319 replies to this topic

[AgroAlba]

I don't envy your position, Russ. It seems like a darned if you do, darned if you don't.

Personally, as predominantly a person who plays in a group of two (myself and my husband) I'm dying for something to make the group queue feel less brutal. If that means locking down weight classes in groups, etc. So be it.

Solo queue? Great fun. Group Queue for two? Nyeeehhhh.... rarely.

[9thDeathscream]

AgroAntirrhopus, on 22 September 2014 - 01:23 PM, said:

I don't envy your position, Russ. It seems like a darned if you do, darned if you don't.

Personally, as predominantly a person who plays in a group of two (myself and my husband) I'm dying for something to make the group queue feel less brutal. If that means locking down weight classes in groups, etc. So be it.

Solo queue? Great fun. Group Queue for two? Nyeeehhhh.... rarely.

Same deal for me and my 2 boys.

[Dracol]

Akulla1980, on 22 September 2014 - 01:26 PM, said:

Same deal for me and my 2 boys.

Questions:
- What weight classes do you and your sons usually run?
- Are you on during EU or NA prime time?

[9thDeathscream]

Problem is. You provided a system that was fun for small groups, then took it away from us.

Then u get the solo purists who whined about being stomped. Well lads, u are still being stomped.

Then u have the large organised groups rubbing their hands together going bring it on. Stats padding time. These groups whining about loosing their farming abilities.

Then u get matches of small groups vs small groups and these are fantastic. Just don't see these matches very often.

Dracol, on 22 September 2014 - 01:33 PM, said:

Questions:
- What weight classes do you and your sons usually run?
- Are you on during EU or NA prime time?

All classes and different times of the day!

Edited by Akulla1980, 22 September 2014 - 01:43 PM.

[Mogney]

The OP pointed out a problem, I dont care for his solution though. Maybe work on improving the matchmaker in the group queue some. Weigh a teams ELO based on the size of the group. Comms are OP and calculating the teams elo taking into account that a group of 8 will destroy two groups of 4 (assuming similar skill) might be one thing to consider.

[Arend]

Atm playing in a Group of 2 or 3 is a pain and usually not fun, matches like this are rather the norm than the exception

[9thDeathscream]

Arend, on 22 September 2014 - 01:36 PM, said:

Atm playing in a Group of 2 or 3 is a pain and usually not fun, matches like this are rather the norm than the exception

This is what ive been seeing. Not always 12 man. Often 9 man and up in size.

[1453 R]

Russ Bullock, on 22 September 2014 - 12:15 PM, said:

I have to at least high lite these posts to show that not everyone feels the same way as the OP - believe it or not many don't.

It does a pretty dang good job of putting even tonnage per side, on average around 20 tons diff the last time I checked.

I think if we can smartly remove a few restrictions the MM is working with like the game mode selection hard stop.

Also if we left the grouping as it is now, how willing would players be to have more weight restrictions in their group window? for instance you have a group of 2 you would not be allowed to drop with 2 heavies etc. More rules within the group window will also help greatly.

So now not only are my new-player buddy and I being thrown against top-level competitive murder squads with 8+ players Because Reasons, but we can’t even try and take the ‘Mechs we’d like to run either?

Russ, I’m really loving all the communication and feedback/feedback collection recently, I am…but at that point, why not just ban groups of less than four players from the freaking outset and quit pretending that small casual groups are allowed to play at all, man? If we’re going to be treated as absolutely nothing but weight-matched filler for 10v12 ultracomp scrimmages, then I’ll just stay in the solo queue and Pierce’ll likely drop MWO altogether. Again.

[Stealth Raptor]

russ, is there any way or chance you can allow solo players to fill out the group queue? as many have said, while solo is fun sometimes, if i have to drop solo i would personally be thrown into group queue, and i think a LOT more people then you would think would agree to that. doesnt have to be like select only solo or only group, just put in a check box to allow mm to place you in a group match if there is an availability. that kind of inclusion might be able to balance out the group side of MM a little bit better and decrease weight times

and i hope people appreciate that this is NOT an easy fix. there is a substantial player base on both sides of this equation, so the majority of options they could possibly do are going to piss off a lot of people, so they want to take great care before they jump blindly in

Edited by Stealth Raptor, 22 September 2014 - 01:47 PM.

