192 replies to this topic

[MauttyKoray]

Pjwned, on 22 September 2014 - 01:45 PM, said:

Now I remember why I hate building new mechs in this game, and in a game like this where customization is such a big deal that doesn't seem like a good sign. Due to the way the mech tree works I grind out matches for several hours so that I can play one mech variant optimally (excluding an additional module slot from mastering it) and then after all is said & done I don't even feel like playing because it was such an annoying hassle, especially at the end. This is also on top of spending a huge amount of c-bills (which took a while to build up) for overpriced heavy mechs and several million more c-bills on top of that for some new weapon modules, and now I don't have enough c-bills to get another set of mech variants beyond 40 tons unless I want to pay real money (LOL no) or grind even more just to have the "privilege" of MORE GRINDING.

The grinding nonsense in this game is and has been killing my enjoyment greatly and it overshadows pretty much every improvement I can think of since I started playing, especially now that weapon modules add even more grind since there's no reason to not take them unless you want to deliberately have a sub-optimal mech in a competitive mech shooter game.

Before anybody suggests buying premium time or hero mechs or whatever else then that's not happening because I'm not going to spend money to alleviate a worthless, crappy grindfest; I might possibly spend money on the game for other reasons, but not for that, ever.

If you think that any 'upgrading' of any mech is 'required', well, please hit yourself for me. I can take the stock variants of any mech and play them. Maybe not to the effect that tryhard cheese builds do but enough to make the reasoning behind needing to upgrade and grind every mech perk and module come out empty and worthless.

The problem isn't the grind to make little improvements in a mech to change its gameplay. Its that you need to learn to play to the strengths of each mech and enjoy what you're doing. If you're not having fun playing a brand new mech, then you should just stop playing as you won't have any fun with this game then.

[Mothykins]

Pjwned, on 22 September 2014 - 09:12 PM, said:

Fair enough, doesn't seem like it has much value if all you do is pay to not deal with an insufferable grind then, just a less annoying but just as tedious and worthless grind.

I think the Thing we need more than a Earning boost is something to actually fight for. Right now it's like We're in a box canyon. And the only reason we've got a base there is because the other team also has a base there.

God-damn I would kill for a Co-op Campaign.

Barring that, I'd love a mode that gives us about half an hour to an hour of game play at a stretch, with some form of player based placement of drop zones and objectives. Something to let us make our own small campaigns. Preferably something that encourages something other than "Rush the other team and kill them FTW"

[Pjwned]

ice trey, on 22 September 2014 - 09:13 PM, said:

Not really.

There's a difference between playing, and competing.

Playing, you're just there to have a good time.

Competing, you're only there to win, and if you're not winning, you're not having a good time.

The game is just a versus play team game, the game is not competitive by nature. When the match is over, no difference is made. Whether or not a game is competitive is what you make of it. If I play street fighter with my friends, I might take a good character, I might take a bad character. I don't care. Either one I'm learning how to use, and improving my ability to adapt. I guarantee that if you were to go to a tournament setting, people who were playing the street fighter game would use nothing but Ken, Ryu, and/or Akuma over and over and over again, completely ignoring the other 30-some characters, only because they're not "Optimized". The thing is, they're probably competing for SOMETHING, whether it's bragging rights, a trophy, some prizes, or money.

In MWO, there is none of that. No bragging rights, no trophy, no prizes, no money. I don't see why the forever pursuit of keeping min-max'ed to the meta is even a thing. Sure, swapping out stuff because you can't get comfortable with it, or maybe just swapping things out so that the number of weapons groups needed is reduced, but calculating optimal DPS, crit placement and all that jargon? Nah, no thanks. So long as I can fill a role, even if the role is "General purpose", I'm good.

If you're fighting other players to destroy them and win that sounds like a competitive game to me, competitive doesn't necessarily mean taking it super seriously.

MauttyKoray, on 22 September 2014 - 09:17 PM, said:

If you think that any 'upgrading' of any mech is 'required', well, please hit yourself for me. I can take the stock variants of any mech and play them. Maybe not to the effect that tryhard cheese builds do but enough to make the reasoning behind needing to upgrade and grind every mech perk and module come out empty and worthless.

The problem isn't the grind to make little improvements in a mech to change its gameplay. Its that you need to learn to play to the strengths of each mech and enjoy what you're doing. If you're not having fun playing a brand new mech, then you should just stop playing as you won't have any fun with this game then.

Right, sorry, I forgot that stock mechs such as Jenners were not basically a worthless deathtrap that overheats constantly.

Edited by Pjwned, 22 September 2014 - 09:24 PM.

[Sergeant Random]

Cavale, on 22 September 2014 - 09:05 PM, said:

Yo, Even with a Job the prices are steep and they don't really alleviate the grind. Not Worth it.

I don't disagree that prices are steep compared to some other online games. But I think the Marketing Department knows how old diehard Battletech fans are - and knows how much they would spend on the franchise (by looking at the sales of their previous products). Sad to say, Battletech was a rich kid's hobby.

