516 replies to this topic

[Dark DeLaurel]

Destructicus, on 22 September 2014 - 07:03 PM, said:

Good pilots will wreck face with a twolf even with a nerf.

Good pilots can take any `Mech and make it work, for the fact they are good pilots. Give them something better and of course they will "wreck face".

We are unable to balance pilot skill, so the above statement is kind of well...uh...not good.

[XxXAbsolutZeroXxX]

To those who say the timberwolf needs a nerf.

What specific area needs nerfing?

How would you nerf the timberwolf, how would it improve game balance overall?

[Ultimax]

Destructicus, on 22 September 2014 - 06:39 PM, said:

Did I say it was?
I'm speaking in regards to CW and straight up Clan vs IS matchmaking.

We don't even know what CW will look like, and that's the only place we will see IS vs. Clan.

PGI has even stated that some mechs will not be present or limited on some battles.

Destructicus, on 22 September 2014 - 06:39 PM, said:

Three under preforming IS mechs that still underperformed prior to clans

So what is the point ? That underperformers are underperforming compared to a heavier mech with a better engine?

Having some mechs be worse, doesn't make the Summoner "good".

5 is not higher than 6, just because 3 and 4 exist.

Destructicus, on 22 September 2014 - 07:03 PM, said:

The Summoner isn't bad, it's just bad compared to the Timberwolf.

I'll say it's a bad mech, and I've mastered it.

I had more fun in the Adder.

Arms are too low and far from the torso hardpoints, tonnage is ridiculously low for 70T mech.

5x JJs are a waste with how JJs work,.

It has bad hitboxes, etc.

Kushko, on 22 September 2014 - 07:20 PM, said:

The heaviest clan heavy mech should be at the top of the heavy food chain.

Yeah I'm not sure why people have an issue with this - apparently it was OK when their Thunderturds, and Quickdraws were outclassed by CTFs and Jagers though.

The CTF is not far behind, and it's 5 tons lower.

Edited by Ultimatum X, 22 September 2014 - 08:32 PM.

[Destructicus]

Dark DeLaurel, on 22 September 2014 - 08:21 PM, said:

Good pilots can take any `Mech and make it work, for the fact they are good pilots. Give them something better and of course they will "wreck face".

We are unable to balance pilot skill, so the above statement is kind of well...uh...not good.

You took it out of context
I'm saying that any potential nerf will not effect good pilots.
My wish is simply that the Timberwolf took more skill to pilot.

[Lightfoot]

Mad Cat is pretty fragile with the missile racks, not so much without them. Maybe just make the racks default equipment would be enough. I don't see the Mad Cat as being more powerful except that the Mad Cat can come in many shapes and some will be very effective for the map terrain. Let's not make MWO into arcade mush where all mechs must be identical. An advantage can be counterbalanced by a disadvantage such as the big ears on the default Mad Cats.

[Destructicus]

I Zeratul I, on 22 September 2014 - 08:30 PM, said:

To those who say the timberwolf needs a nerf.

What specific area needs nerfing?

How would you nerf the timberwolf, how would it improve game balance overall?

mobility and heat
The ST nerf will be nice, but it's going to further cripple under preforming mechs.

[Mystere]

Destructicus, on 22 September 2014 - 08:36 PM, said:

mobility and heat

I don't think subjecting the TW to the Victor "treatment" is what I Zeratul I was asking for.

[mongo2006]

Destructicus, on 22 September 2014 - 08:31 PM, said:

You took it out of context
I'm saying that any potential nerf will not effect good pilots.
My wish is simply that the Timberwolf took more skill to pilot.

We've already taken many nerfs and the stats are about the same, to the point some clan mechs have no viable use. That is a clear and defined point of over nerfing. New pilots to the game in Timber Wolfs do no better than any other mech statistically in the data that is readily available on this forum.

[Destructicus]

mongo2006, on 22 September 2014 - 08:39 PM, said:

We've already taken many nerfs and the stats are about the same, to the point some clan mechs have no viable use. That is a clear and defined point of over nerfing. New pilots to the game in Timber Wolfs do no better than any other mech statistically in the data that is readily available on this forum.

I guess it's my fault I haven't made myself clear
I want to roll back the current nerfs and have the Timberwolf looked at specifically.
But yes
They do
It's not skill
The Timberwolf is an incredibly easy mech to play.
Firepower of an atlas with the speed of a medium
And if you want to pull data, then please refer to the "clan mechs won 70% of matches" data collected from pure clan vs is matchmaking.
You think you owe your victories to skill?
No.
You're playing an easy mech.

