353 replies to this topic

[HadleyHope]

Russ Bullock, on 24 September 2014 - 08:53 PM, said:

Merc units won't be marginalized but like in lore they align themselves with one of the great houses



New maps but obviously not one for eac planet - but as many as possible under the different asset sets.

Does that mean that there will be a new setting in the UI so that you end up with Merc Unit -> allied with House

Second worry, 6pm - 8pm UTC for european players. I think the time window for Europe needs to be widened to 6pm - 10pm, there is up to +3 hours UTC for some european countries, let alone taking into account daylight saving.

[HadleyHope]

Quote

Is there any opportunity to customize the mech in your drop deck at all before the match starts? I'm assuming the answer is 'No', but wanted to check.
[color=#00FFFF]You were correct, the answer is no. 'Mechs should be customized and prepped in the Mech Lab and added to your Drop Ship when ready.[/color]

Will you be able though to swap ALL modules between the mechs in the drop ship? It would take me half a year to save enough C-Bills to buy 4 radar dep modules!

[Ozric]

Question: Is dropship mode the only mode available for CW? Will there be any way for people who do not want to play respawn mode to not play respawn mode, and still take part in CW?

[Zanathan]

Are there set number of battles that can occur for a single planet to determine the outcome or is it as many battles within the 24 hour window?

Also suggestion for future phases, I feel there just needs to be more incentives for occupying planets rather then plain straight C-Bill bonuses or wins.

[Thomas G Wolf]

Err have not found this yet but what about a Peak European time? There are a couple of Europeans playing this game as well, sorry if I missed any reference to this, just worried that the Europeans are going to miss out again.

[xengk]

Russ Bullock, on 24 September 2014 - 08:53 PM, said:

There is no two hour wait queue - matches will kick off as quickly as possible. In a heavily contested planet we might kick off a match every minute or more.

Paul I said:

How it plays out for the attacking Force players (Clan players):

Spoiler

* Clan players (either solo or in Unit groups) click Balsta and see a planetary information screen appear.
* On this screen, players can see the contract issued by Clan Jade Falcon (as an example).
* Clan Jade Falcon says the reward of winning your attack match is an extra 5,000,000 CB divided amongst your team.
* An 8-man group clicks Accept Contract.
* The 8-man group is put into the Attacker's queue for planet Balsta.
* A 2-man group clicks Accept Contract.
* The 2-man group is put into the Attacker's queue for planet Balsta.
* The team builder for match making adds the 2-man group to the 8-man group for a team of 10.
* A 4-man group clicks Accept Contract
* The 4-man group is put into the Attacker's queue for planet Balsta.
* The 4-man group does not fit into the current 10-man group in the queue so they are placed on hold.
* A 2-man group clicks Accept Contract
* The 2-man group is put into the Attacker's queue for planet Balsta.
* The team builder for match making adds the 2-man group to the 10-man team for a team of 12.
* A successful 12-player attacking team has been built.
* A call to arms message to all players aligned to FRR is sent system wide. ("A unit group is attacking Balsta! Click the Faction tab to defend!")
* A 3-man group clicks Accept Contract.
* The 3-man group is put into the Attacker's queue for planet Balsta.
* The team builder for match making adds the 3-man group to the 4-man group that was on hold for a team of 7.
This cycle of creating teams and triggering attacks/calls to arms continues for 2hrs.

I assume this mean there will be multiple match instance being held simultaneously for a single contested planet?
IE: there could be hundreds of match going on at the same time on Planet Balsta.

If that is the case, how frequent does the token count for a planet is updated? real time, every x second interval or at the end of a combat phase?

Instance also makes counter attack problematic.
If Group A won in Instance 1, but Group B lost in Instance 2.
Which outcome take precedence?
If win have high precedence, virtually every successful counter attack will be ignore by the system.


If attack/defend is not instance based, meaning only 24 players can participate in attack/defend of a planet.
With each match taking 20 to 30 minutes, and assume 2 hours combat phase window; at most 144 players get to enjoy the feature on each combat phase window.

[Elizander]

The immediate upgrades for the planet can be as simple as:

1) Increased gate armor
2) Having points in the map that can hold turrets but are initially bare. Cost to install a turret in specific locations can be up to Unit leader/officers.
3) Since it is only a 24 hour period, you will have to create content that a unit can either directly purchase with c-bills from the specific planet they hold or have them earn points for each successful defense (incentive for upgrading the planet) that they can later use to buy something.

Other games usually use RNG factors as incentives for 'conquering' something such as getting 100% bonus on upgrading your items (meaning that last 2% chance to upgrade to max becomes 4%) but since MWO has no such thing this makes it much harder as everything is permanent and we don't want to place exclusive technology in CW (because everyone else who doesn't have it will gripe).