Which doesn't dismiss the fact that if they want to grow in the free-to-play market, they might want to strike a better balance. Of course, they have their sales numbers and server activity data to analyze - who knows what conclusions they are drawing?

----

Or one might want to think this way: $30.00 for a koshi and a bunch of premium time and freebies? ... Compared to how much movies, popcorn and soda... A movie is about 3hrs, I'll be enjoying my koshis for at least the time to grind them... (of course, it still depends on what you think is enjoyable)

Edited by Sergeant Random, 22 September 2014 - 09:33 PM.

[Destructicus]

Pjwned, on 22 September 2014 - 09:12 PM, said:

What the hell are you even going on about? I suggest taking your meds, maybe try projecting less.

I also notice in that screenshot you blocked out any and all additional XP modifiers, so um...cool story.



Fair enough, doesn't seem like it has much value if all you do is pay to not deal with an insufferable grind then, just a less annoying but just as tedious and worthless grind.

The thing is the grind isn't always insufferable*
Maybe some of us like having something to work towards.
Just because it's a grind doesn't mean I can't enjoy it.
And you're determined to be upset about it.

[ice trey]

Pjwned, on 22 September 2014 - 09:21 PM, said:

If you're fighting other players to destroy them and win that sounds like a competitive game to me, competitive doesn't necessarily mean taking it super seriously.

Then that would defeat the meaning of saying that someone wants to be "Competitive", because the minute you clicked "Launch", you'd be competing. The only way to not be competitive would be to never drop.

No, worrying about being "Competitive" is just complaining that you're losing too much and you're looking for an easy come-uppance to beat the other team, because losing at all is too much of a burden to bear.

MWO is a multiplayer game, It is a team-versus-team game, but it only becomes a competitive game if you MAKE it a competitive game.

Destructicus, on 22 September 2014 - 09:31 PM, said:

The thing is the grind isn't always insufferable*
Maybe some of us like having something to work towards.
Just because it's a grind doesn't mean I can't enjoy it.
And you're determined to be upset about it.

I just wish that there was something else to work towards besides grinding the next trio of mechs on the list.

[Destructicus]

ice trey, on 22 September 2014 - 09:37 PM, said:

Then that would defeat the meaning of saying that someone wants to be "Competitive", because the minute you clicked "Launch", you'd be competing. The only way to not be competitive would be to never drop.

No, worrying about being "Competitive" is just complaining that you're losing too much and you're looking for an easy come-uppance to beat the other team, because losing at all is too much of a burden to bear.

MWO is a multiplayer game, It is a team-versus-team game, but it only becomes a competitive game if you MAKE it a competitive game.


I just wish that there was something else to work towards besides grinding the next trio of mechs on the list.

well that's on PGI
and I hope that comes
but until then
This is what we have to grind towards.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Cavale, on 22 September 2014 - 09:20 PM, said:

I think the Thing we need more than a Earning boost is something to actually fight for. Right now it's like We're in a box canyon. And the only reason we've got a base there is because the other team also has a base there.

To be fair, that's all TF2 really was for the longest time, and it was still fun to play even despite it being a twitchy shooter. The gameplay just felt better, combined with the ability to be competitive with stock items (the stock Rocket Launcher is still probably one of the best RL for the soldier) and play any role without putting any money down definitely added to it. Here you are stuck with trials that don't stay too viable for long with meta shifts and we all know how bad a large chunk of the stock mechs are unless you are just an uber player who handicaps themselves for better fights (or play SMM, which I wish was a permanent game mode).

The problem for me is that 3rd party league support is non-existent. CW won't be a catchall for players, it will leave a good chunk of the player-base wanting more than CW can ever offer (I am one, MW4 leagues spoiled me).

Edited by WM Quicksilver, 22 September 2014 - 09:41 PM.

[ice trey]

Destructicus, on 22 September 2014 - 09:38 PM, said:

well that's on PGI
and I hope that comes
but until then
This is what we have to grind towards.

The problem is, I'm running out of Drac mechs to grind.

I'm going to have to start dipping into stuff that doesn't fit the faction, soon.

[Pjwned]

Destructicus, on 22 September 2014 - 09:31 PM, said:

The thing is the grind isn't always insufferable*
Maybe some of us like having something to work towards.
Just because it's a grind doesn't mean I can't enjoy it.
And you're determined to be upset about it.

Why should that grind come at the cost of mechs that accelerate/turn/brake/twist/aim slower, run slower, overheat faster, fire weapons slower, etc. until you finally the achieve the goal hours later then? This is on top of the grind to get various equipment like chassis, engine, weapons, upgrades like DHS and endo steel, and other stuff, and of course playing unwanted mechs to achieve the goal is annoying in itself and adds even more on top of the grind for extra equipment.

ice trey, on 22 September 2014 - 09:37 PM, said:

Then that would defeat the meaning of saying that someone wants to be "Competitive", because the minute you clicked "Launch", you'd be competing. The only way to not be competitive would be to never drop.