Edited by Destructicus, 22 September 2014 - 08:49 PM.

[SaltBeef]

Engine crit rules hit should apply to all engines. Not just implemented on destruction of a torso. I CT is crit but not destroyed the engine should suffer from he hit. ALL MECHS IS or CLAN should feel the effects of hits to the engine.

[Destructicus]

Ultimatum X, on 22 September 2014 - 08:31 PM, said:

I'll say it's a bad mech, and I've mastered it.

I had more fun in the Adder.

Arms are too low and far from the torso hardpoints, tonnage is ridiculously low for 70T mech.

5x JJs are a waste with how JJs work,.

It has bad hitboxes, etc.

I've mastered both
Does that make my opinion as valid as yours?

The summoner isn't bad, it just doesn't do anything extraordinary.

Devilsfury, on 22 September 2014 - 08:18 PM, said:

Per MechWarrior lore: (small snips) Clans invaded using advanced technology, beyond that of Star League. Using their technological superiority and impressive combat prowess.
So again, Clans are SUPPOSED to be much better mechs and pilots. Their technology is far superior to IS and it isn't until much later that IS mechs were up to par. Now, I do agree he Clan mechs are strong by lore...they are better in every way. What is the point in having the Clans come in and being the same or worse than the IS?????????

Did you not see the post where Russ said they didn't wan to do that in this game?
It's all fine and dandy in other Mechwarrior games, but this isn't those.
In a competitive game, how exactly is it fair to have one side inherently stronger than the other?
They shouldn't be op, they should be different.

[Dark DeLaurel]

Destructicus, on 22 September 2014 - 08:31 PM, said:

You took it out of context
I'm saying that any potential nerf will not effect good pilots.
My wish is simply that the Timberwolf took more skill to pilot.

No i didn't, i am just trying to point out in a very round about way that by making the Timber Wolf worse through "nerfs" (kids these days and their new fangled internet language ) you are making the chassis harder to use for the new/not good/bad/terribad/insert other phrase here pilots.

So their starting point with it is even worse than it is now. Once it is out for C-Bills someone new to the game is going to go "man i want one of those things cause it killed me dead real quick like" (or how ever people say that now days) and get one, then all of a sudden they are sucking harder than a prostitute up in Ft. McMurray (inside joke for anyone from Alberta) and then give the game up or jump on the forums here and want the `Mech "buffed" because they can not use it 25% as well as the `Mech the just hopped out of.

[Destructicus]

Dark DeLaurel, on 22 September 2014 - 09:04 PM, said:

No i didn't, i am just trying to point out in a very round about way that by making the Timber Wolf worse through "nerfs" (kids these days and their new fangled internet language ) you are making the chassis harder to use for the new/not good/bad/terribad/insert other phrase here pilots.

So their starting point with it is even worse than it is now. Once it is out for C-Bills someone new to the game is going to go "man i want one of those things cause it killed me dead real quick like" (or how ever people say that now days) and get one, then all of a sudden they are sucking harder than a prostitute up in Ft. McMurray (inside joke for anyone from Alberta) and then give the game up or jump on the forums here and want the `Mech "buffed" because they can not use it 25% as well as the `Mech the just hopped out of.

I'm not saying make it so only skilled pilots can play it well.
I'm saying it shouldn't be easy mode.

This game has a steep enough learning curve as it is
If a noobie wants to stick with it enough to grind up to the inevitably high cbill cost the twolf will have that guy is going to hav ea faint idea of how to play.
Now if this dude was brand new to the game and the only mech he knows from Mechwarrior is the Timberwolf and he decides to pay for it with MC the very first time he plays the game, then I agree, it's gonna be hard.

Edited by Destructicus, 22 September 2014 - 09:15 PM.

[XxXAbsolutZeroXxX]

Destructicus, on 22 September 2014 - 08:36 PM, said:

mobility and heat
The ST nerf will be nice, but it's going to further cripple under preforming mechs.

Heat nerfs would mainly affect ER medium lasers and ER large lasers. Both laser types have been significantly nerfed with longer durations. This morning I tried boating five ER large lasers and a separate build with 8 ER medium lasers in a direwolf with poor results. Its hard to focus laser damage on moving targets.

In spectator mode, I see a lot of timberwolves shut down often due to heat. They alpha their ER medium lasers in bursts of 4 with SRM's or other weapons & shut down repeatedly. I think a heat nerf is unncessary due to the weapon type heat affects most -- lasers already being nerfed. Additional heat penalties could render the timberwolf unplayable for many. People are still using alphas and seem to not realize chain firing was invented.

