353 replies to this topic

[Cimarb]

I mean no offense, of course, but was just stating my side of it. I do not agree with it, but it would not stop me from playing the game if it was allowed.

I am not a Founder, as I missed out on that phase unfortunately, but I have bought every top package since then, as well as many hero mechs by themselves and many months of premium time. I am heavily invested in IS mechs as well, but was under no false pretenses that I would be able to use them as a Clan Warrior, or Clan mechs as a Spheroid, because that would totally ruin the entire feel of the invasion.

I had no problem with the nerf to Clan tech, though, as that was needed for the game to continue to prosper, but have advocated for quite a while that there should be some sort of salvage system used to allow each faction to "earn" the right to use cross-faction mechs. I am not just talking Clan/IS, though, as I think CW should restrict (initially) to only those mechs produced on a planet they control. Once planets are changed hands, or you have salvaged enough parts to make your own, then it should be unlocked to use in CW. All of that has been shelved until at least Phase 3, though, when we start talking about logistics.

Immersion should never be thrown out just because you have a fat wallet, though, just like balance should never be. If we throw out immersion, are you then ok with MC-bought "gold ammo" that does triple the normal damage? I sure hope not.

[TigerOne]

Quote

Will there be some kind of 'newsfeed' streaming results of battles and other newsworthy events?
Yes, this is something that is needed for the Call to Arms feature which alerts Faction players that one of their planets is being attacked and so on. Inclusion of notable battles would be a cool feature to add to this. The feature itself will grow over time but the basics will be in place for Phase 2.

OK, so I'm late with feedback, but it would be really nice to have a web service exposed where we could consume those events, so we could build an app for that.

[Antonius Prime]

Cimarb, on 08 October 2014 - 07:17 PM, said:

I mean no offense, of course, but was just stating my side of it. I do not agree with it, but it would not stop me from playing the game if it was allowed.

I took you to mean no offense, Cimarb. NP, there.

Cimarb, on 08 October 2014 - 07:17 PM, said:

I am not a Founder, as I missed out on that phase unfortunately, but I have bought every top package since then, as well as many hero mechs by themselves and many months of premium time. I am heavily invested in IS mechs as well, but was under no false pretenses that I would be able to use them as a Clan Warrior, or Clan mechs as a Spheroid, because that would totally ruin the entire feel of the invasion.

I did not share your view that such would be false pretenses. There has been very little information given about what CW would look like until recently. I pretty much figured that there would be no long term absence for me to not be able to make much use mechs I spent real money on.

Cimarb, on 08 October 2014 - 07:17 PM, said:

Immersion should never be thrown out just because you have a fat wallet, though, just like balance should never be. If we throw out immersion, are you then ok with MC-bought "gold ammo" that does triple the normal damage? I sure hope not.

Ok, I have been cool up till here, but you are taking this in a completely illogical direction at this point. I did not say anything like that. Never did I present an idea that the game should be pay to win. Never did I say that you should get some kind of unfair advantage for your cash investment. I do not have a fat wallet. I choose where I spend my money carefully. I have chosen to invest the relatively small bits of cash I use for myself into this game. I could have put it elsewhere. I did not. I chose to put it here. I have chose with each package to continue to support PGI. All I am asking is for the ability to make use of what I bought. What reason do I have to upgrade my Wave II purchase as I plan to do. If my Unit chooses IS and I don't want to leave my Unit, then what reason do I have to purchase any Wave II at all?

I do want to support PGI's efforts. I do want to support this game and this community. I just don't want to make a straight out donation to do so. I want value for my money. Why spend it here on things I can't really use when there are plenty of other gaming things I could spend on and get full use of my investment? Do you see where I am going here? At least give me an idea when or how I will get to use my investments so that I might continue to invest. I am talking business and personal choices. That is why I said "throw immersion to the wolves" in comparison. You must keep the context and not change my meaning. I do care about immersion. I just care about getting use out of money I have spent far more. Again, that is why I am looking for a creative solution that could possible preserve both.

Also, I am going to rephrase this into a question on the new thread, since it appears this one is no longer in use. I will not continue this on this thread and keep alive to everyone's annoyance.

[Cimarb]

You want to break immersion and play anything you want anywhere you want because you paid for it. The next step would be paying for an advantage with what you want to play anywhere you want to play it - ie gold ammo.

Community Warfare is the role playing aspect of this game. If you want to participate, roleplay by choosing a faction and sticking to it.

As I said before, go to the guys at MCW or any of the other lore-based tournaments and try to argue the same thing with them. If you want a match where you can play whatever whenever, there is always the public queue, but factions should matter in CW.

[Hoax415]

Its almost always a waste of time to debate anything with someone who uses "I paid for this so I'm owed it" to prove his "point".

CW is a silly exercise if it wantonly ignores the lore. Without a doubt because it will be good for their bottom line PGI will implement eventually some form of salvage system.

But you will never be able to fight for both Clan and IS in CW. That's stupid and its not Battletech.

If you really really want that you can start petitioning PGI for the ability to split your account into two accounts. That's the best I can come up with but you'll regret that decision when the salvage system is added it seems to me.

[Cimarb]

Hoax415, on 09 October 2014 - 08:57 AM, said:

Its almost always a waste of time to debate anything with someone who uses "I paid for this so I'm owed it" to prove his "point".

CW is a silly exercise if it wantonly ignores the lore. Without a doubt because it will be good for their bottom line PGI will implement eventually some form of salvage system.

But you will never be able to fight for both Clan and IS in CW. That's stupid and its not Battletech.

If you really really want that you can start petitioning PGI for the ability to split your account into two accounts. That's the best I can come up with but you'll regret that decision when the salvage system is added it seems to me.

