192 replies to this topic

[Tumbling Dice]

I too hate to grind, but after I have unlocked all the variants, I take some time to enjoy the fruits of my labor. Sounds like the OP wants it all but without the grind. That's what MC is for. The MC purchases help you side step the grind and keep the game flowing. If we all stop buying MC, you will no longer need to grind. You will be free to play any other free to play you want. The grind is what entices me to buy MC. That's how the game works.

Take a break from the grind and play your unlocked Mechs for a bit. Kill some stuff and rack up the C-bills. Don't make it an occupation, as that is what leads to your frustration.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Destructicus, on 22 September 2014 - 06:42 PM, said:

I'm not saying players who play free don't matter.
I'm saying players who play for free shouldn't complain about how hard it is to get free stuff.

They can depending on how plausible it is to get stuff and the way it is gone about.

Outrageous pricing on items doesn't help much either, either the grind to buy mechs should be long or the grind to master mechs should be long, but both is kinda silly. If you bought a mech and it came mastered already, it may make the outrageous pricing seem a little bit better and make those mechs that are simply bad at least skippable (like the SDR-5V).

[Mothykins]

Heeeey, Lookit this, I paid into Talon, And Own Sarahs Jenner and a Jester.

And the Grind is steep. I was pretty much told If I didn't play more than three hours a day I wasn't playing enough, and to buy stuff if I didn't like it. See, I buy stuff like the Jester because I like the game and want to have fun, not so I can get to the fun.

Destructicus? You're being a tool. Firstly, you just told him to beat it because he's a free player that didn't matter, then told him that "Nono, Free Players totally matter, you're just not allowed to complain when free actually isn't."

The game shouldn't feel like you HAVE to pay to get things. I've done the math on average Mech costs, earnings, and if you only play two hours a day, it will take you THREE MONTHS to get Three Summoner chassis to Master them without Premium or Hero Mechs. That's a really long time, for just THREE CHASSIS. This feels like a "Pay or never get anywhere."

I had someone tell me this wasn't Pokemon and I didn't need every Chassis. Unfortunately, If I want to try clan mechs, I need three of each chassis to Unlock elite, and If I even want, say, two of them (Vulture and Loki, let's say?) That will still be HALF A YEAR. This is unacceptable. Even as a free thing, because the game is, in fact, toted as Free to Play. Being told, "Hey, you need three months to fully unlock a single clan mech" Is sorta like playing TF2 and being told "Hold it, hold it, you can only play the Medic for the next three months. Then you can play the Scout." the analogy is a bit flawed, but the intent is about the same.

Just because you're rich and apparently can spend four or five hours a day in the game and can apparently blow $50 a month on Premium time doesn't mean other people can, or should have to. Grab a brain.

[Pjwned]

Valore, on 22 September 2014 - 06:27 PM, said:

Some of the variants are downright rubbish compared to the main one that people use, for example Ravens, Spiders, Cicadas and Atlases.

But others possibly feel bad because they carry weapon loadouts that you might not be used to, say if one is a Ballistic focused mech and you prefer missiles/lasers.

Being forced to pilot one will never be fun, but you could always try to look at it as trying out weapons you'd normally never use.

For example, I used to hate ballistics. Gauss and AC20s are now my favourite weapons.

Yes, hardpoints and restrictions can be bad. But I think they also occasionally force us to try something new which does come with unexpected perks.

I'm not really all that inexperienced with most (worthwhile) weapon systems except the PPC and AC20, not that there are all that many in the first place. It's actually much more of an issue adjusting to different (read: slower) top speeds, and while I can accept that being a thing I don't find it fun or worthwhile or sensible to deal with a crappy grindfest in a competitive game where I have the odds stacked against me because I didn't put in enough time towards the soulless grind or alternatively drop enough cash to satisfy the never ending supply of idiots that always squeal WELL YOU DIDN'T PAY ENOUGH MONEY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! in response to everything (see above) because I don't have a prominently displayed whale badge.

It's funny that many detractors never seem to address the actual problems I have with the system and instead go with BLUH BLUH ENTITLED BLUH GRIND ISN'T SO BAD YOU'RE JUST BAD, it's not really surprising at this point though.

[Destructicus]

WM Quicksilver, on 22 September 2014 - 06:56 PM, said:

They can depending on how plausible it is to get stuff and the way it is gone about.

