20 replies to this topic

[DrainAtlantis]

Sorry guys I normally never post complains I mostly take it as it is.(because you guys are probably doing everything to get a balanced game)

But it has come to my attention that the life a mech has or the damage it does is going insane. I play the battletech games for a long time now including this one. And the main reason is because you don't die after one shot you get damage so it's about the tactics and carefully placed shots. But now it feels like getting one shot may kill you?

[Egomane]

Not a feature suggestion, moving to general discussions.

[FupDup]

This game's TTK is orders of magnitude higher than infantry-based FPS games like the infamous Call of Duty franchise. Is it different by large enough of a margin? Maybe, or maybe not. What's certain, though, is that you will almost always live a lot longer here than in those other games (which is okay).

[AlmightyAeng]

Headshotting someone in call of duty CAN be like sneaking your Atlas D-DC behind a motionless Raven 3L and one-shotting it...but I give props to the 100 ton sneaky ******* whereas as I curse the camping sniper

[Bront]

I've been one-shot several times in a light though the front Torso. Not sure how exactly either, and only since the Sept 9th patch.

Before that, nah, death can come quickly, but it's not usually a one shot (outside of the rare headshot)

[DEMAX51]

TTK (time-to-kill) is definitely quicker in this game than in tabletop, but there's not much to be done about that. Reason being, shots in TT hit a random location, and players in MWO can aim for specific locations. Players will always aim for the locations that will put an enemy down the fastest.

Still, TTK is WAY higher in this game than in something like COD. One-shots do happen, but they're not very common.

Bront, on 24 September 2014 - 10:58 AM, said:

I've been one-shot several times in a light though the front Torso. Not sure how exactly either, and only since the Sept 9th patch.

Before that, nah, death can come quickly, but it's not usually a one shot (outside of the rare headshot)

Out of curiosity, which Light 'Mech? And how do you have your armor set up (i.e. Front/Rear distribution)?

[Bront]

DEMAX51, on 24 September 2014 - 11:02 AM, said:

TTK (time-to-kill) is definitely quicker in this game than in tabletop, but there's not much to be done about that. Reason being, shots in TT hit a random location, and players in MWO can aim for specific locations. Players will always aim for the locations that will put an enemy down the fastest.

Still, TTK is WAY higher in this game than in something like COD. One-shots do happen, but they're not very common.



Out of curiosity, which Light 'Mech? And how do you have your armor set up (i.e. Front/Rear distribution)?

Ravens, Firestarters, and Jenners. Usually a torso hit with a CGauss and maybe CERLL, armor still on the rear, and I think I've got at least 25 points on the front.

[DEMAX51]

Bront, on 24 September 2014 - 11:04 AM, said:

Ravens, Firestarters, and Jenners. Usually a torso hit with a CGauss and maybe CERLL, armor still on the rear, and I think I've got at least 25 points on the front.

25 Points isn't enough on the front CT of a light. In general, I use a distribution around 32/12 front/rear. Just gotta make sure you don't give 'em a clear shot on your rear if you have to run away. This is even more important on Lights like the Jenner and Firestarter, as you have to spend quite a lot of time facing your enemy in order for you to do much damage to them.

Also, in the case of being hit by Clan Guass - where there's one, there's usually more. It was probably a dual-gauss, but you can't tell because the "Death-Screen" that shows what you were hit by doesn't show quantity (i.e. it'll only say "Damaged by C-Gauss" even if you were hit by 2 of 'em).

Edited by DEMAX51, 24 September 2014 - 11:09 AM.

[VagGR]

i ve said it before and i will say it again the damage output in MWO is way to high. wether it being pinpoint or overtime. even more obvious now with the clans and honeslty one-shoted or being cored in 3 seconds makes little difference. The main reason is a combination of the heat system weapon convergence and cooldown which is unlikely to change.

As a result we have a game that yes its TTK is way higher than CoD but at the same time is too low for a mechwarrior game.

