481 replies to this topic

[Triordinant]

Valore, on 25 September 2014 - 06:30 AM, said:

We do this all the time when not enough people have showed up for a full team. The games are as random as when we're in a bigger team.

Yet Mott's unit has the opposite experience. We need more data from more units if we are to have an accurate picture of what's going on in the group queue.

[VixNix]

Overall after archive Kills / Death 1,271 / 1,232 Kill / Death Ratio 1.03 Wins / Losses 994 / 1,046 Mech' Matches Played Wins Losses Ratio Kills Deaths Ratio Damage Done XP Earned Time Played Owned ATLAS AS7-D-DC 196 99 97 1.02 143 132 1.08 61,488 190,868 19:58:15 CATAPULT CPLT-K2 378 177 198 0.89 272 262 1.04 115,866 332,945 1 day 18:26:13 CATAPULT CPLT-C4 197 101 93 1.09 117 115 1.02 54,540 209,021 1 day 00:49:34 RAVEN RVN-3L 501 266 229 1.16 300 208 1.44 125,438 434,114 2 days 19:25:53 CICADA CDA-3M 214 97 113 0.86 170 121 1.4 65,296 190,960 1 day 01:56:44 Not owned/sold HUNCHBACK HBK-4P 37 17 20 0.85 10 25 0.4 5,531 26,861 3:36:07 JENNER JR7-F 60 29 31 0.94 34 34 1 10,927 44,527 6:35:57 CATAPULT CPLT-C1 110 50 60 0.83 48 78 0.62 26,134 88,026 12:31:02 CATAPULT CPLT-A1 36 17 18 0.94 30 21 1.43 12,315 39,656 4:25:33 ATLAS AS7-D 29 10 18 0.56 19 20 0.95 8,537 19,718 4:01:46 ATLAS AS7-RS 46 19 27 0.7 32 30 1.07 13,830 37,312 5:14:26 RAVEN RVN-2X 58 27 31 0.87 24 40 0.6 8,000 32,925 6:23:56 RAVEN RVN-4X 49 23 26 0.88 18 34 0.53 8,221 35,168 5:36:19 CICADA CDA-2A 14 6 8 0.75 4 12 0.33 2,014 7,678 1:05:14 CICADA CDA-3C 13 6 7 0.86 2 11 0.18 1,454 8,650 1:05:00 CATAPHRACT CTF-3D 13 4 9 0.44 6 9 0.67 3,996 9,000 1:25:20 CATAPHRACT CTF-4X 15 7 8 0.88 3 12 0.25 3,202 9,488 1:20:02 STALKER STK-3F 10 4 6 0.67 8 9 0.89 3,684 8,172 1:16:19 SPIDER SDR-5D 12 5 7 0.71 0 8 0 826 7,410 1:31:52 SPIDER SDR-5K 23 9 14 0.64 5 16 0.31 4,196 15,156 2:19:56 VICTOR VTR-9S 39 18 21 0.86 25 27 0.93 8,921 33,042 3:40:43 ORION ON1-K 1 0 1 0 0 1 0 232 316 0:06:05 THUNDERBOLT TDR-9S 5 2 3 0.67 1 5 0.2 904 1,918 0:21:22 NOVA NVA-PRIME(I) 2 1 1 1 0 2 0 209 909 0:08:13 NOVA NVA-PRIME 2 1 1 1 0 2 0 209 909 0:08:13 NOVA NVA-PRIME(G) 2 1 1 1 0 2 0 209 909 0:08:13

that didn't copy well, maybe it will copy excel, that where is came from

some one asked here it is, I have nothing to hide

I wish they kept track of group vs solo

[Mott]

Valore, on 25 September 2014 - 06:30 AM, said:

At the end of the day, the better players win.

The smaller the group you drop with, the less control you have over the quality of the remainder loaded into your team.

You could drop with a lance of 4 super-talented, ultra-hardcore players. And be put in a team with 8 other useless misfits (very likely actually because of attempted ELO balancing) vs a premade of 10 + a 2 man.

Those 4 great players are the best pilots of the 24 in that match, and they're still set to lose because of the coordination available to the 10-man and the fact that they are the plug in the crap team that MM was designed to build.

I'm not bitching just to *****. I like and enjoy challenge. I don't want clans nerfed, i want IS buffed, i was one of the loudest crying for no limits on group sizes in the group Q.

My point is simply that how MM is designed to build teams right now is broken and it's the reason we see so many steamrolls and why the Q feels so hardcore.
IF 12 mans only faced 12 mans, or 10+2 vs 10+2 etc... it would work great. But this deal of building one team first based on the largest group available, and then patching together anywhere between 2-5 smaller groups to make up their competitor... just isn't working well.

Edited by Mott, 25 September 2014 - 06:55 AM.

[Feetwet]

While I find the qroup queue very frustrating at times because my group is purely veteran casuals, if I had a choice between splitting the queue up further or leaving as is...I would leave it as is. I hated dropping in smaller limited groups more than I hate some of the stomps I have been subjected to.