Outrageous pricing on items doesn't help much either, either the grind to buy mechs should be long or the grind to master mechs should be long, but both is kinda silly. If you bought a mech and it came mastered already, it may make the outrageous pricing seem a little bit better and make those mechs that are simply bad at least skippable (like the SDR-5V).

I don't think you realize that it's supposed to be grindy, that's the incentive to spend money, you chose not to do so.
Working as intended.

[Pjwned]

Destructicus, on 22 September 2014 - 06:33 PM, said:

So anything you disagree with is nonsense?

Way to throw any credibility you may have had out the window.

I was more referring to you misrepresenting the argument as being nonsense, in addition to being a strawman fallacy. I also fail to see how you have any more credibility in this discussion, which is to say if I have zero credibility then I don't see how you have any either, especially given your non-arguments.

Quote

My point is that you have an option to throw down for premium time or other features, instead, you choose to play for free, then complain about how hard it is to get ****, instead of being happy you have a free game to play.

It's a bad option for a bad system, condemning people to sub-optimal builds because they don't grind (or pay) enough is stupid and so far you've completely ignored that in favor of squealing about entitlement.

Destructicus, on 22 September 2014 - 07:00 PM, said:

I don't think you realize that it's supposed to be grindy, that's the incentive to spend money, you chose not to do so.
Working as intended.

That doesn't make it a good system, it only makes it a grind.

Edited by Pjwned, 22 September 2014 - 07:07 PM.

[Mothykins]

Destructicus, on 22 September 2014 - 07:00 PM, said:

I don't think you realize that it's supposed to be grindy, that's the incentive to spend money, you chose not to do so.
Working as intended.

It's not working as intended if it drops the player base.

Let's say for every one fellow who sticks it out from the FTP, two quit from the grind. Not only are you going to have a lot more stale matches (Your opponent pool drops down a lot) but Those people who quit from the grind? They're gonna tell people that the game is impossible Unless you pay. So you're not gonna get new players. I hope to heck you like playing the same fifty or so people in your ELO, or being expected to carry 11 new players against 12 average players, because you'll be seeing more of this.

Yes, it needs to have grind, but the amount of grind is out of hand, even more-so if you play lights. Ever wonder why they usually have low 10% of players? Because you can't make any currency playing them. They're worthless.

So, yes, not working as intended, especially not with Clans now in the loop, at a significantly higher price point to boot.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Destructicus, on 22 September 2014 - 07:00 PM, said:

I don't think you realize that it's supposed to be grindy, that's the incentive to spend money, you chose not to do so.
Working as intended.

Not if you aren't having fun or you can't skip the grind. Premium time only reduces the grind, not skip it (which is what it should do). TF2 feels far from a grind, you play and get stuff on every once in a while, that's how this should feel, but it isn't even close. It doesn't help that you are penalized for actually trying new stuff out and experimenting with inventory costs and such.

Edited by WM Quicksilver, 22 September 2014 - 07:13 PM.

[Destructicus]

Pjwned, on 22 September 2014 - 07:06 PM, said:

I was more referring to you misrepresenting the argument as being nonsense, in addition to being a strawman fallacy. I also fail to see how you have any more credibility in this discussion, which is to say if I have zero credibility then I don't see how you have any either, especially given your non-arguments.

There you go again, dismissing me simply because I have a different opinion.
|

Pjwned, on 22 September 2014 - 07:06 PM, said:

It's a bad option for a bad system, condemning people to sub-optimal builds because they don't grind (or pay) enough is stupid and so far you've completely ignored that in favor of squealing about entitlement.

Nobody said it was a perfect system
And no, saying you're an entiled whiner isn't my argument, my argument is that you should be happy with what you get for free.

Pjwned, on 22 September 2014 - 07:06 PM, said:

That doesn't make it a good system, it only makes it a grind.

Again
Nobody said it was a perfect system.

Bottom line
Devs gotta eat and they didn't have to make this game free to play, they could made it subscription based or a flat out 30 bucks.
You can either sit there and stew about how you don't like it, throw 10 bucks at the game or leave.

In any case, you seem determined to be unhappy, so you're going to stay that way.

Edited by Destructicus, 22 September 2014 - 07:14 PM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Destructicus, on 22 September 2014 - 07:14 PM, said:

Bottom line
Devs gotta eat and they didn't have to make this game free to play, they could made it subscription based or a flat out 30 bucks.
You can either sit there and stew about how you don't like it, throw 10 bucks at the game or leave.