What immediately comes to mind are camos/decals(if implemented)/cockpit items and perhaps a monthly or weekly leaderboard for units that have the best defensive rating for each planet and the top (x) units get some sort of rewards.

Truth be told, I cannot think up any system right now to properly reward those who spend time and c-bills upgrading a planet without a massive content output from PGI in terms of items as the current features only have so many variables that you can tweak. Without creating too much content, what I can see for unit rewards who rank high would be:

1) XP/GXP/C-bills boost for unit members for (x) days which stacks with Premium.
2) Custom planet colors/skin (but this would just be a one time thing and does not really up replay value)
3) Mech Bays
4) C-bill discounts on mech variants that the planet/faction produces
5) MC (there are games that give cash currency for top ranking participants for competitive events, I think WoT does it but not sure)
6) A huge glowing aura around your mech so people know how awesome you are I don't think people want that.

PGI can make a custom camo/color set for each planet that units who 'own' it or reach a certain score on it can use that camo/color set for 30 days or until next reset or a week, depending on how frequently you want them to fight for it.

What you can add for individuals:

1) Rankings for top defenders/attackers per chassis type (not variants - yet). So Top Defender/attacker ranks for best Awesome Pilot, best Dire Wolf Pilot, best Locust Pilot (yes, I went there), etc with appropriate token reward (doesn't have to be too big, it's more like icing on the cake)
2) Weapon rankings for top defenders/attackers per weapon type (not specifics - yet). So top AC/PPC/Laser/SRM/LRM/LBX/Streak/Gauss/etc.
3) Top Trial Mech pilots(?)

A new set of Achievements should be added to encourage players to try it out. If you want to give away a mech bay or a mech or something big, might as well tie the achievement to CW to increase participation. Some should be low hanging fruit just to get people into it and then stretch it out further along after that.

Samples only:

Participate in 10 planetary attack/defense missions - +1 Mech Bay
Win 10 planetary attack/defense missions - Free 1 specific color
Win 25 planetary attack/defense missions - Free 1 specific color
Win 50 Planetary attack/defense missions - Free 1 specific color
Win 100 Planetary attack/defense missions - Free 1 custom camo pattern

Get 10 UAV spotting assists in CW - Can give GXP or MC or sampler MC versions of the UAV.
Get 100 UAV spotting assists in CW -
Get 1000 UAV spotting assists in CW -

Deal (x) damage with Airstrike or Artillery in CW - Can give GXP or MC or sampler MC versions of priority strikes.

Survive (x) times at the end of each winning mission in CW without changing mechs (not dying once) - Cockpit item or can escalate to a free unreleased mech variant that can only be attained in CW (since hero mechs are the same this should be okay as long as it's just different).

Daily Missions:

Win (1) CW mission each day - Free GXP or Loyalty points + C-bills or something similar.

I'm sure a whole bunch of other things can be done to improve the system once it's implemented.

[Moriquendi86]

I generally like new details a lot and I'm really looking forward to try it. However I have hard time imagining how will this whole system work for large number of players.

- Can you give us some rundowns how will things work when there 1000 players trying to fight over a planet? Will the games happen simultaneously?
- Will I be kicked out of queue if there I don't qualify for a team and match will start?
- Will Elo matter in group building (hint: I hope not)?
- Is it possible for me to queue for planet defense and not get any games?
- How will I see planets I can fight for outside of notification when my faction planet is under attack.

And some small suggestion. Can we get a button that will queue me for any suitable battle? For example: I'm only player in my unit online and I want fast and reliable way to play in faction warfare, I'd press this button and matchmaker would consider me as a player for every attack or defend game I could participate according to CW rules.

[Carrion Hound]

Just really excited for an actual heavily objectives oriented game mode. Respawn with different mechs, and horrifying levels of mech violence that will ensue. ^^

A question. Will this functionality with the dropship/respawn mode for CW also bring in a demand for new maps? Or will there be a pass on all the existing maps to support this?

[Jakob Knight]

Russ Bullock, on 24 September 2014 - 08:53 PM, said:

Merc units won't be marginalized but like in lore they align themselves with one of the great houses

That isn't technically true. Some Merc units aligned with some Houses either by preference or because they became trapped in a 'Company Store' scheme, but the vast majority of Merc units would fight for whichever contracted State currently held their services. Indeed, it was a known occurrence that Merc units that felt they were being treated unfairly or received a better offer would immediately abandon the House or State they were fighting for and change sides, subject only to their own moral code.

It's important to realize that Mercs are not House/State forces. They exist separate from any single Faction, and freely move between them subject only to the decision of the individual Merc or Merc unit they have joined who they decide to fight for. It is this that sets them apart from House warriors.