Fix/Improve the way ELO/MM works when building teams and this problem begins to alleviate itself.

S

[Mott]

Feetwet, on 25 September 2014 - 07:01 AM, said:

While I find the qroup queue very frustrating at times because my group is purely veteran casuals, if I had a choice between splitting the queue up further or leaving as is...I would leave it as is. I hated dropping in smaller limited groups more than I hate some of the stomps I have been subjected to.

Fix/Improve the way ELO/MM works when building teams and this problem begins to alleviate itself.

S

Totally agree. Cannot bring back group Q group size limit. But finding some way to fix the MM is essential. A bandaid solution would be to tighten up the release valves a bit. Force larger groups to wait longer for their matches if there aren't tons of other large groups available to face.

For example, a 12 man should never, ever face a 2+2+2+6 or a 3+5+2+2. At the very least a 12man should ALWAYS have to face an 8man+2+2 or 8+4, or a 6+6. That would bring better balance to the matches.

Edited by Mott, 25 September 2014 - 07:10 AM.

[-Natural Selection-]

VixNix, on 25 September 2014 - 06:47 AM, said:

Wins / Losses 994 / 1,046

some one asked here it is, I have nothing to hide

I wish they kept track of group vs solo

So you are at .950, almost 50/50. As I suspect most in the game are. So what is the problem again?

BTW, mine is 1.21 and I play 99% of my matches in group que. And about 25% of that is in groups larger than 6.

[VixNix]

Mickey Knoxx, on 25 September 2014 - 07:10 AM, said:

So you are at .950, almost 50/50. As I suspect most in the game are. So what is the problem again?

BTW, mine is 1.21 and I play 99% of my matches in group que. And about 25% of that is in groups larger than 6.

...the issue is when I can get friends to play we have to go to group queue, we/they don't have fun, they don't want to play...

Win or lose isn't as important to me as FUN and if my friends don't want to play this game it isn't much fun for me either.

[Edustaja]

Mott, on 25 September 2014 - 06:51 AM, said:

You could drop with a lance of 4 super-talented, ultra-hardcore players. And be put in a team with 8 other useless misfits (very likely actually because of attempted ELO balancing) vs a premade of 10 + a 2 man.

That is actually not true. The matchmaker inflates Elo(not an acronym) for the larger groups already. Dropping smaller groups actually gives you advantage in player skill. Maybe this needs to be evaluated a bit more. We'll know more after the game mode switches are taken off.

This is a PVP game after all, for the ultra casuals and new players PVE would offer a more relaxed atmosphere with a higher win percentage than is possible against real players.

VixNix, on 25 September 2014 - 07:34 AM, said:

...the issue is when I can get friends to play we have to go to group queue, we/they don't have fun, they don't want to play...

Win or lose isn't as important to me as FUN and if my friends don't want to play this game it isn't much fun for me either.

You and your friends actually want PVE content where you can win more than 50%

Edited by Edustaja, 25 September 2014 - 07:56 AM.

[Felio]

I've all but quit the game over this. Played a few solo matches now and then, but I think I'm on the way out.

[-Natural Selection-]

VixNix, on 25 September 2014 - 07:34 AM, said:

...the issue is when I can get friends to play we have to go to group queue, we/they don't have fun, they don't want to play...

Win or lose isn't as important to me as FUN and if my friends don't want to play this game it isn't much fun for me either.

Well, mine had no fun and didn't play when it restricted group size mixed with solos. So I guess we are at a road block..

I enjoy seeing my friends list look like this, sorry

Edited by Mickey Knoxx, 25 September 2014 - 08:02 AM.

[Haipyng]

Mickey Knoxx, on 25 September 2014 - 07:39 AM, said:

Well, mine had no fun and didn't play when it restricted group size mixed with solos. So I guess we are at a road block..

Which is sort of the point. I get why the L2P crowd doesn't want to split the group queue. However, by not creating space for the casual group players you have no stepping stone from solo to the big boy group. You end up alienating a subset of players that may have stepped up to be more competitive players. The alternative is you frustrate them with a bunch of stomps, they stick with solo or drift off to other games which results in a smaller player base. Same happens if you step back from the full 12 man queue, you eliminate the competitive players.

The fix is the option to be able to drop with 1 to 4 man PUG groups (not in the solo queue). If your group is bigger than 4, then you have to drop in the big boy queue. The faster drops go to the singles or small groups that want to play in the big boy queue. You put that choice in the player's hands and you will satisfy more players. It doesn't need to be one way or the other.

Edited by Haipyng, 25 September 2014 - 08:11 AM.

[-Natural Selection-]

Haipyng, on 25 September 2014 - 08:04 AM, said:

The fix is the option to be able to drop with 1 to 4 man PUG groups (not in the solo queue). If your group is bigger than 4, then you have to drop in the big boy queue. The faster drops go to the singles or small groups that want to play in the big boy queue. You put that choice in the player's hands and you will satisfy more players. It doesn't need to be one way or the other.

