78 replies to this topic

[Hades Trooper]

So i thought to ask the question.

If you see a Direwhale doing 53.5kms and you run into the path of it's fire while it's shooting in moderately fast moving mech. What should happen?

Should the dakka dakka direwolf stop firing to let u get in the way so u can do hit and run tactics so the dakka dakka direwolf takes the return fire to the face?

Or should idk, you use your speed to come around from the other side of the building and flank it?

To me it's seems a simple answer, don't walk into the path of the autocannons and get your own line of fire than expect someone else to stop firing so you can.

So if you get team killed as you have repeatly jumped in the way, should you get upset or should you accept you made a mistake and learn from it?

With the slow projectile speed of autocannons it happens a bit that you fire and someone moves into there path while there heading towards the enemy.

Once the projectiles are in flight what can you do?

Who's at fault?

Discuss.

[UnsafePilot]

Both are at fault when the streams cross. Firing guy is at fault for not adjusting his aim/stopping after it's happened. No fault worth arguing about so long as the killing side isn't being a jerk in the chat about it.

A quick 'sry' in the chat has solved the issue each time it's happened to/by me.

[Oderint dum Metuant]

Why didnt you just put this in your already existing thread.

[Hades Trooper]

DV McKenna, on 25 September 2014 - 04:55 AM, said:

Why didnt you just put this in your already existing thread.

the wording wasn't considered acceptable due to the tone and one of the words in the title.

Thus this is the political correct wording on the matter at hand.

I'd like to have an open discussion on the matter

[Cheb44]

The bunched up PUG tactics of this game lead to a lot of this. A good example is everyone trying to go into the same entrance to Mordor.

And before you say "don't PUG", a good game needs game mechanics to encourage good tactics and whether you like it or not PUGs are important to the health of the game. No one likes to mention tanks, but their PUGs spread out and when they don't they pay. (I know not the same thing exactly, with the massive firepower mechs bring but....)

Not sure what the best answer is, I just know something needs to be added to discourage the current "deathball" tactic we have now. That being said I love this game and the lore and all the stompy robot goodness yee yee.

[Ghogiel]

If all you want to do is justify shooting bads on your team in the back, it's them that's at fault.

Personally, the bad DWFs shooting friendlies in the back is the #1 cause of FF these days and they need to l2p. It was epidemic the first week clan wave 1 was released and here we are months later and bads are trying to justify it and place blame elsewhere.

Edited by Ghogiel, 25 September 2014 - 05:11 AM.

[Piney II]

Players running in front of firing mechs happens all of the time. When that happens, you need to stop shooting or, with long burning lasers, bore a hole in the ground.

If they get hit, it's on them for running into your line of fire....................but it's on YOU if you continue firing.

Annoying as hell? You bet!

But it happens very frequently so you just have to deal with it.

[Turist0AT]

Depends on the situation. I dont think you can say clearly whose fault it is. Just both be considerate and everything will be fine.

Its like in trafik. No one wins in a car accident.

Edited by Turist0AT, 25 September 2014 - 05:22 AM.

[SI The Joker]

Because shooting your teammate in the back, no matter what the reason... is fantastic thing to do.

*sigh*

[Mawai]

If someone crosses into your line of fire ... don't shoot them in the back. If they accidentally get shot by crossing your line of fire it isn't your fault.

I often play a light mech ... they run around at 150kph and I try to avoid the line of fire from friendlies ... but I am focusing on taking out the target ... this means that sometimes I don't see the dual gauss Jager 600m away that is firing at the same target ... and I get killed by it. Totally my fault under the circumstances but luckily it is pretty rare.

On the other hand, if I end up in front of someone blocking their line of fire it can be frustrating but if they shoot me intentionally they are being a twit ... no matter what mech they are driving.

[Hades Trooper]

I would concur with this thoughts but here's my main point is projectile speeds.

At 500 metres, i can fire ac/10's and have a clean line of fire but that moderately fast moving mech can jump in front at half way to the target and get hit.

Perhaps i didn't make that clear, as the example i'm thinking of that happened tonight was firing at another direwolf at 600 metress metres, at about 400 metres away a mech that was behind cover picked that time to jump out and caught the alpha in the back and since i had double tapped the 2nd alpha had just left the barrels so from there pov i had continued to fire when in fact with my 250 ping, i had fired both alphas when i had a clean fire path.

Yet they then ranted in team chat how i was a team killer

[CygnusX7]

It happens.. Sorry from both sides of the fence.

[Oderint dum Metuant]

Hades Trooper, on 25 September 2014 - 05:21 AM, said:

I would concur with this thoughts but here's my main point is projectile speeds.

At 500 metres, i can fire ac/10's and have a clean line of fire but that moderately fast moving mech can jump in front at half way to the target and get hit.

Perhaps i didn't make that clear, as the example i'm thinking of that happened tonight was firing at another direwolf at 600 metress metres, at about 400 metres away a mech that was behind cover picked that time to jump out and caught the alpha in the back and since i had double tapped the 2nd alpha had just left the barrels so from there pov i had continued to fire when in fact with my 250 ping, i had fired both alphas when i had a clean fire path.