Right now, the described setup effectively eliminates Mercs from the game, forcing all players to be House forces (if not, please name for me the effective differences in the described setup between the two aside from the color of their badge), with the intended independence now only a possibility for future consideration rather than the fact that was established all through the past CW descriptions over the last two years (and upon which many players based their unit creation on). As it currently stands, there is no difference between Clan, House, and Merc units, when Mercs were always supposed to be the third Faction in CW (the group of warriors not committed to any one Faction but moving between them).

The -only- way I see Mercs surviving under your current system is if House/Clan players are permanently set for their declared House/Clan for the rest of their career (i.e. no ability to switch ever again, even between resets), while Mercs retain the ability to switch between resets. Otherwise, you have effectively and practically done away with a core Faction within the CW game.

Edited by Jakob Knight, 25 September 2014 - 02:44 AM.

[Laserhupe]

Russ Bullock, on 24 September 2014 - 08:53 PM, said:

New maps but obviously not one for eac planet - but as many as possible under the different asset sets.

you should consult the modder community here, take a look i.e. at the skyrim workshop community in steam. they do an awesome job creating mods, textures and complete new elements for it.

why you dont make a contest for new maps reffering to the planets in BT? let the community create maps, that you overview, correct from bugs etc and implement them into your game! you w´d have less work in generating complete new content and got more free resources for other projects or issues.

i remember the best maps in CS(:S) or UT were made by modders, so why shouldn´t you give it a try?

[Dar_Veider]

¿IS Mercenary Units can use clan mechs?

I hope no...


Nice update!!

Edited by Aicarg, 25 September 2014 - 03:57 AM.

[Desintegrator]

Thanks for the update.

[FlipOver]

One thing gets me a bit worried.

I signed up to play a simulation game and a respawn brings the feel of an arcade game with it.
Any plans to make respawns that still feel like we are playing a simulation game instead of an arcade?

[Taifune]

Jakob Knight, on 25 September 2014 - 02:42 AM, said:

[...]

It's important to realize that Mercs are not House/State forces. They exist separate from any single Faction, and freely move between them subject only to the decision of the individual Merc or Merc unit they have joined who they decide to fight for. It is this that sets them apart from House warriors.

Right now, the described setup effectively eliminates Mercs from the game, forcing all players to be House forces (if not, please name for me the effective differences in the described setup between the two aside from the color of their badge), with the intended independence now only a possibility for future consideration rather than the fact that was established all through the past CW descriptions over the last two years (and upon which many players based their unit creation on). As it currently stands, there is no difference between Clan, House, and Merc units, when Mercs were always supposed to be the third Faction in CW (the group of warriors not committed to any one Faction but moving between them).

The -only- way I see Mercs surviving under your current system is if House/Clan players are permanently set for their declared House/Clan for the rest of their career (i.e. no ability to switch ever again, even between resets), while Mercs retain the ability to switch between resets. Otherwise, you have effectively and practically done away with a core Faction within the CW game.

All of that! - The now foreseen implementation just eliminates the basic idea of mercenary units: being a flexible force that can change the tide of events. The idea of mercenary units becoms especially meaningless, as any unit is suppossed to be allowed to change factions between seasons.

Shredhead, on 25 September 2014 - 12:47 AM, said:

Why are merc units forced into a house? Where's the problem making them a seventh "house" that is allowed to attack planets on behalf of whatever house they want (RP have a contract with at that moment)? You could even make them stick with the first contract's house they take for the whole 24 hour duration (restricting them to defend/attack planets only on behalf of that particular house).

That sounds like a not too bad alternative. Alternateively let merc units choose their house every say 5 days or so. Mercenaries won't get any bonuses that house units get, like e.g. cheaper house specific chassis, cheaper drops, as the house covers transport, more loyalty points etc., but mercanaries will get more flexibility and higher C-Bill rewards.

Not making mercanaries effectively become house units, you might even use them as a balancing tool: offer better contracts to mercenaries whenever a faction seems to get beaten up, so more mercenaries join to defend that faction.

HadleyHope, on 25 September 2014 - 12:56 AM, said:

Does that mean that there will be a new setting in the UI so that you end up with Merc Unit -> allied with House

Would be nice, instead of choosing a faction and becoming (in fact) a faction unit.

[Hoax415]

Sounds a little too exploitable at the moment. Wondering how not fighting will be addressed and if it can be in a way that doesn't punish smaller population factions.

-Tactical fight avoidance versus the power of zerg
Without a system where an attacking or defending team waiting for X <time> for a match and not getting one counts as a win for the attackers or defenders you have a system that rewards the faction that can organize a boycott of a particular planet. Lets say FWL gets the tokens needed to flip a planet then stops attacking at all. Now defenders can't get the tokens back and they auto-lose? That won't work...