Annd the first time 2 four mans from the same unit end up on the same team (intentional or not), we will be right back in here.. The same exact reason why multiple 4 mans were eliminated from the other que to begin with. Sorry, boss but there isn't a fix to this that does not have a bad ending down the road.

[alVolVloLy]

Within a week, if not sooner, that a 1-4 man queue is created there will be folks here complaining about "elite" units breaking into smaller groups to farm the 4 man queue. We will be no closer to a fix with that solution. IMHO

[jackal40]

Sorry, but the group queue is killing MWO for me and my few friends. At best we might get 4 of us playing on a given night, usally just 2 of us. After 4 or 5 12-2 stomps (in which we always are on the losing team), we either quit the group or quit playing that night.

Pay attention to the factions on your next drop - you'll in veritably see at least 8 or more with the same faction. Your team will have maybe 4 or 5.

This is the issue. Multiple 2 to 4 man group cannot successfully beat 8+ players of the same faction.

[Haipyng]

Mickey Knoxx, on 25 September 2014 - 08:15 AM, said:

Annd the first time 2 four mans from the same unit end up on the same team (intentional or not), we will be right back in here.. The same exact reason why multiple 4 mans were eliminated from the other que to begin with. Sorry, boss but there isn't a fix to this that does not have a bad ending down the road.

By people trying to game the system? Sure it is possible. But if they filter it out by Elo and affiliation or maybe clan (i.e. this 4 player group has dropped with this 4 player group before so they can't be on the same team this map) you can limit those to be the exception rather than the rule. Sort of like simultaneous dropping on the solo queue now. Far more rare than it used to be.

[Haipyng]

alVolVloLy, on 25 September 2014 - 08:19 AM, said:

Within a week, if not sooner, that a 1-4 man queue is created there will be folks here complaining about "elite" units breaking into smaller groups to farm the 4 man queue. We will be no closer to a fix with that solution. IMHO

I disagree. It will make for far fewer stomp games. If you have the uber 4 mans playing there is a chance your team has an uber 4 man of your own based on some sort of combined group Elo. Or maybe a mass push from your team might take them down. Even if you lose under those conditions at least it isn't as likely to be a 12-0 or 12-1 stomp.

I don't mind losing to the better players at all, I just want a fighting chance.

[VixNix]

Edustaja, on 25 September 2014 - 07:36 AM, said:

[/size] That is actually not true. The matchmaker inflates Elo(not an acronym) for the larger groups already. Dropping smaller groups actually gives you advantage in player skill. Maybe this needs to be evaluated a bit more. We'll know more after the game mode switches are taken off. This is a PVP game after all, for the ultra casuals and new players PVE would offer a more relaxed atmosphere with a higher win percentage than is possible against real players. You and your friends actually want PVE content where you can win more than 50%

"You and your friends actually want PVE content where you can win more than 50%"

do you not read?

Win or lose isn't the end all... yes its more fun to win blah blah blah...

Can I play solo and have fun?
Mostly yes, for me.

Can I play in groups with my friends and have fun?
Mostly no.

[-Natural Selection-]

Haipyng, on 25 September 2014 - 08:28 AM, said:

By people trying to game the system? Sure it is possible. But if they filter it out by Elo and affiliation or maybe clan (i.e. this 4 player group has dropped with this 4 player group before so they can't be on the same team this map) you can limit those to be the exception rather than the rule. Sort of like simultaneous dropping on the solo queue now. Far more rare than it used to be.

So supposedly 76% of drops were solo. That is 24% dropping as groups.

Say 25% of those drops are over 4 players. (using 25% based on person observations, not firm data)

So now you are talking about 18% of the drops being made, then filtered and split so that they don't land in match together.

And thennn "hopefully" in a couple months you toss in territory battles? The wait times to find people to make all this happen will be crazzzy.


Added* man I really understand where you are coming from as we had the same worries about what you are dealing with when group que came out. But I personally believe that when the new modes come out it will solve most of your issues. But by putting them under the gun to address this problem now just adds to the time of the other. And I am being VERY optimistic that they are close to their fall projection they made before. And if it takes another 6 months, then I guess we will all be having different issues with things lol.

Edited by Mickey Knoxx, 25 September 2014 - 08:52 AM.

[ApolloKaras]

I do want to mention that it does seem that MM attempts to weight the size of the group. I have noticed when I'm in a 12 man I have higher tendency to meet another 12 man, than if we were only running 4.

Edited by Saxie, 25 September 2014 - 08:49 AM.

[Edustaja]

Saxie, on 25 September 2014 - 08:49 AM, said:

I do want to mention that it does seem that MM attempts to weight the size of the group. I have noticed when I'm in a 12 man I have higher tendency to meet another 12 man, than if we were only running 4.

Yeah, the matchmaker is doing it's best to make a fair fight.
It's just short on players actually in the queue. The wait times can't be pushed too high either.
Casual groups would have no problems if there was an abundance of players.