100 replies to this topic

[Kain Demos]

darkkterror, on 23 September 2014 - 08:18 AM, said:

For some reason I'm not imagining that procedural map generation and the current state of movement with how very small rocks and ridges can bring your 100 ton assault Mech to a halt going well together. That's just my initial impression. Who knows, maybe the procedural programming could be made in a way that it automatically smooths out these issues.

If (and I think that might be a big if) this can be done, then sure, why not?

It is funny you mention that....I got hung up on some sort of tiny little rock last night in my Dire Wolf and couldn't move at all and just got trashed.

[topgun505]

This would alter MWO to such an extent it would almost be a new game. Scouts would actually, you know, have to scout.

[EvilCow]

AlexEss, on 23 September 2014 - 08:55 AM, said:

Well MW2 mercs was also a *bleeep*ton less complex mapwise.

But if that is the kind of maps you like... I am sure someone made a mod to MW2 so you can play that.

It was also 18 years ago and non-generated maps weren't much different.

Terrains could be easily generated following a rules-driven model and applying sets of fixed textures, place random boulders and woods here and there and you have a viable map. There is no need to put many buildings, just place prefabs for bases in random spots that are flat enough, dropships would be nice too.

In Tribes you were able to create a map while people were playing on it, you could pick a player and place it somewhere else and place buildings taking them out of nowhere.

Please don't limit your vision of the possible to what you are used to live with.

Edited by EvilCow, 23 September 2014 - 12:09 PM.

[terrycloth]

How about a Minecraft level with 100% destructible terrain cubes. Until you blow up too much rock and everyone sinks into the lava.

[xhrit]

Heffay, on 23 September 2014 - 08:23 AM, said:

It would make matches a complete crap-shoot. You can't secure known areas. Just wander around blindly and hope you meet a smaller group of enemies with a larger group.

You mean, scouts would be actually useful? The horror!

[Rhent]

Procedural Map creation would not exactly be easy to code and I doubt it could be implemented in a fully released game.

[WM Jeri]

Heffay, on 23 September 2014 - 08:23 AM, said:

It would make matches a complete crap-shoot. You can't secure known areas. Just wander around blindly and hope you meet a smaller group of enemies with a larger group.

Wow sounds like would be ripe for the recon pillar of the game...maybe a satellite uplink module to get a view of terrain to plan movement only deployable on high ground, the resulting map view from sat could be shared to mechs with a command console etc. Start to look at things that would actually blend into the Fog of War and introduce elements that help mitigate the fog of war and make certain mechs and equipment have value leading to more variability in force composition. C-bill sinks to units to maybe get map intel just prior to launch showing LZ's and major terrain features, I don't know lots of possibilities in CW for this type of thing.

I like the dynamic aspect of chance as its played out time and time again in real war and would like a community warfare element that had some degree of this. We always said during ops that no plan survives contact with the enemy.

I can understand the balance in the normal non CW play aspect of the game but community warfare I would hope have a little more complexity to it. Either way mech's to shoot! But discussion is free! Nothing ventured nothing gained.

Edited by WM Jeri, 23 September 2014 - 07:10 PM.

[CocoaJin]

Bilbo, on 23 September 2014 - 08:18 AM, said:

The question is not whether it's possible. The question is whether or not the maps could be generated with spawn points that don't bias the outcome of the match.

Meh, this might not be much of an issue since the randomness of the generation would have bias odds that should essentially even out over time. Ok, this map might favor one side, but the next time you are on a map with a bias, it's bound to go in favor of the other side...and if not, it will even out eventually.

[merz]

i think procedural map generation is the future of MWO's advanced community warfare further down the line. Kind of breaks suspension of any disbelief when every planet looks like tourmaline or river city. and you already have worked out strategies for every map.. no real recon, no element of surprise.. quake 2 team death match.

[DAYLEET]

We had randomly created maps in Soldier of Fortune 2. They were great, you had to accept the fact that this game or the next you might get a map that favors greatly the opposition. Which wasnt necessarily a bad thing because the map is random and no one has ever played it so anything could happen.

