117 replies to this topic

[Lmxar]

As it stands right now, LRMs are way too powerful and common. Most games I play consist of at least four LRM 30+ mechs per side. To effectively pull off a LRMageddon, minimal teamwork is required, and on many open maps it is almost unstoppable. The thing is; LRMageddon is not fun. I have played in LRM mechs, and I have played against LRM mechs. Hiding 30 feet behind a ridge line and spamming missiles at some poor assault walking to meet his team 60 seconds into the match is not fun. Sitting behind a building and shooting red triangles all match is not fun either. It takes no skill whatsoever to keep your cursor in the generic area of the mech you are shooting at while not even being in LoS.

When one team has five LRM boats, the game is usually a foregone conclusion unless the LRM heavy team is terrible, or the other team is very highly coordinated AND stacks a ton of ECM. The skill required to defeat this 'strategy' versus the difficulty to defend against it is far too one sided. When both teams are super-LRM heavy, I end up staring at various buildings half of the match trying to avoid LRMs. It kills the enjoyability of MWO. MWO to me is supposed to be a mech sim that is about coming up with your own unique build for your mech and seeing how your skills compare to others'. Generic builds like the pre-launch splatcats, the old PPC/AC5 poptarts, 2 gauss/2PPC dire whales, and now the LRMageddon just ruin the game for me. I am not saying that LRMs should be nerfed into almost complete uselessness like other weapons have been, but having 200 LRM tubes on one team in a match is too much. Toning down the missile arc so it is not so high would help things a great deal. Making LRMs spread more like in tabletop, where only a fraction of them would hit would also reduce the effectiveness, and would probably be better since it is a lore friendly solution. Just do something.

When the game launched, I thought really hard about whether I wanted to be a founder or not. I did not, and I think I made the correct decision based on the game's development so far. Since then, I have spent a fair amount of money on the game only to walk away out of frustration with the poor balancing and lack of development twice. I am really encouraged by the new steps PGI is taking in being more open about announcements, and am cautiously optimistic. That said the excessive use of LRMs is really killing the game for me.

[ColonelMetus]

yeah LRM is out of control because they nerfed all the other weapons so people fell back on LRM

[Xiomburg]

This is the whine that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people started whining, not knowing what ECM was, and they'll continue whining forever just because...This is the whine that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people started whining, not knowing what ECM was, and they'll continue whining forever just because...This is the whine that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people started whining, not knowing what ECM was, and they'll continue whining forever just because...

[Firemage]

ECM the magic box + ams + radar dep + knowing how to dodge the slowest weapon in the game.

Noting personally i love taking LRM shots at 250ish so people can't avoid them.

[Jonathan Paine]

Funny, my lance has been ROFLE stomping Lurmers all day. Of course, it takes a bit of coordination and guts to pull it off. The usual "I'll just hang back and hope that the rain stops" isn't going to cut it.

[Kain Demos]

I always get a laugh out of the people that want the developers to win the match for them.

[MauttyKoray]

I find this topic funny. In lore a large number of mechs have some sort of LRM launcher for long range support (not all of course). Most people in this game love to ***** about LRM fire, however using cover, ECM, and AMS seems to be out of the question and they are obvious counters to such. Of course you'll be LRM'd out of cover, and that is true for both sides. LRMs are fine as they are now because the closer you get the more worthless they become, its part of the counter to them and unless you want to make this a game of 'every weapon does the same thing, there's no choice anymore' then there will always be those who ***** about one weapon or type of weapon being OP because they die by it without trying to learn how to play against it because it counters them.

[Felicitatem Parco]

Lmxar, on 26 September 2014 - 09:35 PM, said:

MWO to me is supposed to be a mech sim that is about coming up with your own unique build for your mech and seeing how your skills compare to others'. Generic builds like the pre-launch splatcats, the old PPC/AC5 poptarts, 2 gauss/2PPC dire whales, and now the LRMageddon just ruin the game for me.

Okay, so SRMs, PPCs and Autocannon, Gauss rifles,and LRMs are frowned upon?

What the heck are we supposed to use, then?

[Griggio]

Prosperity Park, on 26 September 2014 - 10:57 PM, said:

Okay, so SRMs, PPCs and Autocannon, Gauss rifles,and LRMs are frowned upon?

What the heck are we supposed to use, then?

Harsh language and dirty looks of course! If your missing some over in the group que we have plenty we can loan you over here in the solo que

[Kain Demos]

Griggio, on 26 September 2014 - 10:59 PM, said:

Harsh language and dirty looks of course! If your missing some over in the group que we have plenty we can loan you over here in the solo que

You beat me to it, my response was gonna be the old Aliens "harsh language".

[Lmxar]

It really isn't difficult to defeat 1-2 ECM on the other team. Narcs, TAG, UAV, BAP... I think I did a decent job in putting out my points without needless *****ing and whining. The troll post that repeats itself just makes the poster look like a jack***.

AMS really doesn't do much unless multiple team mates stack it or you have a triple AMS kitfox running around with you. I don't even know how many AMS it would take to shoot down a noticeable fraction of the missiles coming from four or five LRM platforms. The fact that even in premades, there are very few players that run AMS suggests that it is not an effective LRM counter.

That I am basically forced into using a mech module to keep LRMs at bay when I am completely out of sight also shows how powerful they are.

