15 replies to this topic

[FFK ClouD]

If you hit jump jets in almost any mech game then you would move in one predictable direction. It's kind of cool but it always leads to a big problem...

you fly: you die

The relaxed jump jets means you get a few more evasive options.

For example: turn your torso left to face your opponent and then hit your left jump jet... you would fly toward your opponent and possibly over his head. In the same situation you could hit the right jump jet to fly away from your opponent to add more distance OR duck behind a building.

This would give you 3 options for jump jets. Normal Jump Jet button would take you in the direction your legs are facing. Left and right would also be in relation to your legs.

I never know if my opponent is going to do a normal left or right... So his movements become less predictable and there is some added skill for him to maneuver and some added skill for me to take him down. This idea was originally in Mechwarrior 3 and I hope to see it again someday.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

No thank you.

Relaxed Jump Jets just don't fit the kind of game this is trying to be... Also the idea was originally in Mechwarrior 2. And was a toggleable option in 3, which mean's it wasn't meant to be part of the main game, much like invulnerability and unlimited ammo and no heat.

[Icebound]

I think it's a cool idea.

Maybe if they made them have less thrust/fuel than the normal ones and weigh more it could be balanced?

I'd prefer whatever is in TT though in the spirit of keeping everything balanced / canon.

[Hyzoran]

I think Light mechs should have them but they should be ineffective for medium mechs, anything heavier shouldnt be able to mount them.

[FFK ClouD]

I would not consider relaxed Jump Jets the same thing as Unlimited Ammo or no heat...come on that's not a fair comparison.

If you played MW3 then you know that relaxed jump jets weren't even an option to bid. Everyone used them because it was so valuable to surviving. Just because it was a toggle doesn't mean it was wrong or a cheat.

If I remember correctly the parameters for bidding in leagues were: (Map / Game Type / MFBs on/off.) You couldn't even bid for relaxed jump jets to be turned off. No league ever forced players to turn them off because it was an integral part of the gameplay.

Look at a game that's currently doing it wrong: Tribes Ascend. There is a reason the top snipers in that game can shut down an entire offense: You fly...you die. The flying in Tribes is very much one button for one direction so the best snipers in the game can always lead their shots into the direction their targets are flying and as a result they dominate. I don't want to see that same kind of thing happen here.

EDIT: I've got to echo Icebound and Hyzoran's suggestions for balance. Good ideas all around. I was never "Lore guy" or "Simulation guy." I'm much more interested in seeing something that's viable for league play so that's where I'm coming from when I look at these types of things.

Comparing Relaxed JJ's to UA and No Heat? That's just not fair and I think most would agree. :c)

Edited by FFK ClouD, 23 June 2012 - 09:13 AM.

[Vulpesveritas]

I think the devs said somehting about they already have something like this, but if you want to change direction while jumping you have to stop the jumpjets, point in another direction, and then launch the JJs again. Or something like that.

I may be wrong though.

[FFK ClouD]

@Vulpesveritas

If that kind of mid-air direction changing does make it into the game then it could be interesting but the post was about something else. I do remember seeing this in MW3 but I was convinced it was a bug because it just didn't "look right." Then again what did in those days? Graphics and physics on any game were pretty bad. You would basically do these really sharp 90 degree turns mid-air...it was odd lol.

The weird thing is that this mid-air turning was often just not as good as using relaxed jump jets. The relaxed jump jets looked more natural and gave you some interesting options for getting closer to or farther from your opponent. It's not a post about changing directions in mid-air it's a post about choosing a direction from the start of the jump.

One example I didn't think about before is a mech standing still and his torso is centered. Hit the normal Jump Jet and the mech flies straight up. If the mech is moving forward then obviously you jump straight up and forward.

"Relaxed Jump Jets:" Standing still hold "Jump Jet: Left" and the mech goes straight up and straight left. If the mech is moving forward then this would translate some of that forward momentum into the left jump and you would land your jump forward and to the left of where you started (diagonal.)

EDIT: This movement is independent of any direction your upper torso is facing. It's more based upon the direction your legs are facing. It's kind of hard to type into words but I hope that the developers would implement this even in just an internal test build and see for themselves how satisfying it is to fight each other with this kind of movement.

Edited by FFK ClouD, 23 June 2012 - 11:14 AM.

[Chunkymonkey]

I hated how in mechwarrior 4 if you were still and you used them, you barely moved at all.

[Strum Wealh]

Vulpesveritas, on 23 June 2012 - 09:52 AM, said:

I think the devs said somehting about they already have something like this, but if you want to change direction while jumping you have to stop the jumpjets, point in another direction, and then launch the JJs again. Or something like that.

