349 replies to this topic

[Tesunie]

Gyrok, on 02 October 2014 - 09:43 PM, said:

4.) TW only carries 27 tons of weapons with full armor. KGC will likely carry ~40ish

On this account, you also have to consider the lighter weight of clan weapons. So 27 tons of pod space is probably more or less equal to 30-40ish tons of innersphere mech (pod) space. Just pointing out. Otherwise, nailed it.


The Gargoyle (to be on topic at least, or trying), is going to probably play in a similar manner to the Dragon. It will be faster than most other assaults and well armored (as an assault), but will be under gunned. Just like the Dragon, a Gargoyle will have to consider it's approach and angles of attack carefully to fully exploit it's faster speed. That is it's strength. Weapon wise, the Direwolf beats it hands down in shear raw firepower capabilities, but it's slow which is often time's it's own weakness. (Pros and cons. Gives and takes.)

[FearNotDeath]

Toe to toe with a Dire? Never. I think a lot of people hoping this mech will have enough speed to not be hit by a big clan mech are in for a rude awakening once you try it against a decent pilot. 89kph isn't THAT fast when you'll have an assault mechs profile.

[CyclonerM]

FearNotDeath, on 02 October 2014 - 11:26 PM, said:

Toe to toe with a Dire? Never. I think a lot of people hoping this mech will have enough speed to not be hit by a big clan mech are in for a rude awakening once you try it against a decent pilot. 89kph isn't THAT fast when you'll have an assault mechs profile.

We shall see. You see so many Dire Wolves players complaining, saying that their 'Mech truly deserves the nickname "Whale" for its agility.. It may not really turn fast enough. I will try to do that with a (mastered) Timber Wolf to really see it, but i think its speed will be useful.

[Pariah Devalis]

Cuts both ways. KC and DW are both big and slow. Neither will be particularly hard to hit, and I can guarantee you will see two gauss, 1 erppc KCs rolling around.

[The Gruntmaster 6000]

Quote

Cuts both ways. KC and DW are both big and slow. Neither will be particularly hard to hit, and I can guarantee you will see two gauss, 1 erppc KCs rolling around.

And I'll be rocking a dual ERPPC, 3 Medium Pulse Laser, 2 LRM20 Timber Wolf.

[Kain Demos]

The Advisor, on 03 October 2014 - 06:45 AM, said:

And I'll be rocking a dual ERPPC, 3 Medium Pulse Laser, 2 LRM20 Timber Wolf.

I've run a dual ERPPC 2 x LRM20 Timberwolf and I have no idea how you'd fit three MPL in there and still have ammo for the launchers.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...9cecd904daebeb9

Edited by Kain Thul, 03 October 2014 - 07:26 AM.

[WonderSparks]

The Advisor, on 02 October 2014 - 03:11 PM, said:

Yeah... no. I guess you haven't heard of the Dual AC20 Jagermech. You know that tank that goes around bashing your armor to a pulp in seconds (I killed a Timber Wolf, Direwolf, and a Catapult in one match and still had ammo left over in my Boom Jager). Yeah nothing new. All King Crab is going to be, is good target fodder aka only moves at 32 KPH. It will be dead before it can claim its title. My Boom Jager moves at 60 KPH.

Your AC/40 does not scare me! It took EIGHT of those shots to kill my Mad Dog the other day!
_{There is a video floating around that proves it!}

[The Gruntmaster 6000]

Quote

I've run a dual ERPPC 2 x LRM20 Timberwolf and I have no idea how you'd fit three MPL in there and still have ammo for the launchers.

They musta upped the weight or something cause I ran that build on every TT, and MW video game in existence.

Edit- I'll just replace them with small pulse lasers group everything differently and still have 3 tons for ammo.

Double Edit- Also I am not trolling. I am being realistic. Timber Wolf is the most well rounded Mech in BattleTech has proven to be such. I have watched pilots with 6.0 K/Ds get massacred when they thought their Atlas was more than match.Timber Wolf is the King and has always been that. Its weaponry out matches all mechs I've ever seen.

Edited by The Advisor, 03 October 2014 - 08:33 AM.

[Tesunie]

CyclonerM, on 03 October 2014 - 04:34 AM, said:

We shall see. You see so many Dire Wolves players complaining, saying that their 'Mech truly deserves the nickname "Whale" for its agility.. It may not really turn fast enough. I will try to do that with a (mastered) Timber Wolf to really see it, but i think its speed will be useful.

I once ran around an Atlas with my Std 100 engine Locust. Goes about the same speed. Agility though does not equal speed, but we will have to see. If the Gargoyle is fast enough and agile enough, it may be able to get close, stay close and run circles around the Direwolf/Atlas and kill it without taking much if any return fire. (If it can be done in a Locust, why can't it be done in a bigger mech?) This could be a playable advantage, to the right pilot.

[Kain Demos]

Tesunie, on 03 October 2014 - 09:19 AM, said:

I once ran around an Atlas with my Std 100 engine Locust. Goes about the same speed. Agility though does not equal speed, but we will have to see. If the Gargoyle is fast enough and agile enough, it may be able to get close, stay close and run circles around the Direwolf/Atlas and kill it without taking much if any return fire. (If it can be done in a Locust, why can't it be done in a bigger mech?) This could be a playable advantage, to the right pilot.