I hope they will implement a salvage system quite a bit, but I do not think it is stupid to want to fight for both sides. Technically, a mercenary wants to fight for EVERY side, dependent on who is paying the most and can ensure their unit's survival.

Eventually, I hope that we will get to a point, through salvage or just dev boredom, where we will be able to fight anyone and have a truly comprehensive, "living" community warfare system that rewards you for who you play for, who you kill, who and what you capture, etc. I want to feel like my character is actually making a difference, not just dropping in an arcade pod...

[Hoax415]

Salvage will happen maybe eventually. I'm sure they want to add it as it sells more mechs.

Fighting for IS and Clan factions during the invasion timeline Will Never Happen.

In theory way way wayyyy down the timeline the lines between Clan and IS factions blur somewhat so anything is possible regarding a mixed tech faction. But worrying about that or discussing that is foolish at this point.

The IS Merc faction will never fight for Clan factions. Period. Full stop.

That does not diminish the CW system, as you seemed to imply.

Rather just letting every single player be Mr. Hero in Wolf's Dragoons on a special secret mission so they fight for both Clan and IS factions because they are THE MOST ELITE MERC IN THE UNIVERSE would diminish CW greatly. Because this isn't a SP game so you don't get to be the godmode MC that the entire universe revolves around. Get over it.

Suggestions and complaints about how every player should get to be the main hero of the story the way he imagines it in his head, lore be damned, make me feel like I'm discussing this subject with 10 year olds.

Edited by Hoax415, 09 October 2014 - 04:37 PM.

[Cimarb]

I am not talking about during the Clan Invasion, but I would like to see a salvage system be implemented before the Battle of Tukayyid time (so roughly 2-3 years, max). At that point, you started seeing a lot of tech-swap happening. Not saying I want mix-tech, either. Just that was the time period where the lines started to blur.

Regardless, I agree with you for the most part, Hoax, but you really do not have to be so hostile about it. You have made several comments so far that are demeaning and belittling to the people you are talking to.

Oh, and mercenaries are not quite as reviled as you think. They are considered dezgra initially, but a mercenary was captured at the beginning of the invasion and made it quite high in the Clan heirarchy over the next few years. It is the lifestyle they dislike, not the individuals, but even that is more akin to the dislike the FRR has for mercenaries, who I have not heard a single person mention in these "Clan hate mercs" rants.

On top of that, some of the Clans are not nearly as extreme about that, and going down the timeline the attitude changed quite a bit, to the point that the Snow Ravens (I think) essentially became mercenaries themselves.

[Hoax415]

They never hired IS mercs to fight their battles for them. You wan to RP a captured merc? Go for it. But your still Clan X faction, you aren't an IS merc anymore. Can we maintain sight of what we are talking about here? IS Merc Faction != merc pilots captured by a clan, or IS bondsmen or any of the other highly select special exemptions to the way things were in the fiction.

I'm hostile because I'm tired of wasting time reading and debating the merits of Little Johnny wanting this video game with thousands of players to be like a PnP RPG where he is the main protagonist.

Clan robots = Clan Factions

IS robots = IS Factions

Later on there will be a salvage system not because its great for the gameplay or balance but because PGI wants to sell mechs and players who buy every mech want access to them.

The clan invasion timeline will never have a faction option that fights for both sides interchangeably its silly that we are going back and forth as if that is up for debate or interpretation.

I mean there are real serious questions about CW Phase 2 systems that ought to be in CW at launch. But instead these threads are always full of this kind of prattle about "why can't I be a wolf dragoon? I want to fight for everyone! I want to form my own super special secret forces faction! When can I be Word of Blake! Make Comstar a Faction! I want to be a pirate!". Enough already. Talk about that stuff in General Discussion these threads should be more focused on practical and useful feedback.

Edited by Hoax415, 09 October 2014 - 05:31 PM.

[Cimarb]

Well, actually, if you had read my posts thoroughly, you would see that I agree with you on (almost) every point you made. The only place I disagree with you is your tone and a slight discrepancy in how you think Clans feel about mercenaries compared to how I think they do.

While you may not think it is a "real serious question", others think it is. To be honest, it is likely MORE serious than what you are worried about, because the question we are currently debating deals with them not being able to play with their friends - that is about as serious of an issue as you can get in a video game, actually...and it does directly relate to this thread topic, since it is about a foundational part of Community Warfare: the community you play with.

That being said, I do agree with your points, just not your tone. Try to be a tad less of a jerk

Edited by Cimarb, 09 October 2014 - 05:43 PM.

[Rufus Ingram]

There is plenty of lore to support IS pilots using Clan mechs for their faction. It is a concern for the significant cash cost (or time investment in terms of c-bills) of Clan mechs that IS pilots won't be able to use them in CW. For that matter, emersion (sp?) is already broken because you can buy them for C-Bills, and Clan pilots will get a c-bill reward for attacking/defending planets, so splitting in an effort to protect it seems superfluous.

I can understand having them seperated for CW phase 2 for testing and to get a real demonstration to see if one or the other dominates as a technology base, but the split will be a major issue if it lasts very long. The split already favors those paying cash to participate on the Clan side over Clan loyalists purchasing with C-Bills. Getting enough C-Bills for 4 clan mechs of any significant size is a big number of matches. And modules on top of that is a lot of time investment. Just 4 novas with full modules for each is at least 80 million c-bills. That's over 500 matches at 150k c-bills a match (a generous allowance for average players). Definitely sets up a bias on the Clan side at least that could alienate some low revenue players.

EDIT: going back through previous CW phase 2 info, I understand, disagree, but accept why it is not the way I envisioned.

(For the record, I don't own any Clan mechs and was going to use a mix after I get my c-bills together, but now I guess I won't)

Edited by Rufus Ingram, 10 October 2014 - 02:29 PM.