dahnyol, 21 September 2014 - 01:49 PM.

[Scyther]

To get back on topic:

I don't game in PvP MMO's enough to know how most game lobbies work, but for the love of mech please at least give us an in-game general chat function so people can ask what they need to do to team up and meet others - without having to go ENTIRELY OUTSIDE THE GAME to even communicate with their fellow MWO'ers.

This has been a mind-bogglingly bad choice since day 1. And no, the fairly poor All/Team/Lance chats in combat don't count. And doubly no, this horrible forum system where I have to 1-finger type because it drops every 3rd character I type in at normal speed doesn't count either.

[Kavoh]

Dahnyol, on 21 September 2014 - 01:46 PM, said:

Can you let me know why it is so stupid? Or you just want to attack me personally on a internet forum?

The only one attacking anyone personally here is you with your passive aggressive attitude and blaming for "lumping people together" and making assumptions. If you think that was a personal attack, then you are one of the "sensitive" people I was speaking of.

Quote

While it is true there is always "that guy", that happens EVERYWHERE IN REAL LIFE

You cannot compared real life to VoIP over a video game. Anonymity changes how people act. Fact.

Quote

I don't understand how you can't deal with a guy with his mic on with simple mute

This has nothing to do with lone instances of simply muting people. If you have it as a toggle option, you will rarely have people in VoIP, so much so, that it will be a huge implementation for only a small fraction of users. (Remember, lots of people don't know how to figure out which direction their torsos are, you think they can set up a mic? This isn't xbox). So it means it would have to be auto toggled on, which leads to the massive amounts of QQ from people who can't take it. Remember, it also has to be GOOD quality.

Quote

As for lobbies, it can just be general chat. And who are you to say how population will react? Every person is different, please stop lumping people in generalized categories.

This game will not be healthy with "selective" drops. People will see certain aspects they don't like, (mechs, people, clans, etc) and avoid them, black list them in their lobbies, and make poor commando bob over there miserable because hes not piloting a jenner or raven. If you want general chat, just add <all> to current drops. But there is little bonus that comes from competitive talk between opposite sides.

Quote

Can you explain why our "game style and population" is so vastly different from other games? Other than assumptions? I fail to believe that this game only attracts 'smart, teamspeak, tabletop, hardcore, niche' people, who by the way, can be more of an ass-- I mean more sensitive than the average "troll".

Other than assumptions huh? So I guess you hold all the facts in this regard? This is different because this game has so many factors that no other game has. TONS of mechs, weapons systems, loadouts, and maps that some people enjoy, while others despise. This leads to people black listing or showing prejudice towards people who don't have the "optimal" loadout. Which will lead to what I said just above if there is any sort of "lobby" in which people gather before dropping.

Having voice in pugs (even if miraculously 100% are using them) won't stop large groups from rolling them. People in solo queues rarely coordinate as it is, do YOU think a "optional" voip will change that?

So before you go all passive aggressive again, sit back and think about more than just "what you want".

[Dahnyol]

Kavoh, on 21 September 2014 - 01:42 PM, said:

It's called an opinion, which is exactly what your viewpoint is too. Congrats on such a stupid over reaction.

Kavoh, on 21 September 2014 - 01:45 PM, said:

I said your reaction was stupid, not that you're stupid. Go take a walk outside and cool your head, you're obviously way too worked up right now.

Your response to my opinion. Nothing on what I actually said. So far pretty impersonal and not at all aggressive towards me.

Kavoh, on 21 September 2014 - 02:04 PM, said:

You cannot compared real life to VoIP over a video game. Anonymity changes how people act. Fact.

What? What does this have to do with anonymity.. You can report people's behavior for abuse voice comm..?

Kavoh, on 21 September 2014 - 01:45 PM, said:

The only one attacking anyone personally here is you with your passive aggressive attitude and blaming for "lumping people together" and making assumptions. If you think that was a personal attack, then you are one of the "sensitive" people I was speaking of.

This has nothing to do with lone instances of simply muting people. If you have it as a toggle option, you will rarely have people in VoIP, so much so, that it will be a huge implementation for only a small fraction of users. (Remember, lots of people don't know how to figure out which direction their torsos are, you think they can set up a mic? This isn't xbox). So it means it would have to be auto toggled on, which leads to the massive amounts of QQ from people who can't take it. Remember, it also has to be GOOD quality.

You're saying don't implement it because it will only help a small fraction of users... Is that bad?

Wait a minute. You say people are too stupid to learn to torso twist, therefore are too stupid to learn voice comm and that people who have xbox can't setup PC mics.. Way to lump people together.

Seems ironic you also assume massive QQ from this hypothetical...you are whining about whiners don't exist with voice comm problems that don't exist... For a guy who takes nothing personal, you seem to have a lot of hypothetical problems from these so called people who are too sensitive.