I would welcome it in mwo, But seeing how some battletech nerds react to a fps port of their tabletop game they might commit suicide by qq if its implemented in CW. Then again id rather have fun than pretend to roleplay.

[Karamarka]

Bilbo, on 23 September 2014 - 08:18 AM, said:

The question is not whether it's possible. The question is whether or not the maps could be generated with spawn points that don't bias the outcome of the match.

lance captains that can choose where the dropship lands, code it so that the only landing zones chooseable are polar opposites of each other. idk

[MauttyKoray]

I think the better option here would be to have base static maps and have land features/objects throughout it 'rotate' in a randomized manner when the map is dropped, or even have set features/objects for different types of mission objectives or planets. I like the fully randomized one myself and feel it would allow planets to have multiple battles on them without being exactly the same every time.

[DROPSHIP]

If procedural map generation causes too many problems and would require too much time/resource investment to do, I would be happy if the size of all of the maps were increased to at least be as big as Alpine Peaks, and for objectives and some objects like buildings/structures to be randomly placed. Especially once we get 20, 30, even 50 maps in the rotation.

It could really benefit long term gameplay - especially the feel of Community Warfare.

Edited by DROPSHIP, 24 September 2014 - 06:38 AM.

[MW Waldorf Statler]

Procedual terrain for MWO ist very terrible ...PT can not use many Textures for the Ground , only different textures for different heights, PT in Games today can not Place Streets, or Buildings with sense for logic, can not place a Bridge over a river...it give the Lindenmayer systems or L-systems ,that can build very Complex unnatural structures (problem -place from little Details ...Streetlamps , Cars etc etc) thats systems in experimental progress

for working with Landscape Modules for a planet ,each Modul must have passing sides to passing with each other module (like the 4 Entry Roomodules in spacehulk)

http://www.thumbstic...ral-generation/

Edited by Old MW4 Ranger, 24 October 2016 - 08:53 AM.

[Hunka Junk]

Hmmm...what I was thinking about was procedural topography so that there would be new ripples in the map each time.

If that wouldn't jive with streets and trees and streetlamps, I wouldn't object to an experimental map that just has snow or sand dunes.

Or maybe there could be certain segments of a map that are procedural because they do not contain this other eye candy.

Not that it's gonna be in MWO anyway, but I'm excited in the long term. It's just a matter of time until that kinda stuff is the norm.

[GRiPSViGiL]

Very possible...just not with the ineptitude of PGI abilities.

[GotShotALot]

Procedurally generated maps are more of a PvE things. They keep PvE interesting and variable.

In PvP, as you see on any new map, people spend half the match wandering around aimlessly, trying to figure out where the battle should occur. Bad idea for 15 minute matches.

[Airwind]

sadly it will be hard to do in a 3D game like MWO with elevation. but a randomised tile could be done. like an open path in 1 game and in another there is debris blocking the path. or smoking ships or mechs from prior battles appearing on the map.

fully procedural would not be really good. even can be disadvantage to one side like 1 side having river tiles with no cover and another side having city tiles. a more controlled randomised tile would make a map less predictable and fresh in tactic.

sadly it will be hard to do in a 3D game like MWO with elevation. but a randomised tile could be done. like an open path in 1 game and in another there is debris blocking the path. or smoking ships or mechs from prior battles appearing on the map.

fully procedural would not be really good. even can be disadvantage to one side like 1 side having river tiles with no cover and another side having city tiles. a more controlled randomised tile would make a map less predictable and fresh in tactic.

[GrimRiver]

It won't be as bad as people think it will be.

PGI could make a handful of terrains

Then a handful of skyboxes

Then have trees, rocks or buildings

And finally blend them together in random but in preplaced locations.

It won't be truly random but the combo of those options will allow for quality over quantity while still allowing some randomization.

[Mole]

@OP: I would love this, but it will never even be attempted by PGI, and if it were attempted by PGI I have zero confidence in them to not **** it up so bad that it gets booed into the trashbin and scrapped altogether.