[9thDeathscream]

1453 R, on 22 September 2014 - 01:41 PM, said:

So now not only are my new-player buddy and I being thrown against top-level competitive murder squads with 8+ players Because Reasons, but we can’t even try and take the ‘Mechs we’d like to run either?

Russ, I’m really loving all the communication and feedback/feedback collection recently, I am…but at that point, why not just ban groups of less than four players from the freaking outset and quit pretending that small casual groups are allowed to play at all, man? If we’re going to be treated as absolutely nothing but weight-matched filler for 10v12 ultracomp scrimmages, then I’ll just stay in the solo queue and Pierce’ll likely drop MWO altogether. Again.

Took the words right out of my mind. I am so disapointed that i can't have fun with this game with my boys and friends.

[Squally160]

Akulla1980, on 22 September 2014 - 12:30 PM, said:

As usual it's all the players who form 12 mans who are screaming no. Because the can't go wiping out the small pug groups.

So what needs to be decided is does this game cater for a smaller hardcore player base with a few 12 mans and everyone else who has the shits getting stomped playing only in solo
Or a broader base of players in a more FUN CASUAL ENVIROMENT. With more smaller groups?

Oh yeah, every single post i see is about 12 mans moaning how we cant stomp on unorganized scrubs anymore.

Wait, all i have read is how 12 mans prefer tough competition to better ourselves. Stop acting like youre some martyr for small groups and us big bad 12 mans shouldnt be allowed any fun. And, do you know what fun is for us? Tough, close games. I feel bad for the small groups who come up against us, it does suck for them. Qnd it sucks for us as well. Do you honestly think we like waiting around for a game just to steamroll some unlucky chaps? Its a waste of our time. Its a waste of theirs.

Yeah, the system needs help, but punishing large groups even more wont help.

[Aym]

Akulla1980, on 22 September 2014 - 01:41 PM, said:

This is what ive been seeing. Not always 12 man. Often 9 man and up in size.

Sometimes, mostly in my experience, it's an organic process. 2 of us started today, Road and I. Then a third, then a fourth, and then all the way up to a 12-player group for a game, then bounced between 9-12 as new players saw the group and joined.

[9thDeathscream]

Squally160, on 22 September 2014 - 01:47 PM, said:

Oh yeah, every single post i see is about 12 mans moaning how we cant stomp on unorganized scrubs anymore.

Wait, all i have read is how 12 mans prefer tough competition to better ourselves. Stop acting like youre some martyr for small groups and us big bad 12 mans shouldnt be allowed any fun. And, do you know what fun is for us? Tough, close games. I feel bad for the small groups who come up against us, it does suck for them. Qnd it sucks for us as well. Do you honestly think we like waiting around for a game just to steamroll some unlucky chaps? Its a waste of our time. Its a waste of theirs.

Yeah, the system needs help, but punishing large groups even more wont help.

You guys aernt the ones being punished!!

U GET THE KDR XP AND CBILLS dont make out to me that u are suffering.

Edited by Akulla1980, 22 September 2014 - 01:50 PM.

[9thDeathscream]

Im not saying that the 12 mans should be stopped! There must be some compromise somewhere.

[Stealth Raptor]

as someone who frequently leads our large groups in our unit, i would MUCH RATHER race large groups instead of many small groups. all i care about is A) improving myself and B ) improving my group. if my 12 is thrown up against 3-4 small groups, lets face it, as long as we stay semi coordinated its an easy victory for the most part. easy victories do not help us get better, and are honestly a waste of time. as a 12 i would rather see those 9-10+ groups as you can learn a lot more from them. i am far from the only person in 12s who thinks this way. im sorry, not every 12 wants easy rolls to victory, some of us truly care about competition and getting better

Edited by Stealth Raptor, 22 September 2014 - 01:55 PM.