Maneuverability wise, it was tougher to destroy light mechs before clan release. Sometimes I wonder if clan mechs broke the speed and maneuverability balance of the game. Not only because clan mechs have good speed and turn rates. Clan LRM's having no minimum range reduces the safety zone inside 180 lights used to thrive on.

When people say the timberwolf is overpowered and needs nerfing.

Sometimes I think what they're really saying is: the timberwolf is more powerful than a catapult or jagermech.

I wonder if people tend to forget the jager and catapult are 65 ton mechs.

The timberwolf is a 75 ton mech.

The timberwolf is supposed to be better than a jager or catapult, its 10 tons heavier.

The orion atm is the closest thing in the inner sphere's arsenal clocking in at 75 tons.

What if most of us haven't used an orion enough to know whether the timberwolf is overpowered in comparison?

Mystere, on 22 September 2014 - 08:39 PM, said:

I don't think subjecting the TW to the Victor "treatment" is what I Zeratul I was asking for.

That's a good point.

People complained the victor and highlander were op.

It might be good not to overreact & jump to conclusions as far as things being op go.

[Destructicus]

I Zeratul I, on 22 September 2014 - 09:15 PM, said:

When people say the timberwolf is overpowered and needs nerfing.

Sometimes I think what they're really saying is: the timberwolf is more powerful than a catapult or jagermech.

I wonder if people tend to forget the jager and catapult are 65 ton mechs.

The timberwolf is a 75 ton mech.

The timberwolf is supposed to be better than a jager or catapult, its 10 tons heavier.

I agree
It should be better than those two
but it shouldn't be better than those two combined.

I'm not saying nerf it to death
I'm saying nerf it in line to where it has it's place with other clans mechs instead of making it the go to clan mech.

[Dark DeLaurel]

Destructicus, on 22 September 2014 - 09:15 PM, said:

I'm not saying make it so only skilled pilots can play it well.
I'm saying it shouldn't be easy mode.

This game has a steep enough learning curve as it is
If a noobie wants to stick with it enough to grind up to the inevitably high cbill cost the twolf will have that guy is going to hav ea faint idea of how to play.
Now if this dude was brand new to the game and the only mech he knows from Mechwarrior is the Timberwolf and he decides to pay for it with MC the very first time he plays the game, then I agree, it's gonna be hard.

Thats kind of the thing though, no matter how much the thing gets toned down the skilled folk will still be able to make it work period. They do with the Victor and Highlander, and we all would be surprised at how awful people can still play even if they can grind to buy a Timber Wolf with C-Bills, and as you pointed out there is always the MC option.

It really will always be an easy mode `Mech because of where it falls into the tonnage range and for how for once PGI has stayed pretty true to its TT roots.

[Destructicus]

Dark DeLaurel, on 22 September 2014 - 09:20 PM, said:

Thats kind of the thing though, no matter how much the thing gets toned down the skilled folk will still be able to make it work period. They do with the Victor and Highlander, and we all would be surprised at how awful people can still play even if they can grind to buy a Timber Wolf with C-Bills, and as you pointed out there is always the MC option.

It really will always be an easy mode `Mech because of where it falls into the tonnage range and for how for once PGI has stayed pretty true to its TT roots.

See what I'm trying to suggest is for skill to thrive while facerolling get's nerfed.
I want good pilots to use the mech to it's full potential and for mediocre pilots to learn how to play it.
everybody thinks I want to nerf it to the ground.
Instead this post has made me out to be some kind of anti-clan monster

Edited by Destructicus, 22 September 2014 - 09:26 PM.

[charov]

The TW doesn't need a nerf, just a CT hitbox a bit wider. It's too damn easy to tank and spread damage.

[Dark DeLaurel]

Destructicus, on 22 September 2014 - 09:25 PM, said:

See what I'm trying to suggest is for skill to thrive while facerolling get's nerfed.
I want good pilots to use the mech to it's full potential and for mediocre pilots to learn how to play it.
everybody thinks I want to nerf it to the ground.
Instead this post has made me out to be some kind of anti-clan monster

Dont get me wrong i understand your intentions but unfortunately i just dont think it will work out that way, track records have showing this to us

[Kain Demos]

What kind of person actually CALLS for nerfs?

Hopefully they never nerf anything again. There isn't a way to just bring down the Timberwolf anyway and Clan weapons have been gimped enough.

If you suggest putting it in negative quirk hell then you need your head examined and its a good thign they are finally freeing the Victor because nerfs like that are just plain stupid and uncalled for.

Edited by Kain Thul, 22 September 2014 - 09:46 PM.