58 replies to this topic

[DAEDALOS513]

HeroForHire, on 24 September 2014 - 05:14 PM, said:

Get rid of the modules altogether!
Problem solved and we are ALL back on equal footing in our mechs! No one with radar deprivation, seismic sensor, etc advantage against those who DON'T have it.

A big negative on that one partner. Modules a big part of the fun of this game. It gives you a chance to customize your mech and gear it towards a specific role.

[DAEDALOS513]

Lord Scarlett Johan, on 24 September 2014 - 06:23 PM, said:

I think you don't understand I weekly pester Russ about changing either the UI or module system. And I've even sent him a video showing the number of clicks I need to make in order to move a module from one to the other.

It's fair to say, I've done plenty about this.

Believe me, your efforts are VERY MUCH APPRECIATED! Thank you! The UI is in a sad state of affairs and the module system is a big part of the reason. Has Russ ever replied as to the direction they will take to fix the problem?

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

DAEDALOS513, on 24 September 2014 - 06:31 PM, said:

Believe me, your efforts are VERY MUCH APPRECIATED! Thank you! The UI is in a sad state of affairs and the module system is a big part of the reason. Has Russ ever replied as to the direction they will take to fix the problem?

Just generic, "We're working on it and brainstorming" replies.

[a gaijin]

Lord Scarlett Johan, on 24 September 2014 - 06:19 PM, said:

You misunderstand.

I don't want to have to purchase a 6-mil CBill module for each and every mech I use it on. I run radar derp on all my mechs. I don't want to drop 6mmil for EACH one. Instead, a one time purchase and I can equip it on any mech I own. So I can equip it on all mechs for 6 mil, instead of how I have it now where I own 12 of the damnable things.

Same goes for the weapon mods. I run an AC20 cooldown and SRM6 range on my DDC, I also run a CN9-A with the SRM6 range module, and once purchase for 3 million, I want to be able to put it on any mech I want WITHOUT needing to shuffle or buy multiple mods.

Thanks for clarifying that.

I think PGI should engineer a "find my parts" search into the mechlab to make it easier to find your modules (etc) so you won't have to buy one for each when you are having a problem searching your 40+ mechs looking for it.

But if there was the option to "auto-pull" modules from one mech to another... ok that's reasonable for the way drops work now.

Now that being said, if and when we get to use more than one mech per drop as is rumored in upcoming CW then I do *not* think that the 'auto-switch' thing will work.

For example, if your dropship allows a a 150 ton loadout you'll be able to drop with both your AS7 and your CN9. Let's say you decide to use the AS7 first and if it's destroyed your CN9 is deployed.
So you outfit the AS7 with both those modules. Hence your CN9 can NOT be outfitted with the SRM6 range module (cause you only bought one in this example) because it's already on the DDC.

There's where buying more than one module "makes sense."

Now I realize we are not at that point yet, so a "save my module loadout" that auto-pulls from other mechs that are not being used is completely reasonable.

BUT (and it's a BIG butt), I still think modules should be deleted from MWO and all our C-bills refunded.
But that's a topic for another post....

[VixNix]

Defender Rococo Rockfowl, on 24 September 2014 - 03:32 PM, said:

The current system of unlocking with GXP and then paying C-bills for a single module makes sense.
Modules are treated like a virtual "physical item." So when you buy one, you only have one, which is why we have to take it out of one mech to put in another.
The same way you would with a video card for example. If you have it installed in one PC, you can't have it in any other until you remove it from the PC its installed in.
So having one module "magically" installed in all your mechs doesn't make much sense.

But I think what you're actually trying to do with your suggestion is to have a boatload of modules that you get when you pay the price of one.
Kind of like all the soda you can drink at McDonald's when you pay for a cup.
Sound about right?

No, I'm actually against that because it devalues the modules and it's unfair to anyone who has ever saved up and bought more than one module to put in their mechs.

I haven't bought a module yet but I am thinking about those who have.

I really hope the module system does not change from what it is now.
Just add an option to auto-remove modules from your builds and a search function to find a module if you have a lot of mechs.

not really, you still only have 1...

but because you cant take out more than 1 mech its just a time saver...

in reality you can take weapons and other equip and move them around too.

and six million c-bill is enough to pay one time...

