127 replies to this topic

[IllCaesar]

Every now and then I encounter variant in Mechwarrior Online that can mount ECM not utilizing the mount, and pretty much every time I see them, they're ironically torn apart by LRMs or abandoned by teammates because, well, would you stick around the guy who has the sense, or lack thereof, to pilot a Atlas D-DC without ECM? I also see a lot of Kitfox pilots not using the arm omnipod that contains the ECM, and while there are different potential weapon mounts for each arm, I'm skeptical as to whether they're more valuable than ECM. Its also very light, 1.5 tons Inner Sphere, 1 ton Clan.

I just personally can't see how not mounting ECM can really be justifiable outside of an extremely organized team-drop. Anybody have any counter-points?

[Lucian Nostra]

I don't think there's a single IS ECM mech that shouldn't be running it, it's to valuable.

We've seen one build of the Kit Fox (2 ER LL, 2 SRM6) that in team play doesn't run it.. but other than that fit and situation I can't think of a reason not to run ECM on a Kit Fox. Hellbringer should always have it.. Really only the Mist Lynx just because that arm is fairly gimp.. but even with that I still bet the ECM Mist Lynxs will do better than non ECM.

Edited by Lucian Nostra, 25 September 2014 - 09:00 AM.

[Mcgral18]

Magic Jesus Box is a very powerful piece of equipment.


Mist Lynx might give you a reason not to, since with every other mech in the game you can mount adequate weapons otherwise. Cute Fox has an E hardpoint, Loki will have 3E. The Meth Lynx won't, and will have a choice of 2E, or 1E2M in the other arm.

In nearly all cases, it's better to have it than not.

Edited by Mcgral18, 25 September 2014 - 09:00 AM.

[5LeafClover]

I ran a DDC without ECM for a couple of matches because I didn't have cbills left after buying it. Stock loadout doesn't come with one. This may also be why the non ECM mechs you've seen suck. Otherwise, no I don't see a good reason to leave behind ECM, but I wouldn't begrudge someone loading their own mech any way they like.

[Túatha Dé Danann]

For PUG-matches, you often play against people who ignore a target that has not a big red triangle over its head. You also see a lot of LRMs in PUG matches - so yeah, ECM gives you a benefit you do not want to miss. In an organized 12 vs. 12, you could just relay the target coordinates and the firestorm will begin, regardless of ECM or not.


I've used an LRM-40 Kitfox without ECM to level it and then I sold it after mastering it. I felt dirty using it, but I also had a smile on my face every time I killed an LRM boat with my LRMs. It was so satisfying to give them their own medicine... but well, thats another topic. The only Kitfox left in my hangar got ECM. In general, it is a big mistake to not mount ECM on an ECM capable mech and either shows that someone did not understood the game or is so new, that he does not even knows what ECM is. The is no other explanation beside being mentally disabled. Other than that, its totally fine to use a chassis that cannot mount ECM. In most cases, there are plenty of counters for LRMs and Streaks as well as good positioning can reap multiple times the reward than blind-walking through the map with ECM.

[Joseph Mallan]

MarsAtlas, on 25 September 2014 - 08:55 AM, said:

Every now and then I encounter variant in Mechwarrior Online that can mount ECM not utilizing the mount, and pretty much every time I see them, they're ironically torn apart by LRMs or abandoned by teammates because, well, would you stick around the guy who has the sense, or lack thereof, to pilot a Atlas D-DC without ECM? I also see a lot of Kitfox pilots not using the arm omnipod that contains the ECM, and while there are different potential weapon mounts for each arm, I'm skeptical as to whether they're more valuable than ECM. Its also very light, 1.5 tons Inner Sphere, 1 ton Clan.

I just personally can't see how not mounting ECM can really be justifiable outside of an extremely organized team-drop. Anybody have any counter-points?

justified... So I don't want to use it, isn't justification?

[Bilbo]

Joseph Mallan, on 25 September 2014 - 09:18 AM, said:

justified... So I don't want to use it, isn't justification?

If you want ECM cover but don't want to take a mech capable of it, it clearly isn't.

[Livewyr]

Short Answer: NO.

[Kassatsu]

Livewyr, on 25 September 2014 - 09:26 AM, said:

Short Answer: NO.

This.

The worst thing you can do to a team (outside of intentionally griefing by ghosting, tking etc.)? Not mount an ECM on a mech capable of mounting it. That goes double for the Kit Fox, I've seen many terrible builds (let's not even mention that stock LRM loadout) that use a different right arm for a single extra medium laser or something.