[9thDeathscream]

Stealth Raptor, on 22 September 2014 - 01:55 PM, said:

as someone who frequently leads our large groups in our unit, i would MUCH RATHER race large groups instead of many small groups. all i care about is A) improving myself and B ) improving my group. if my 12 is thrown up against 3-4 small groups, lets face it, as long as we stay semi coordinated its an easy victory for the most part. easy victories do not help us get better, and are honestly a waste of time. as a 12 i would rather see those 9-10+ groups as you can learn a lot more from them. i am far from the only person in 12s who thinks this way. im sorry, not every 12 wants easy rolls to victory, some of us truly care about competition and getting better

This is a great attitude and i agree 100%.

Unfortunately not all 12 mans adopt this attitude. I have seen it in some of the smart assed posts in ingame chat.

Why can we have some options in the group queue.

Say an option to give small groups to be placed only with small groups.

Also an option to be placed with large groups.

Granted i am sure it will be a ***** to implement!

Edited by Akulla1980, 22 September 2014 - 02:03 PM.

[Chemie]

Russ Bullock, on 22 September 2014 - 11:51 AM, said:

A few things to keep in mind:

1) Solo queue was very upset that any groups at all were in and wiping them.

but all you have done is shift the stomps to the team queue. This is a team game and when 2-4 team up, they get slaughtered like the pug queue. I never bought in to the 4 mans causing imbalance in pug queue...is there data to support this?

I always said team queue should have forced 4,8,12 to limit the mess. Right now, you have 5 random teams against a 12-man...basically pug vs premade but in a different queue..MIght as well have on queue as it stands right now.

Allowing all combination of 2-10 and 12 means the MM has to release a bunch of stuff to get the math to work just on team make-up (3/3/3/3 and 12 per side). Everything else goes out the window. Removing the game type will not fix this (most teams leave it all selected anyway)

Edited by Chemie, 22 September 2014 - 02:09 PM.

[9thDeathscream]

Chemie, on 22 September 2014 - 02:04 PM, said:

I always said team queue should have forced 4,8,12 to limit the mess. Right now, you have 5 random teams against a 12-man...basically pug vs premade but in a different queue..MIght as well have on queue as it stands right now.

I suggested this in a different thred as well.

As Russ said earlier it will be a pain to get MM to work with it.

[Flying Blind]

My sons are 9 and 12 and I drop with them a couple days a week for an hour or two each time. they also drop together without me and I don't see how the game is unwinnable for them. I see their teams winning close to 50% of the time which is what you should expect from match maker unless you are super high end skill wise. my sons are not good at the game. They aren't completely hopeless but they are pretty dang bad. They aren't doing a lot to help their teams win. yet still they are close to 50% w/l.

I can't help but think what's going on here if frustration based on unrealistic expectations. we all want to be good. we want to win every game. we probably all understand that we can't win every game but the fact is in a truly balanced game everyone would have a 1.0 win/loss ratio. the match maker does a pretty good job of keeping a lot of people close to that I think and I think that's why it is so hated. we feel we are exceptional and should win more than 50% but the truth is we shouldn't. every win you have more than losses represents you beating the odds and someone else falling below the average.

So yeah, I don't think it is as bad as it feels. post your w/l ratio and prove me wrong

[Kin3ticX]

Akulla1980, on 22 September 2014 - 02:02 PM, said:

This is a great attitude and i agree 100%.

Unfortunately not all 12 mans adopt this attitude. I have seen it in some of the smart assed posts in ingame chat.

Why can we have some options in the group queue.

Say an option to give small groups to be placed only with small groups.

Also an option to be placed with large groups.

Granted i am sure it will be a ***** to implement!

There are always going to be some teams in the group queue that are damn near unbeatable. There are also top teams which force themselves to run 4s because they want the carry load to keep them tip top.

Regarding options, obviously small groups will choose to exclude large groups and this wouldn't work.

Look at is this way. When you are facing a really really good team, you were the best thing the MM could find to beat it. As the underdog, you have lots of options to improve your chances.

• Run metabuilds (mimic what you see the other teams do, obviously this excludes paywalls like Madcats/Stormcrows if you dont have them)
  
• Join forces with larger groups on voice comms (drop decks: boost force multipliers)
  
• Practice ditching bad habits from the solo queue and adapting new tactics for the 12s queue (practice)
  
• Carry harder as a ~4-man