Ultimately, setting up a LRM based team requires a lot less coordination and skill than setting up a non-LRM based team. Essentially you just need 3 good light pilots to mark targets while your LRM carriers sit back and pick their noses. You don't have to lead targets, hold one area of the mech like you do with lasers, or even really aim at all. All 9 nonlight mechs essentially have to stick together to fend off lights, which results in a sheep herd style tactic. There is no flanking, pincers, envelopment, or creativity.

The simple fact is that there is a reason why so many people run LRMs. It is because they are extremely easy to use, and they are very good at what they do. The only mech I own that has LRMs on it that I know of is my 2LRM15/2SRM6/6ML stalker-3F, and I hate running it. I feel 1000X more accomplished when I get a 1000+ damage match in my banshee or even my Timber wolves, and the TBR is the strongest mech in the game right now. Why? Because it requires me to at least have the skill to aim at my target, even if I can mount a ton of weapons and run at 89kph. Heat management isn't nearly as much of a problem either. Overheat by 1-2% in a brawl and you are in trouble. Overheat by 1-2% while in the backfield LRMing and you are typically pretty safe. My point is that they either need to be harder to use, or toned down in effectiveness. Many other weapons have been modified to be less effective. For god sakes, the PPC, a long range weapon in canon, isn't even a viable weapon any more at over 500m on a non-assault weight target that is paying attention-and it generates tons of heat.

[YueFei]

LRMs don't need to be toned down in their effectiveness.

Below a certain skill threshold, LRMs are more effective than direct fire. People aren't as accurate, they are more hesitant, they don't put pressure downrange.

Above a certain skill threshold, direct-fire wins trades with LRMs. Players move decisively, get shots early and often, put tons of pressure downrange, and lay *effective* fire. This means that you're not just hitting the target, but hitting the target in vital areas. LRMs spread damage all over the place. Effective direct fire kills things dead *frighteningly* fast when people coordinate their fire and they are crack shots.

Now, don't get me wrong, it's not like I'm good. I'm pretty average at this game. But when I lose trades with LRMs and go down, I don't whine about it. It's a problem with my own skill, nothing to do with the balance of the game.

The only time I'd consider something overpowered is when the top players, after tinkering and wracking their brains for months, can't come up with a counter to something besides using the same technique themselves and just trying to execute it better. LRMs are not like that.

[Johnny Reb]

Prosperity Park, on 26 September 2014 - 10:57 PM, said:

Okay, so SRMs, PPCs and Autocannon, Gauss rifles,and LRMs are frowned upon?

What the heck are we supposed to use, then?

YOU small lasers. Him anything but lrms obviously.

edit; maybe med lasers ok ask OP.

Edited by Johnny Reb, 26 September 2014 - 11:20 PM.

[Lmxar]

Prosperity Park, on 26 September 2014 - 10:57 PM, said:

Okay, so SRMs, PPCs and Autocannon, Gauss rifles,and LRMs are frowned upon?

What the heck are we supposed to use, then?

At the time, there were no long range maps. SRM36 Cats reigned supreme. I am sure there are multiple old videos on youtube if you wanted to see, but seeing how you are a founder, I am sure you probably remember.

PPCs and ACs were probably the least problematic of the builds I stated. The fact that they were a dime a dozen cheapened the game for me. Again, if everybody runs the exact same mech, whats the point.

2Gauss/2PPC dire whales (pre-PPC nerf) were able to nearly render a heavy CT stripped in one shot. They were probably the reason for the ineffectual PPC nerf which served to make PPCs not really worth the tonnage while leaving the gauss rifle alone.

You are pretty conveniently ignoring what I was trying to say. Pretty sure I stated "pre launch" splatcats, and the dire whale (as in pre-nerf PPC).

I am not going to bother though. Forgot how trollish forumites were for this game.

And for the record Johnny, med lasers are fine.

[Kain Demos]

Lmxar, on 26 September 2014 - 11:23 PM, said:

I am not going to bother though. Forgot how trollish forumites were for this game.

And for the record Johnny, med lasers are fine.

Says the guy that comes on here wanting the developers to force everyone else to play his way.

[Pat Kell]

LRM's are only as powerful as you allow them to be. No trying to be mean,it's just the simple truth. it doesn't take much skill to beat lrm's, just a little bit of patience.

[Wolfways]

You're right. Sitting behind a hill firing tons of missiles at targets up to 1000m away takes no skill. On the other hand avoiding missiles does take some skill, which is why unless the enemy are incredibly bad the LRM boat will do very little damage.

LRM's are pretty much worthless (against decent players) at anything over around 600m.
They are easy to mostly avoid when you learn how to move around the maps without exposing yourself until you want to. Breaking LOS sometimes works, hugging terrain nearly always works.
ECM turns them into scrap metal.
AMS reduces the amount of damage you take.
LRM boats are easy to kill.

While I'd accept a slight indirect-fire nerf (not that i think they need it) LRM's in general need a buff or two.

[Lily from animove]

It's fine, yes ther eis now more lrm spam because people want those event scores for taging narcing and lrms make easier assits on everything. But in nearly non of these matches did I died by LRM's. Its a matter of preparation.

[KharnZor]

[The Amazing Atomic Spaniel]

I'm rubbish at this game. But even someone as plodding as me rarely dies to LRMs. They are just too easy to counter or dodge. There's only one map where they are anything other than a minor nuisance.