A buff in armor values and internals would greatly benefit MWO imo (something which i believe Russ said they are already considering)

[Dracol]

DEMAX51, on 24 September 2014 - 11:02 AM, said:

TTK (time-to-kill) is definitely quicker in this game than in tabletop, but there's not much to be done about that. Reason being, shots in TT hit a random location, and players in MWO can aim for specific locations. Players will always aim for the locations that will put an enemy down the fastest.

I always remembered TT time to kill being longer only cause each turn took like an hour.

Plenty of ways to die in TT by the 6th round or sooner (60 seconds)... Head shots, Snake Eyes, Box Cars, unlucky ammo explosion, focus fire.

[Bront]

DEMAX51, on 24 September 2014 - 11:06 AM, said:

25 Points isn't enough on the front CT of a light. In general, I use a distribution around 32/12 front/rear. Just gotta make sure you don't give 'em a clear shot on your rear if you have to run away. This is even more important on Lights like the Jenner and Firestarter, as you have to spend quite a lot of time facing your enemy in order for you to do much damage to them.

Also, in the case of being hit by Clan Guass - where there's one, there's usually more. It was probably a dual-gauss, but you can't tell because the "Death-Screen" that shows what you were hit by doesn't show quantity (i.e. it'll only say "Damaged by C-Gauss" even if you were hit by 2 of 'em).

Side torso, not front. And I'm going by memory.

I'm just saying I've had it happen more often this month than any other (and I've been playing lights since I started). Had it happen to a friend in the same match from the same guy too.

[DEMAX51]

Bront, on 24 September 2014 - 11:47 AM, said:

Side torso, not front. And I'm going by memory.

I'm just saying I've had it happen more often this month than any other (and I've been playing lights since I started). Had it happen to a friend in the same match from the same guy too.

Ah, that makes sense, then. It's much more common to be one-shot through a ST than the CT. Still kinda rare, but it does happen.

[keith]

i will say i miss the old CB head hitboxes. u want CoD like, in CB u could headshot most mechs at 600+ most mechs if u were good.

[Scratx]

TTK may be a bit low, but it's still far higher than in COD or any such shooters.

No, I'm pretty sure MWO isn't going anywhere near COD territory.

[Lefty Lucy]

Dracol, on 24 September 2014 - 11:45 AM, said:

I always remembered TT time to kill being longer only cause each turn took like an hour.

Plenty of ways to die in TT by the 6th round or sooner (60 seconds)... Head shots, Snake Eyes, Box Cars, unlucky ammo explosion, focus fire.

Yep, especially after the Clans come into play, mechs generally live 10-30 seconds after fully engaging the enemy in weapons fire.

[cSand]

TTK is pretty bad if you just stand in front of your opponent and take shots like a pornstar

[Felicitatem Parco]

Dracol, on 24 September 2014 - 11:45 AM, said:

Plenty of ways to die in TT by the 6th round or sooner (60 seconds)... Head shots, Snake Eyes, Box Cars, unlucky ammo explosion, focus fire.

Lefty Lucy, on 24 September 2014 - 12:12 PM, said:

Yep, especially after the Clans come into play, mechs generally live 10-30 seconds after fully engaging the enemy in weapons fire.

Time-to-kill would be so absolutely fast if MW:O used TT-weapons and Armor values... I agree that our current game provides much longer Time to kill than Table Top matches do after adjusting for real-time conversions.

However, we should consider the fact that increasing time-to-kill also increases the likelihood of Brawls. Allowing everyone more time to close in on their opponents will get people in eachother's faces more... The game will then be dominated by those with the best heat-efficiency, because hot builds that are meant for hit-and-run tactics will be swamped by the masses of enemies using weapon loadouts that can be fired continuously. It would give a greater advantage to Autocannons than they already have over lasers.

We could increase armor without increasing ammo, but that would be technically unfair to Mechs that are designed to be ammo-dependent.