Every successful game in the last 10 years has some form of basic voice comm or general chat.

Please point to me a failed game solely because voice comm existed.

Kavoh, on 21 September 2014 - 01:45 PM, said:

This game will not be healthy with "selective" drops. People will see certain aspects they don't like, (mechs, people, clans, etc) and avoid them, black list them in their lobbies, and make poor commando bob over there miserable because hes not piloting a jenner or raven. If you want general chat, just add <all> to current drops. But there is little bonus that comes from competitive talk between opposite sides.

Who said **** about selective drops? Everyone already plays the strongest chassis. (i.e thread of "mechs you don't see anymore") Ever play any other game? There are always cookie cutter, garbage and for fun builds.

Kavoh, on 21 September 2014 - 01:45 PM, said:

Other than assumptions huh? So I guess you hold all the facts in this regard? This is different because this game has so many factors that no other game has. TONS of mechs, weapons systems, loadouts, and maps that some people enjoy, while others despise. This leads to people black listing or showing prejudice towards people who don't have the "optimal" loadout. Which will lead to what I said just above if there is any sort of "lobby" in which people gather before dropping.

TONS of mechs = 3 variants per chassis, each chassis varies hardpoints, all copied from TT.
Weapon systems = Lasers, missiles, ballistics.
Loadouts = buzzword for selecting your own equipment.
Maps that some people enjoy while others despise = every game ever in the history of games


Get off your high horse, this game isn't gamebreaking or unique. There aren't too many systems for the average person to learn. Can you please tell me more about how AMAZINGLY UNIQUE AND DEEP this game is compared to other games? Last I checked, WoW and GW2 have cutter cookie builds and useless builds same as MWO. People always criticize, praise and blacklist others (Look at the threads right now, imagine you can tell the person directly in game instead of making a ****** forum topic about it?) How is this different from ANY other game?

The selection of weapons is analogous to the selection of traits or skill points on different characters who serve as chassis.

Hell, we only control 1 mech out of 12. Please stop saying this game is more than an arena shooter at the moment.

Kavoh, on 21 September 2014 - 01:45 PM, said:

Having voice in pugs (even if miraculously 100% are using them) won't stop large groups from rolling them. People in solo queues rarely coordinate as it is, do YOU think a "optional" voip will change that?

The point of voice comm is not to have 100% participation and stop large groups from rolling them. Who in their mind thinks a PUG using voice comm will be competitive with a group who ques every week? Have you ever seen sports? It seems to be common sense to me, it is not a detriment. It is to encourage players to have communication in game. People in solo que rarely coordinate so you want to keep it this way and deny them to chance? Because of your imagined problems you stated above? Are these your arguments??

Kavoh, on 21 September 2014 - 01:45 PM, said:

So before you go all passive aggressive again, sit back and think about more than just "what you want".

Please take your own advice, you have not given any real argument against implement voice communication. And no, "it might be bad quality so why bother" is not really a good point..

Look, I'm not attacking the game you hold so dearly you played cash to fund it, I'm trying to improve it. Stop arguing against progress for some imagined scenarios.

Anything else cool hand luke?

[Carcass23]

War Thunder has a public lobby. It sucks. There has to be moderators on constantly, banning idiots who love to spam the channel with nonsense. Not to mention the WWII blowhards who argue ceaselessly, making the lobby their own personal forum. On a soapbox and proclaiming loudly about how the BF109 outclassed Twinkies or vice versa. I noticed also, they quietly shoved the lobby under some menu's. Wonder why?

While I agree that there must be a better way to develop a friends list than the 15 minutes per match to decide who is cool and who isn't. The current system doesn't help the players out in this instance. Were CW to come to reality, that would be a good time for meeting your lancemates in the factions. Perhaps this could be done with matches that consist of more than a single match with 23 other strangers? Three matches with your lance maybe? Let the matchmaker choose from lances instead of individuals in this case. Also when forming a random lance, maybe a way to vote out 1 of your members between matches. or not if everyone is pleased enough with the set.

[Mechteric]

I think a better idea would be if the matchmaker put you in a "lobby" before loading the map (this would be necessary for map voting anyway), and then when the match is over you can decide to stick around and not have to wait for the matchmaker again (except those who choose to leave and have their space filled again). It can then offer another map voting.

Edited by CapperDeluxe, 22 September 2014 - 06:36 AM.

[Darklord]

Because Lobbies are lost tech.

[Riverboat Sam]

Darklord, on 22 September 2014 - 06:38 AM, said:

Because Lobbies are lost tech.

Ahhhh.... to be re-discovered by the Word of Blake crowd. I get it!