No, worrying about being "Competitive" is just complaining that you're losing too much and you're looking for an easy come-uppance to beat the other team, because losing at all is too much of a burden to bear.

MWO is a multiplayer game, It is a team-versus-team game, but it only becomes a competitive game if you MAKE it a competitive game.


I just wish that there was something else to work towards besides grinding the next trio of mechs on the list.

Mhm, if you say so, there's only 1 level of competitive and that's super serious.

[Mercules]

Pjwned, on 22 September 2014 - 01:45 PM, said:

Before anybody suggests buying premium time or hero mechs or whatever else then that's not happening because I'm not going to spend money to alleviate a worthless, crappy grindfest; I might possibly spend money on the game for other reasons, but not for that, ever.

So... System is set up to encourage you to get tired of the grind and spend a little money. You get tired of the grind. However the typical solution isn't an option. Okay.... Guess what... You are going to hate the grind. Enjoy your time in MWO.... you will be spending a LOT of it grinding.


Yep, I spent money on the game. That way ungrateful doinks like yourself could complain about how you either have to grind or spend money. Despite your ungrateful nature I'm still happy you could enjoy the game I and so many others paid to keep alive. Good thing we are not all like yourself or the servers would have closed before Beta Ended.

[Destructicus]

Pjwned, on 22 September 2014 - 09:45 PM, said:

Why should that grind come at the cost of mechs that accelerate/turn/brake/twist/aim slower, run slower, overheat faster, fire weapons slower, etc. until you finally the achieve the goal hours later then? This is on top of the grind to get various equipment like chassis, engine, weapons, upgrades like DHS and endo steel, and other stuff, and of course playing unwanted mechs to achieve the goal is annoying in itself and adds even more on top of the grind for extra equipment.

I'm pretty sure I said earlier that it's not a perfect system
The DHS upgrade is basically a tax
You're gonna grind those cbills either way
And as to the why?
Why not?
PGI made those calls and you can't do anything about it.
You're going to grind something no matter what
If it wasn't 'X', you'd complain about 'Y'

[Sergeant Random]

Sigh.

I can't go to my boss to complain that getting a promotion is too much of a grind. Or that some of my assigned tasks are too challenging for my limited experience.

But of course, MW:O is not real life. It's just a game.

I really need kinder words.

Paying for a taxi buys me the time I save by not having to walk (or work my ass off to get my own car). I can't afford my own car, so I go by taxi. If I can't go by taxi, I guess I have to walk.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

I think people have come to expect that there will and should be a grind in any F2P, and I'm pretty sure that the game is doing something wrong if that is they at least half of the player-base views it, paid player or not.

There is a big difference between having to play to earn a reward, and grind to earn a reward. I believe there is a great Extra Credits video on this very subject as well that explains the problem a lot more in-depth than I ever could.

Part of what separates these two though imo, is allowing people to play to earn specific rewards rather than allow random rewards. Again, I use TF2 as an example because I enjoyed playing it, and don't remember really "grinding" for anything, I just played enough with the hope that the next drop would be the item I really wanted. This is the sort of mentality that random drops for simply playing encourages as opposed to the performance based minor earning system that we put up with now. To say that it is impossible to transpose this into MWO would be a very faulty view, it just isn't plausible considering PGI has been rather stubborn on this particular issue.

[Sergeant Random]

Aha! I should bribe my boss!

Or butter him up with cupcake...

[Elizander]

aniviron, on 22 September 2014 - 02:32 PM, said:

Not true at all. Off the top of my head, Path of Exile and Spiral Knights both have no grind; both have leveling systems, and neither can be sped up by paying, either.

Path of Exile has no grind? Are you kidding me? Hunting for maps over and over and doing them over and over and so on and grinding for orbs and hoping to some unknown diety that RNG blesses you with a 6-link? I think your definition of grinding is a bit skewed.

[Khaze]

The hostility against those who play mostly for free is astounding. These people are potential customers here voicing their opinion on why they're not spending any money, and they're met with insults and called "entitled little whiners"?

This game legitimately has problems with it's finance model, a testatement to it are all the friends I've introduced to the game who just dropped it completely after 50 or so matches. Why? Because the game is deliberately locking all the fun behind a paywall..

I don't have the numbers on if this is actually a viable strategy, I guess PGI wouldn't be keeping this up if it wasn't, but what I do know is that I can't keep my friends playing this game. Friends who *love* the franchise. Make of that what you will.

[Sergeant Random]

PGI, hear the newbies out and give mechbays or cockpit items for some of the achievements. Maybe a gauss rifle for their first headshot.

[NeoCodex]

Grinding is fun. Gives a sense of achievement, and makes you learn more about different chassis once you play them. It's a good thing they are releasing more mechs, I was running out of stuff to grind. *shrugs*

[Sergeant Random]

It takes a special breed to slog through all those match losses in trial mechs. It's like Marine bootcamp.

Of course, PGI, don't narrow down your target market - show us good design for your "new player experience".

Oh no! Does marketing have stats for how much server load can be supported by the monthly income?