I may be wrong though.

Well, that would seem to fit with the BT rules...

Quote

’Mechs must be standing at the start of the turn in order to jump. When a unit jumps, it can move 1 hex for every available Jumping MP. It may jump in any direction, regardless of its original facing. The player chooses a target hex for the unit to jump into, and then the unit travels to that hex along the shortest possible route landing with any facing desired.

(Total Warfare, pg. 53)

That seems to indicate that one can jump in any given direction, and is able to change the BattleMech's facing - but not its trajectory - during the jump...

[FFK ClouD]

Strum Wealh, on 23 June 2012 - 11:00 AM, said:

That seems to indicate that one can jump in any given direction, and is able to change the BattleMech's facing - but not its trajectory - during the jump...

So basically: This could be interpreted as supporting relaxed jump jets (since it's one direction?) I'm a newb at the mech universe...I really just enjoy this stuff for the gameplay and I would totally give up turning in mid air if relaxed JJ is possible.

[Strum Wealh]

FFK ClouD, on 23 June 2012 - 01:56 PM, said:

So basically: This could be interpreted as supporting relaxed jump jets (since it's one direction?) I'm a newb at the mech universe...I really just enjoy this stuff for the gameplay and I would totally give up turning in mid air if relaxed JJ is possible.

As I read it, the rule is that any one jump is limited to one direction of motion (one may jump forward, backward, left, right, or any one direction in-between) and may not change the trajectory (that is, one may not move in an "airborne L"/zig-zag/"pull off Armored Core style aerobatics"/etc in a single jump) BUT one can change their facing (that is, one can rotate the 'Mech about its height-axis during a single jump).
As such, changing direction of motion could be accomplished by multiple jumps with landing in-between (that is, jump-left, land, jump-right, land, jump-forward, land, and so on).

Is that what is meant by "relaxed jump jets?"

[FFK ClouD]

Strum Wealh, on 23 June 2012 - 02:29 PM, said:

As such, changing direction of motion could be accomplished by multiple jumps with landing in-between (that is, jump-left, land, jump-right, land, jump-forward, land, and so on).

Is that what is meant by "relaxed jump jets?"

Yes that's what I mean by it. I think. On a game it would have maybe 3 different buttons for your keyboard or joystick. One button jump jets left, another one jump jets right, and the last one is a normal jump. If you already have forward or backward ground speed going then the left and right buttons would go more diagonal.

Say you are walking forward and want to jump to a ledge up on the right. You could: Turn your mech right then do a normal jump straight toward the ledge...OR you could keep your mech moving straight and just hit jump-right. OR you could turn your mech REALLY hard then hit jump-left. Each one is a different way to get on that ledge.

I think this could add to the game because if you only have one jump button then your opponent knows where to aim if he sees you start to jump...right above your head. Instead if you hit the jump-right button then your mech would move up (to the sky) and to the right. It means your opponent has to look and then aim. Straight up? up and Right? up and Left? If they just blindly assume you're flying straight they might almost hit one of your legs but miss your mech.

Before you even start flying...you decide which to push.

Technically this is enough but in a 3d game some mid-air direction control would be cool...still I understand if they need to follow some rules and can't do that.

Edited by FFK ClouD, 25 June 2012 - 10:38 AM.

[Landeraxe]

It's a good idea. Anything that follows TT is good IMO.

[Mechteric]

Jump Jets like in MWLL would be preferred, as you get the benefit of directional jetting, a quick boost that can help get you out of the way of weapons fire, and covers distance very quickly.

[DisasterTheory]

FFK ClouD, on 23 June 2012 - 10:47 AM, said:

@Vulpesveritas

If that kind of mid-air direction changing does make it into the game then it could be interesting but the post was about something else. I do remember seeing this in MW3 but I was convinced it was a bug because it just didn't "look right." Then again what did in those days? Graphics and physics on any game were pretty bad. You would basically do these really sharp 90 degree turns mid-air...it was odd lol.

Yeah i remember all the "cool-kids" doing this while in games agianst us..... they thought they were so elite untill that big, yellow UAC shell hit them in the cockpit lol.


Seems i had to edit my post... this forum dosen't like the C-word

Edited by BLOODREDSINGLE, 15 September 2012 - 12:08 AM.

[Adrienne Vorton]

hm i dunno... i just don´t want jumpjet-skating, to which direction ever... a more controllable jump would be cool though-.. the thing that vulpesveritas mentioned sounds interesting and improvable...

Edited by Adrienne Vorton, 17 September 2012 - 05:33 AM.