In any case, you seem determined to be unhappy, so you're going to stay that way.

I don't think them eating was ever the problem until maybe now, it was the Publisher hanging the plug over their head, now they have turned away many new customers that might've brought more money for change when IGP was removed from the picture.

Edited by WM Quicksilver, 22 September 2014 - 07:21 PM.

[Mothykins]

Destructicus, on 22 September 2014 - 07:14 PM, said:

Nobody said it was a perfect system
And no, saying you're an entiled whiner isn't my argument, my argument is that you should be happy with what you get for free.

That's pretty much exactly what you just said, but worded differently. You're not fooling anyone.

Destructicus, on 22 September 2014 - 07:14 PM, said:

Again
Nobody said it was a perfect system.
Bottom line
Devs gotta eat and they didn't have to make this game free to play, they could made it subscription based or a flat out 30 bucks.

Yes, so If It's not perfect, why not try to suggest ways to fix it instead of telling people to get rekt?

Destructicus, on 22 September 2014 - 07:14 PM, said:

You can either sit there and stew about how you don't like it, throw 10 bucks at the game or leave.

In any case, you seem determined to be unhappy, so you're going to stay that way.

Dude. That's not Being helpful. That's outright dismissing him and telling him to suck it up. You're not a good person, if anything you are the entitled brat here because "NO ONE SHOULD PLAY THIS FREE TO PLAY TITLE WITHOUT PAYING TO PLAY THIS FREE TO PLAY TITLE. I HAVE MONEY, I AM BETTER THAN YOU."

[Destructicus]

WM Quicksilver, on 22 September 2014 - 07:12 PM, said:

Not if you aren't having fun or you can't skip the grind. Premium time only reduces the grind, not skip it (which is what it should do). TF2 feels far from a grind, you play and get stuff on every once in a while, that's how this should feel, but it isn't even close. It doesn't help that you are penalized for actually trying new stuff out and experimenting with inventory costs and such.

You wanna skip the grind?
Buy the mech
Unlocking efficiencies is supposed to be grindy
This isn't TF2 and you could talk all day about how 'x' is "supposed to feel" but in the end this isn't TF2.

Cavale, on 22 September 2014 - 07:22 PM, said:

Dude. That's not Being helpful. That's outright dismissing him and telling him to suck it up. You're not a good person, if anything you are the entitled brat here because "NO ONE SHOULD PLAY THIS FREE TO PLAY TITLE WITHOUT PAYING TO PLAY THIS FREE TO PLAY TITLE. I HAVE MONEY, I AM BETTER THAN YOU."

Is that what I said?
Don't put words in my mouth.
That's a fool's cop out.
I chose to support the game and in turn I got certain things.
he has the option to make the every thing he's complaining about a bit easier but he chooses not to.
at that point there is nothing that can be done.

WM Quicksilver, on 22 September 2014 - 07:21 PM, said:

I don't think them eating was ever the problem until maybe now, it was the Publisher hanging the plug over their head, now they have turned away many new customers that might've brought more money for change when IGP was removed from the picture.

It's a figure of speech.
And I fail to see how IGP was in any way for PGI or the game.
IGP did more harm than good.

[Kushko]

Pjwned, on 22 September 2014 - 01:45 PM, said:

Now I remember why I hate building new mechs in this game, and in a game like this where customization is such a big deal that doesn't seem like a good sign. Due to the way the mech tree works I grind out matches for several hours so that I can play one mech variant optimally (excluding an additional module slot from mastering it) and then after all is said & done I don't even feel like playing because it was such an annoying hassle, especially at the end. This is also on top of spending a huge amount of c-bills (which took a while to build up) for overpriced heavy mechs and several million more c-bills on top of that for some new weapon modules, and now I don't have enough c-bills to get another set of mech variants beyond 40 tons unless I want to pay real money (LOL no) or grind even more just to have the "privilege" of MORE GRINDING.

The grinding nonsense in this game is and has been killing my enjoyment greatly and it overshadows pretty much every improvement I can think of since I started playing, especially now that weapon modules add even more grind since there's no reason to not take them unless you want to deliberately have a sub-optimal mech in a competitive mech shooter game.

Before anybody suggests buying premium time or hero mechs or whatever else then that's not happening because I'm not going to spend money to alleviate a worthless, crappy grindfest; I might possibly spend money on the game for other reasons, but not for that, ever.