Considering that Pre-nerf Victors could do it I don't see how the Gargoyle won't be able to. The 400XL will grant it even more agility.

[Tesunie]

Kain Thul, on 03 October 2014 - 09:24 AM, said:

Considering that Pre-nerf Victors could do it I don't see how the Gargoyle won't be able to. The 400XL will grant it even more agility.

XL400 engine grants it speed. Not necessarily agility. How fast it accelerates and decelerates, as well as turn, will determine it's agility on the battlefield. I know my Battlemaster 1G(P) with an XL400 engine was fast, but couldn't stop worth anything, and turned like a slug...

[Kain Demos]

Tesunie, on 03 October 2014 - 09:35 AM, said:

XL400 engine grants it speed. Not necessarily agility. How fast it accelerates and decelerates, as well as turn, will determine it's agility on the battlefield. I know my Battlemaster 1G(P) with an XL400 engine was fast, but couldn't stop worth anything, and turned like a slug...

I though agility in this game is determined by a formula that takes the engine size into account? This is why some Clan 'mechs keep getting targeted by bitching, whining, and moaning for nerfs (Stormcrow and Timberwolf) because their huge engines for their weight class grant them so much speed and agility.

Edited by Kain Thul, 03 October 2014 - 09:38 AM.

[Tesunie]

Kain Thul, on 03 October 2014 - 09:37 AM, said:

I though agility in this game is determined by a formula that takes the engine size into account? This is why some Clan 'mechs keep getting targeted by bitching, whining, and moaning for nerfs (Stormcrow and Timberwolf) because their huge engines for their weight class grant them so much speed and agility.

Engine size determines mech speed and twist speed. The mech's movement class, and any quirks, determine it's overall agility. A Battlemaster moving at 80+KPH is not as nimble and agile as a Hunchback moving the same speed, or a Locust. The Battlemaster (and the Gargoyle I would presume) have an assault movement class. This means slower to start and slower to stop. The Victor, also an assault movement class mech, is also farther reduced in it's abilities by quirks that reduce it's movement profile. I also know that the Cicada 3M has some acceleration/deceleration penalties quirks, especially when compared to other Cicadas. The Cicada also may move as fast as a light mech, but it isn't as agile (but real close to) as a mech with a light movement rating.

[Kain Demos]

To me agility is twist speed and turning speed along with accel/deccel.

If engine size only affects twist speed but not turning speed/accel/braking then it will still have some of an impact on agility. The Gargoyle looks like it will be the undisputed speed and agility king of the assault battlemechs.

Pod space and hardpoint selection will be what determines how badass it is or isn't going to be at brawling.

Edited by Kain Thul, 03 October 2014 - 10:22 AM.

[Voivode]

Dire Wolves are pretty vulnerable to faster mech, I just don't know if an assault at 89.1 KPH with the Gargoyle pods is going to be the right combination of speed and firepower to make a DW pilot sweat.

Then again, I've been having a great time with my Yen-lo-wang running around at 91KPH, hammering DW pilots with a good ole IS AC/20 and moving on before they can turn to hit me. So maybe it could be, and then it becomes ironic that Gargoyle has "Goliath" written down the barrel of its gun when it's playing the role of David.

[CyclonerM]

You see why i am so excited about it?

And remember, if it is found to be underperforming, PGI may give it one or two quirks. I would not mind an armor strenght bonus to the arms..

Edited by CyclonerM, 03 October 2014 - 12:10 PM.

[Golden Vulf]

I'd appreciate a quirk to give it an endosteel upgrade! only 21.5 tons of pod space (less after maxing armor)

Getting those 4 extra tons of podspace would do wonders for customising weapon loadouts and having enough ammo to last a game.

The Hellbringer can get away with not having the 3.25 tons of extra endosteel space because it already has 26+ tons of pod space. Compared to the Jaegermech, also a 65 tonner, has a faster engine and more room to mount lighter Clan weapons.

The Gargoyle falls in between the Timberwolf and Warhawk in tonnage and maneuverability (assuming it will have the drawbacks of being an assault mech),

it has 6 fewer tons of pod space than the Timberwolf, which actually already has more armor in the default loadout, and 11 fewer tons than the Warhawk which already has maxed armor and includes 20 heat sinks!

Edited by Golden Vulf, 05 October 2014 - 06:12 AM.

[Lily from animove]

without 1/1/1/1 you just get a lower armed but better armored Timberwolf. With 1/1/1/1 you seriously take the Firepower of a Direwolf to get more speed. Not sure if that hlps much for the whole team. But I gonna try it, I like fatser mechs, DW is not my thing. Sometimes you have amazing fun, sometimes your team wipes the floor and you haven't even seen any opponents Especially on therma and alpine this totally sucks when you start at the wrong location..

[Golden Vulf]

The weird thing is in other games it came with Endosteel. When Fasa was still making Battletech, when the Gargoyle first appeared it had Endosteel - Dual Lbx 5s, Dual Streak 6s, more armor and a larger laser in the torso. The weaker/cheaper current version of the Gargoyle started to see more production and the original one vanished. I guess after everyone got a hold of some of Clan Wolf's Timberwolf, they only wanted to make cheaper versions of the Gargoyle for 2nd line and Solahma units.

[Pariah Devalis]

That I did not know, and it would have been an interesting mech with that kinda space to carry ballistics.