Yet they then ranted in team chat how i was a team killer

I don't think you quite described your position like that in the first thread.

In this scenario, that is not your fault.

In your other thread, refusing to stop firing and shooting through to the other direwolf is your fault.

[Dolph Hoskins]

On a more serious note. Sometimes with a little luck or coordination team mates bounding in front of you can work out well if you have come close to reaching your heat threshold. With most weapons it's fairly easy to not plug your team mates in the back as long as you're not zoomed in.

Sometimes in frozen city with thermal vision on I find it difficult to not shoot or be shot by friendlies in some of the congested areas when it turns into a brawl, but those are usually worst case scenarios. The two tone nature of thermal vision really does a number on depth perception.

[Hades Trooper]

DV McKenna, on 25 September 2014 - 05:23 AM, said:

I don't think you quite described your position like that in the first thread.

In this scenario, that is not your fault.

In your other thread, refusing to stop firing and shooting through to the other direwolf is your fault.

yeah thats me bad, i'm NOT exactly the best at expressing myself with the written word, i sometimes need 3 or even 4 attempts to write something to give an accurate description on how events played out or don't think that how i've written something would appear to others.

I'm not exactly a big forums person and not the best at this stuff, i do much better at blowing mechs up

Edit : left out the word Not, see how bad i can be writing this, i think faster than i can write and leave out words that can make a difference

Edited by Hades Trooper, 25 September 2014 - 05:30 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Of mixed minds.

Because I have noticed a massive uptick of derps with either no situational awareness, or the "killsteal" mentality. Always pushing in front of my established firing lane, or blocking into me (or generally crowding my space like a lost puppy so I can't bloody maneuver).

First time or two, I try to stop or move my fire. Type a quick "heads up" in chat if possible. If afterwards, they show the inclination to continuously do so, or they talk crap back in the chat? Well, I don't "keep shooting" but I also don't worry if my shots do hit them.

At that point, it's their attitude and playstyle getting them shot, and their play is actually detrimental to the team, so if they catch a volley on the back, that's totally on them at that point, IMO.

Last Night, I had a killwhoring Centurion hanging back constantly in my way every time i tried to back up. But the moment I had an enemy to internals, he'd shove in front of me to try to snag the kill. And half the time, get locked by enemy LRMS, and when he would retreat, I'd get to catch the retaliatory fire.

By the 3rd enemy mech? I just kept shooting. And didn't move out of his way. And he ended up catching my fire and about 120 LRMs from the Opfor.

Somehow I don't feel bad for him.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 25 September 2014 - 05:30 AM.

[Hades Trooper]

Bishop Steiner, on 25 September 2014 - 05:28 AM, said:

Of mixed minds.

Because I have noticed a massive uptick of derps with either no situational awareness, or the "killsteal" mentality. Always pushing in front of my established firing lane,

that's what i think was happening, a killsteal mentality, it was the 2nd time they caught a volley in the back and the game was 9-3 and we'd starting rolling them hard.

so in there attempt to jump out and get the kill they instead died

SI The Joker, on 25 September 2014 - 05:19 AM, said:

Because shooting your teammate in the back, no matter what the reason... is fantastic thing to do.

*sigh*

So how do i stop the volleys at are in mid flight when firing from 600 metres and at 400 metres from you they step out and caught the volley in the back?

[VagGR]

both. simple as that.

they BOTH have to pay attention around them. Also keep in mind thet not all people that run infront of a dwolf are deprs. have you considered that the may not had a choice? in that case the derp is the dwolf who didnt stop firing because "OMG I'M DIREWOLF WITH 32AC5S DAKAKADAKAKA MUST SHOOOOT THE RED THINGY CLICK CLICK CLICK"...

so situational awereness goes both ways and both are to blame

[Mercules]

Car accidents are much the same way. The car in front doesn't always have a clear view of the car behind and so can not always determine where that car will be moving. Thus in general the car behind the other car is the one considered, "At Fault" as they have a clearer view of what is happening.

Obviously this isn't always the case, there are exceptions, but they start from the idea that the car behind the other was more likely to see what was happening and have a chance to react, just like the mech who is firing and having his field of fire crossed.

[UnsafePilot]

Mercules, on 25 September 2014 - 05:36 AM, said:

Car accidents are much the same way. The car in front doesn't always have a clear view of the car behind and so can not always determine where that car will be moving. Thus in general the car behind the other car is the one considered, "At Fault" as they have a clearer view of what is happening.

Obviously this isn't always the case, there are exceptions, but they start from the idea that the car behind the other was more likely to see what was happening and have a chance to react, just like the mech who is firing and having his field of fire crossed.

A mech stepping in front of another's firing lane is more akin to being cut off on the road. What's in question here seems more like asking who's at fault when you run the other guy off the road for cutting you off a second ago.

Edited by UnsafePilot, 25 September 2014 - 05:41 AM.