[The Iron Chancellor]

It boggles my mind as to why nothing has been done on this issue for this long a time period, whats even more puzzling is why every single time it is brought up in one format or the other, no response of any description is given from the developers on it.
I consider a solution to this annoyance to be of greater importance to me than any other future content yet to be delivered (I dare say, even CW, even new maps), because objectively, a solution to this would make the game objectively more enjoyable to everyone, by spending LESS time dragging items around like a lemming, and more time playing.

For illustration sake of why this is required, I will give my own example.
I have 9 mechs which I switch between regularly, all of them brawlers.
I decided that I like improved Gyros towards making them more effective in a face to face fight.
But I also hate switching stuff through this current UI.
And since Improved Gyros are cheap (Relatively speaking to modules), I figured, Ill buy duplicates to save me the annoyance (I personally cant blame anybody who has bought duplicates, I tried playing with just switching the same one module, but doing that across 9 mechs, absolutely maddening).

The removal of this annoyance cost me an additional 16 Million Cbills, for a total cost of 18 Million Cbills (a little bit more than a freaking direwhale for pete's sake), which could have gone towards another mech (or two).
Now this is concerning one of the cheaper modules out there,
if I wanted to get Target Info Gathering for these 9 mechs,
again to avoid the annoyance, Id have to spend a total sum of 36 Million CBills (This is worth multiple mechs at this juncture).

Then come the weapon modules,
most of which cost 3 Million a piece for a welcome benefit to a certain weapon.
Assuming all 9 mechs have the standard 2 weapon slots for use, that expense ends up at 54 Million Cbills total.

So, the total price for complete removal of interaction with the UI is

18 Million + 36 Million Cbills + 54 Cbills = 108 Million Cbills.

And this is one of the cheaper examples,
The price skyrockets when speaking of popular modules like Radar Derp or Seismic Sensor.
Not to mention all of this is for getting the full potential benefit out of 9 mechs.

It is because of this that I have given up my desire to collect a diverse variety of mechs, given the nightmare that
it would be to fullfill their maximum potential AND avoid the mess that is the UI.

As a direct result, I am done spending money on this game, I have no reason to buy more mech bay slots,
or hero mechs (more module expenses), or even premium time, while it would reduce the grind by a margin,
the margin is so low however, that it is hard to see the value for it when the grind is so freaking bloated out of proportion.

What would the ideal solution be? Making modules shared across all mechs, refunding the duplicate modules people purchased.
What would be the next best thing? an auto-pull checkbox like the OP suggested.
What would be the least effective solution? 'Find modules on our mechs' or 'strip all modules' mechanic
as has been suggested in the past, since this would not make the problem go away, but mitigate its effects by a small margin (mainly for those who have a large collection, however it will not make the overall nuisance of switching the damn things go away) .

Thing is, I am tired of hearing about these modules being 'end-game', they provide advantages too good to be viewed as 'Want to own them, dont have to own them' items.
Besides, aren't we playing this game because of the fighting mechs? not a laborious 'gear-treadmill' type experience?.

What Id like is some acknowledgement, Id like a dev to show up and say "No, this will never happen because its too profitable for us", or "Yes it will happen in X months in Y format", at least make SOME reply on this subject which keeps reappearing in suggestions over and over again.

Or perhaps dumping a rant like this into general discussion would be more effective, since there at least the devs seem to be active with their replys somewhat these days.

/End Angry Rant.

Edited by The Iron Chancellor, 25 September 2014 - 12:13 AM.

[DAEDALOS513]

The Iron Chancellor, on 24 September 2014 - 11:58 PM, said:

It boggles my mind as to why nothing has been done on this issue for this long a time period, whats even more puzzling is why every single time it is brought up in one format or the other, no response of any description is given from the developers on it. I consider a solution to this annoyance to be of greater importance to me than any other future content yet to be delivered (I dare say, even CW, even new maps), because objectively, a solution to this would make the game objectively more enjoyable to everyone, by spending LESS time dragging items around like a lemming, and more time playing. For illustration sake of why this is required, I will give my own example. I have 9 mechs which I switch between regularly, all of them brawlers. I decided that I like improved Gyros towards making them more effective in a face to face fight. But I also hate switching stuff through this current UI. And since Improved Gyros are cheap (Relatively speaking to modules), I figured, Ill buy duplicates to save me the annoyance (I personally cant blame anybody who has bought duplicates, I tried playing with just switching the same one module, but doing that across 9 mechs, absolutely maddening). The removal of this annoyance cost me an additional 16 Million Cbills, for a total cost of 18 Million Cbills (a little bit more than a freaking direwhale for pete's sake), which could have gone towards another mech (or two). Now this is concerning one of the cheaper modules out there, if I wanted to get Target Info Gathering for these 9 mechs, again to avoid the annoyance, Id have to spend a total sum of 36 Million CBills (This is worth multiple mechs at this juncture). Then come the weapon modules, most of which cost 3 Million a piece for a welcome benefit to a certain weapon. Assuming all 9 mechs have the standard 2 weapon slots for use, that expense ends up at 54 Million Cbills total. So, the total price for complete removal of interaction with the UI is 18 Million + 36 Million Cbills + 54 Cbills = 108 Million Cbills. And this is one of the cheaper examples, The price skyrockets when speaking of popular modules like Radar Derp or Seismic Sensor. Not to mention all of this is for getting the full potential benefit out of 9 mechs. It is because of this that I have given up my desire to collect a diverse variety of mechs, given the nightmare that it would be to fullfill their maximum potential AND avoid the mess that is the UI. As a direct result, I am done spending money on this game, I have no reason to buy more mech bay slots, or hero mechs (more module expenses), or even premium time, while it would reduce the grind by a margin, the margin is so low however, that it is hard to see the value for it when the grind is so freaking bloated out of proportion. What would the ideal solution be? Making modules shared across all mechs, refunding the duplicate modules people purchased. What would be the next best thing? an auto-pull checkbox like the OP suggested. What would be the least effective solution? 'Find modules on our mechs' or 'strip all modules' mechanic as has been suggested in the past, since this would not make the problem go away, but mitigate its effects by a small margin (mainly for those who have a large collection, however it will not make the overall nuisance of switching the damn things go away) . Thing is, I am tired of hearing about these modules being 'end-game', they provide advantages too good to be viewed as 'Want to own them, dont have to own them' items. Besides, aren't we playing this game because of the fighting mechs? not a laborious 'gear-treadmill' type experience?. What Id like is some acknowledgement, Id like a dev to show up and say "No, this will never happen because its too profitable for us", or "Yes it will happen in X months in Y format", at least make SOME reply on this subject which keeps reappearing in suggestions over and over again. Or perhaps dumping a rant like this into general discussion would be more effective, since there at least the devs seem to be active with their replys somewhat these days. /End Angry Rant.

Very well said.. you speak with passion and it shows. I posted this topic under 3 different sections in the forums (to make sure it was seen by a developer as I find the topic important) and a moderator/developer locked them all except for this one. The point is, he never gave us a response to the topic.

This module problem is one of the reasons this game is still a 'beta stage' game. Personally I don't believe they have a clue where to take the module system, that is why I started this topic to maybe help them out a bit.

Edited by DAEDALOS513, 25 September 2014 - 05:37 AM.

[beartraps]

why not make the module window show that you have "X" number or 1 of that module.You hit an arming button and it carries it over to your present Mech.No harm ot foul as you can only fight 1 Mech at a time anyway

[VixNix]

beartraps, on 25 September 2014 - 05:56 AM, said:

why not make the module window show that you have "X" number or 1 of that module.You hit an arming button and it carries it over to your present Mech.No harm ot foul as you can only fight 1 Mech at a time anyway

Several different suggestions have been made, all of which help out with this situation.

I don't know that one is better than another, at least not until some get fleshed out more.

I am for ANYTHING that makes this work faster than it currently does.

[DAEDALOS513]

VixNix, on 25 September 2014 - 06:06 AM, said:

Several different suggestions have been made, all of which help out with this situation.

I don't know that one is better than another, at least not until some get fleshed out more.

I am for ANYTHING that makes this work faster than it currently does.

I just wish the people that are voting 'no' explain why they are doing so. Only then can we come up with the perfect solution!

SPEAK UP, don't be shy

Edited by DAEDALOS513, 25 September 2014 - 06:09 PM.

[Egomane]

Voted for no, because such a mechanism is a lazy-mans way out.

You want to swap between different mechs fast, but have the same modules in them? Then earn it! Play for it!

Added Bonus: While you play for it, you are the content of the game.

[The Iron Chancellor]

Well maybe 'the content' would rather spend more of his time within games in which progression is not so great of a burden, and spend his money there.

Unlocking modules with GXP and requiring 3 variants of the same mech is enough of a time consuming progression system.
But this module-uncomfortableness (and more to the point, the desire to avoid said uncomfortableness)
bloats progression out of any reasonable boundry.

Perhaps some people love Grindy-Korean MMO type experiences, I personally despise it, and would rather invest elsewhere,
where my mind is more on the subject of having fun and less about avoiding menial-tasks that shouldn't be there in the first place.