I feel the best way to increase Time-to-kill is be introducing a cone-of-fire for when you fire many weapons simultaneously. Not gost heat, just cone-of-fire... a Mechanic that's already in the game (SRMs, MG's).

Edited by Prosperity Park, 24 September 2014 - 12:27 PM.

[Lefty Lucy]

Prosperity Park, on 24 September 2014 - 12:24 PM, said:

I feel the best way to increase Time-to-kill is be introducing a cone-of-fire for when you fire many weapons simultaneously. Not gost heat, just cone-of-fire... a Mechanic that's already in the game (SRMs, MG's).

I don't think anyone has done a good job explaining why increasing TTK would make MWO a better game.

[Willard Phule]

Prosperity Park, on 24 September 2014 - 12:24 PM, said:

Time-to-kill would be so absolutely fast if MW:O used TT-weapons and Armor values... I agree that our current game provides much longer Time to kill than Table Top matches do after adjusting for real-time conversions.

Keep in mind that damage in TT is allocated by random charts, not pinpoint accuracy like we've got here. Makes a HUGE difference.

Prosperity Park, on 24 September 2014 - 12:24 PM, said:

However, we should consider the fact that increasing time-to-kill also increases the likelihood of Brawls. Allowing everyone more time to close in on their opponents will get people in eachother's faces more... The game will then be dominated by those with the best heat-efficiency, because hot builds that are meant for hit-and-run tactics will be swamped by the masses of enemies using weapon loadouts that can be fired continuously. It would give a greater advantage to Autocannons than they already have over lasers.

In the group queue, maybe. In the "no Elo" solo queue, not so much. It's not that we don't have brawlers there, on the contrary, there are a lot of brawler builds on every team. The problem is that everyone is either afraid to engage, thinks they're the worlds best CoD sniper or just wants to hide and spam LRMs. If you're a brawler and you're up front, pay attention to your radar as your team zooms in and backs away from the fight. Every. Single. Time.

Prosperity Park, on 24 September 2014 - 12:24 PM, said:

We could increase armor without increasing ammo, but that would be technically unfair to Mechs that are designed to be ammo-dependent.

We've already got double the armor, double the internal structure, double the ammo per ton....our engines and gyros don't actually hold any real critical slots (as far as taking damage is concerned)...doing anything else to increase TTK is just going to make brawling a thing of the past. Right now, unless you're packing some godawful meta build (like 2 AC20s or 2 Gauss for IS or multiple UAC5s/LBX5s for Clan), you're not doing enough damage up close to make it worthwhile. Yes, I forgot to mention SRMs on purpose. Once upon a time, CERMLs were something to be feared...on TT and here. Here now, you have to pack 3 DHS for every CERML you've got or you're going to shut down fast.

Prosperity Park, on 24 September 2014 - 12:24 PM, said:

I feel the best way to increase Time-to-kill is be introducing a cone-of-fire for when you fire many weapons simultaneously. Not gost heat, just cone-of-fire... a Mechanic that's already in the game (SRMs, MG's).

Yep. Get rid of pinpoint accuracy and everything changes. Clump LRMs into 5 missile groups and assign them a random location like the streaks (the way it's supposed to be). Unfortunately, this has already been addressed. It's a limitation of the Cryengine. They simply can't do it. Like MASC. It is what it is.

Edited by Willard Phule, 24 September 2014 - 12:50 PM.

[Brody319]

"ultimate weapon" Give people an ultimate way of dispatching enemies and they will use only that. Give people pin point damage, a good idea of where the cockpit is, where to shoot, and you will get people who know exactly where to shoot to put you down. Its not CoD, in cod all weapons are about the same, just pick the one with the quickest firing rate and you win.

Also table top games are subject to more randomness. Unless the devs programmed a random damage generator based on range, weather, class of mech and tonnage of that mech, you are going to get people who pack the biggest guns into the strongest mechs.