We've been trying to tell them how poorly designed and thought out the "grind 3 for 1" system is since closed beta but they're clearly dead set on it (they even did it to the clan mechs which makes no sense since with omnipods they're pretty much 3 of the same mech). In closed beta they hinted that the skill system is only temporary and something beefier/better thought out is coming, but alas that is still nowhere to be found, unless they meant the module system which in itself is almost as bad as far as originality, fun and pointless grinding goes. Tbh id rather them cut cbill/xp gain to 33% than have to get 3 mechs just to max out 1, but that boat has sailed years ago.

Ive learned to live with it, even though ill never agree with it.

[Destructicus]

Cavale, on 22 September 2014 - 07:11 PM, said:

It's not working as intended if it drops the player base.

Let's say for every one fellow who sticks it out from the FTP, two quit from the grind. Not only are you going to have a lot more stale matches (Your opponent pool drops down a lot) but Those people who quit from the grind? They're gonna tell people that the game is impossible Unless you pay. So you're not gonna get new players. I hope to heck you like playing the same fifty or so people in your ELO, or being expected to carry 11 new players against 12 average players, because you'll be seeing more of this.

Yes, it needs to have grind, but the amount of grind is out of hand, even more-so if you play lights. Ever wonder why they usually have low 10% of players? Because you can't make any currency playing them. They're worthless.

So, yes, not working as intended, especially not with Clans now in the loop, at a significantly higher price point to boot.

If you think lights are worthless then you need to reevaluate how you play lights.
It's not that nobody plays lights, it's that more people play heavier mechs.

[El Bandito]

The "Level three to play one" is a dumb system. I would much prefer to grind the one variant that I really like, for three times the required XP, instead of slogging through other 2 variants that I hate.

Edited by El Bandito, 22 September 2014 - 07:35 PM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Destructicus, on 22 September 2014 - 07:28 PM, said:

You wanna skip the grind?
Buy the mech
Unlocking efficiencies is supposed to be grindy
This isn't TF2 and you could talk all day about how 'x' is "supposed to feel" but in the end this isn't TF2.

I meant the grind to unlock efficiencies which is far worse, not the grind to get mechs.

Destructicus, on 22 September 2014 - 07:28 PM, said:

It's a figure of speech.
And I fail to see how IGP was in any way for PGI or the game.
IGP did more harm than good.

Using figures of speech generally aren't very good in rational discussions, just saying. As for IGP, I never said they were good, but they paid PGI's bills and paychecks, not the customers.

Edited by WM Quicksilver, 22 September 2014 - 07:35 PM.

[Mothykins]

Thread has been taken over by D and his one man crusade. Not worth talking to. Done.

[Destructicus]

WM Quicksilver, on 22 September 2014 - 07:35 PM, said:

I meant the grind to unlock efficiencies, not the grind to get mechs.

So what?
You want powerful mechs out of the box?
There always has to be a grind

I live 30 miles south of you.
If I ever meet you we're gonna have a long talk about how f2p is supposed to work.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Destructicus, on 22 September 2014 - 07:38 PM, said:

So what?
You want powerful mechs out of the box?
There always has to be a grind

I live 30 miles south of you.
If I ever meet you we're gonna have a long talk about how f2p is supposed to work.

So wait, if you pay actual money, you can only skip one grind, that seems silly does it not, especially compared to other successful F2P games?

[Pjwned]

Destructicus, on 22 September 2014 - 07:14 PM, said:

There you go again, dismissing me simply because I have a different opinion.

I was addressing you saying that I want everything free and easily and how I said that's a nonsense strawman, I don't see how that's dismissing your opinion even if I clearly don't agree with it in the least.

Quote

Nobody said it was a perfect system
And no, saying you're an entiled whiner isn't my argument, my argument is that you should be happy with what you get for free.

So apparently saying that I'm just an entitled whiner earlier is not saying that I'm an entitled whiner, cool logic.

Quote

Again
Nobody said it was a perfect system.

Bottom line
Devs gotta eat and they didn't have to make this game free to play, they could made it subscription based or a flat out 30 bucks.
You can either sit there and stew about how you don't like it, throw 10 bucks at the game or leave.

In any case, you seem determined to be unhappy, so you're going to stay that way.

If it's not a perfect system but you don't agree with my statements then how would you fix it? I put forth why I think it's a bad system, apparently all you care about is taking a **** on other peoples' grievances with the the game though.