[VixNix]

Egomane, on 25 September 2014 - 07:27 AM, said:

Voted for no, because such a mechanism is a lazy-mans way out.

You want to swap between different mechs fast, but have the same modules in them? Then earn it! Play for it!

Added Bonus: While you play for it, you are the content of the game.

It's not lazy to improve process.

It's excessive to expect people to pay for the same thing over and over for no reason.

I already earned/played for it.
Making me take the time to swap it out instead of being able to make valid mech builds on each mech including it just sucks.

Making people pay for multiple modules just to save time is BS.

[Ens]

true thing is:

the module grind is the most horrible one....even with premium time

[VixNix]

Why cant mech xp be used to buy modules?

IMO it's because you wont spend real money to convert useless mech xp to GXP to unlock modules...

nothing to spend the mech xp on after you have elite on your mech.

[Egomane]

Ok... I have already seen a thread that asked for all equipment to be available for all mechs once bought, without the need to rebuy it. Now modules and what is next? Mechs and mechbays?

If we do that, what is left of the game that PGI can use as an incentive for players to buy premium time, to earn XP and c-bills faster? This game lives by players grinding for the next big thing. Be it mechs or modules. Take that from the game and you will kill a lot of the financial input and incentive to play. How do you expect to replace that?

No, I stand by my reason. You want it multiple times, you have to earn it multiple times and by that be a part of the game.

Edited by Egomane, 25 September 2014 - 08:55 AM.

[VixNix]

Egomane, on 25 September 2014 - 08:55 AM, said:

Ok... I have already seen a thread that asked for all equipment to be available for all mechs once bought, without the need to rebuy it. Now modules and what is next? Mechs and mechbays?

If we do that, what is left of the game that PGI can use as an incentive for players to buy premium time, to earn XP and c-bills faster? This game lives by players grinding for the next big thing. Be it mechs or modules. Take that from the game and you will kill a lot of the financial input and incentive to play. How do you expect to replace that?

No, I stand by my reason. You want it multiple times, you have to earn it multiple times and by that be a part of the game.

Not happening, MODULE SHUFFLE is happening.

The people who play and pay want it changed...

You can stand by it or on it, it's your opinion and you are welcome to it.

That doesn't change others opinions that its not needed, its a waste of time, it slows down queue times because people are swapping modules instead of selecting a mech and hitting the join button...

This is a feature suggestion forum, you know where people can feel free to makes suggestions...

[Egomane]

VixNix, on 25 September 2014 - 09:00 AM, said:

Not happening, MODULE SHUFFLE is happening.

Are you serious? That's a bold statement to make. You better have a source for it to back it up. It didn't answer my questions, though.

So what is your solution for those problems?

VixNix, on 25 September 2014 - 09:00 AM, said:

This is a feature suggestion forum, you know where people can feel free to makes suggestions...

Yes, it is! They can also discuss those suggestions and show up the shortcomings of those ideas. So you have to live with it, that there are those who disagree. The OP even asked for our opinion, just a few posts back.

Edited by Egomane, 25 September 2014 - 09:32 AM.

[Darwins Dog]

I voted yes just to voice my opinion that I don't like the current system. I've seen a number of suggestions (even made one myself) that would alleviate this problem. Just about any of them would be acceptable.

My unit has instituted a rule for when we drop against each other. No modules. Or more specifically, no swapping. Once the drop decks are figured out, you get in your mech and go. If you don't have modules, then that's the way it goes. It saves about 10-20 minutes per match (as in, the entire length of a match).

[VixNix]

Egomane, on 25 September 2014 - 09:30 AM, said:

Are you serious? That's a bold statement to make. You better have a source for it to back it up. It didn't answer my questions, though. So what is your solution for those problems? Yes, it is! They can also discuss those suggestions and show up the shortcomings of those ideas. So you have to live with it, that there are those who disagree. The OP even asked for our opinion, just a few posts back.

Ego, there have been other threads made by people to ask for this, I made one another poster above made one...
So yeah i stand by my statement, SOME people do buy multiples, I even have a few of the less expensive ones from back when c-bill were not so hard to come by.

But the modules that cost SIX MILLION c-bills, no way man, just not going to happen, WE who choose to module swap want another option to do so easily or to be able to equip it on multiple mechs.

PGI needs to fix this and other aspects, I don't think they have any issues with income because of modules...
If they do link it so i can check it out.