There *might* be some use for a different KFX loadout that doesn't use an ECM in low-level competitive play, but I doubt many of the "top" competitive teams use a Kit Fox at all. No excuse in pug matches or solo drops.

Edited by Kassatsu, 25 September 2014 - 09:30 AM.

[MeiSooHaityu]

I can't see a good reason not to carry ECM. Like others have said, it is extremely valuable.

[ChapeL]

I don't run all my Kit Fox configs with ECM because I'm not using all my Kit Fox configs the same way. The one config that carries it sticks with the main group and provides ECM and AMS cover along with a NARC option. I range out alot more with the others and at that point while ECM would be usefull to ME, if I were to equip it, I might as well stick to the group and make it usefull to everyone. ( and in return use the current config at 30% of its capacity)

Edited by ChapeL, 25 September 2014 - 09:43 AM.

[Mott]

Ran a kit fox last night without ECM (forgot) AND without CSRM ammo (doh!) AND without radar deprivation (I rushed the build, okay!) and it did not end well at all.

So, imo it's justifiable if you simply forget or have a massive brain cramp while building.

But intentionally running without ECM? No.

[Alexandrix]

No.If you can mount ECM,you do.It just brings to much to the table to not take it if you can.

Edited by Alexandrix, 25 September 2014 - 09:38 AM.

[Kassatsu]

Mott, on 25 September 2014 - 09:34 AM, said:

Ran a kit fox last night without ECM (forgot) AND without CSRM ammo (doh!) AND without radar deprivation (I rushed the build, okay!) and it did not end well at all.

So, imo it's justifiable if you simply forget or have a massive brain cramp while building.

But intentionally running without ECM? No.

I loaded my Adder with SRM6s and SSRM ammo once. Was kinda fun... Not really.

[Edustaja]

Kassatsu, on 25 September 2014 - 09:29 AM, said:

There *might* be some use for a different KFX loadout that doesn't use an ECM in low-level competitive play, but I doubt many of the "top" competitive teams use a Kit Fox at all. No excuse in pug matches or solo drops.

Well there was a competitive unit that won MRBC EU this season that was practicing with the 4SRM6 kitfox. It was however mostly to replace Jenner Oxides I gather. The deck was fitted with 3DDC's for ECM anyways.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Is it possible too that the mech IS running ECM, but...

A- The mech's ECM is on "counter" and not "disrupt", so you just aren't seeing the affects

B- The ECM was destroyed so it isn't functioning.

[Helsbane]

A wise man once said, "Those that can, should." Now, he wasn't talking about ECM, but I believe it applies.

[Sethliopod]

The 24SRM Kit Fox would have to give up 12 rockets to utilize ECM. And take on the burden of a strong sense of obligation to stay in the middle of the group. Plus one would expect to be targeted more often by savvy opponents.

But, yeah the ECM is simply far too good to pass up for any other 1 to 1.5 ton piece of gear. Hard to name another piece of gear so absurdly good.

Honestly though, unless we're playing with people we consistently talk to on voice chat, we are probably not playing at a level we should at all feel like we have to justify our Mech choices...unless we're considering some sort of troll build.

edit: Pfft! Who am I kidding? Even if it only affected my Mech, I would still always take it, if available!

Edited by Sethliopod, 25 September 2014 - 10:33 AM.

[DasaDevil]

inb4 my clan throws me under the bus about not having ECM on my raven when i was drunk and dropping >:V

[WrathOfDeadguy]

I'm not sure I quite get it... how is taking an ECM-capable 'Mech without ECM any different than taking any other 'Mech that simply can't mount ECM? Some of the ECM 'Mechs have great hardpoints and can support loadouts that just aren't possible if they give up the tonnage for ECM... the COM-2D comes to mind. It can rip out triple SRMs and punch well above its weight, but it can't really fit the largest possible launchers, Artemis, or sufficient ammo if it runs ECM. Most of the build suggestions for ECM on that chassis that I've seen so far have been SSRM2s, which... just do not a good mobile striker make.

If there were a limit on ECM-capable 'Mechs per match, then yeah, you'd be hurting your team pretty badly by dropping in one without the hardware... but there's no such restriction, so there's no functional difference between you in your ECM-less ECM 'Mech and every other schmo in the game who didn't bring one. Is there? Am I missing something here?