But with a system where attacking or defending teams waiting for X <time> get an automatic win the larger factions (wolves, davion, steiner) will have some built in advantage just through having a larger population online at a given timeslot.

Now perhaps the plan is to address this through all the faction mixing the current design doc entails, make the populations bigger and then population imbalance should be less acute. In theory.

Big problem is that if the clan factions or IS factions are generally bigger, adding them all together only makes the problems even worse.

Edited by Hoax415, 25 September 2014 - 04:09 AM.

[God of War]

No Mercs? ahhh, come on. That´s really, really poor. Shame on you.

And by the way: Who do you want to prevent Rasalhauge, the FedCom and DC from
being simply sweept away when there is no tool to balance Clan vs IS?
Have there ever been playtests with 12 Clan vs 12 IS? Is there reliable datafor this case?
i fear you have to reset this Operation Revival very soon after launch cause Terra will be clan space
sooner than you can say Batchall, quiaff?

[Jacob Side]

Steiner would never defend a Kurita planet from Davion.

This is the only way it should go. Mercs/Lone wolves should be able to defend/attack any planet, they're taking the highest payers cause up.


House units should only be able to defend their worlds and attack any contested along their borders.

THAT'S IT.

Sidenote: am I reading it correctly that solo players will be able to take part in CW. The thought of puggers having an influencing factor on CW scares the hell out of me.


Edit: Saw some of Russ's replies.

You are correct Sir, Mercs do "align" themselves with Houses by that "aligning" is really only for the duration of whatever contract they've taken on. After that contract is up they could turn around and be attacking the House they just worked for.

Mercs need a contract system where they "align" themselves with a House for a given time. 2 week to a month contract period then they look for a new contract.

Edited by Jacob Side, 25 September 2014 - 04:32 AM.

[OznerpaG]

everything's not 100% clear for me so hopefully i'm making sense


isn't every battle just plain old IS vs clan? if a planet is contested, does it matter if the IS players dropping on a single planet are a mix of davion, kurita and liao, etc? or the clan players are a mix of different clans?


why do mercs/lone wolfs have to be associated with any house? can't they just constitute the 'filler' in every planet conquest to fill up sides? a davion unit/group with 7 players drops on a planet, if there's no other units to fill in the team to 12 can't it just be filled with mercs and lonewolfs? and since a lone wolf does NOT belong to a unit, instead of going to a unit coffer the CB should go straight to that lone wolf's personal CBs, or auto-create a coffer for each lone wolf they'd use to assault planets with on their own and be used as filler in battles


if any house (/clan) can drop on any contested planet, then the players who belong to the house which that particular planet belongs to should get extra bonuses and/or get to drop for free since their house pays for their RR, but get less CB since you are fighting for your own house, not cash. so if you have a choice of many contested planets to drop on and you are liao, if there are no liao planets contested you can still drop on a kurita planet but you will get less bonuses and/or have to pay RR - but maybe get more CB for the win. mercs and lone wolfs would always get less bonuses and/or have to pay RR, maybe they always get pure CB for the drop win or lose? mercs and lone wolfs should lose less of their CB 'prize' if they are on the losing side since they get paid for their services no matter what, but they should gain less of a CB 'winning bonus' if they are on the winning side also


why such small drop windows? why can't the planet be available to battle for 24hrs (or 12 hour segments or 6 hour segments) so every player in the world gets a chance to attack/defend that planet during a real day? maybe every 2 hours a new contested planet becomes available and lasts for 12 hours so at any given moment there are 6 planets being contested, or maybe every 3 hours a new contested planet becomes available so at any given moment there are 4 planets being contested


thanks!

Edited by JagdFlanker, 25 September 2014 - 04:44 AM.

[sabujo]

God of War, on 25 September 2014 - 04:23 AM, said:

No Mercs? ahhh, come on. That´s really, really poor. Shame on you.

Don't know what you mean by that, but that's not off the radar - it was simply moved to the next phase. And for what I can predict, this CW module will be an ever changing system where new features are added each season. I like the idea of coming up slowly building things in a solid fashion rather than throwing everything out like crazy.

God of War, on 25 September 2014 - 04:23 AM, said:

And by the way: Who do you want to prevent Rasalhauge, the FedCom and DC from
being simply sweept away when there is no tool to balance Clan vs IS?

In my opinion that is a non existing question. Rasalhague will be a complicated faction for anyone that enlists it - call it hard mode, if you want. But that's lore - it's unavoidable. I think that the best counter measure regarding clan rapid advancement into one faction territory is that anyone (IS) can defend and work together. Also, planets will be limited, that means that we won't see a radical change in the map overnight.

So far I am really liking the plan and how it is being carefully rolled out. Can't wait for the next update.