81 replies to this topic

[Mystere]

El Bandito, on 27 September 2014 - 10:55 PM, said:

That is simply answering for the sake of balance instead of technicality. In MWO, larger engine one has, more agility one gets. Doggie has 300XL, while Timbie has 375 XL. Since it requires +25 engine rating to retain the same mobility as a 5 ton lighter mech, Timbie gets exactly the same agility as the Doggie. That's all there is to it.

However, Timbie should get mobility nerf quirks, like the Victor. Perhaps then I won't feel dirty buying it.

On the one had, you say that Timbie should be as agile as Doggie. Then on the other you say Timbie should be given less mobility. But doing the latter reduces the former. My head is spinning.

[Mystere]

Iron Frost, on 27 September 2014 - 01:57 PM, said:

I wonder how it would change the game if they lowered the impact of engine rating on agility overall and increased the effect of absolute mech weight. The thing is, there is a certain critical point where any 'extra' agility does not yield a real advantage in combat. For example, the twist speed of a spider vs. a reasonably agile medium does not improve the usefulness of the mech.

And I say let the player decide the actual usefulness of said extra agility. For some 1% means nothing. For others, that's enough to make an actual difference.

Edited by Mystere, 28 September 2014 - 10:32 AM.

[FupDup]

El Bandito, on 27 September 2014 - 10:55 PM, said:

However, Timbie should get mobility nerf quirks, like the Victor. Perhaps then I won't feel dirty buying it.

Because the Victor nerfs worked so well, right?


Why does everybody go on about the agility/mobility of the Mad Cat? At best, its agility is equal to the Suckoner and Mad Doge. It's actually a little bit less because of the S side torsos and a slightly lower twist radius. Given that people don't complain about the agility of the other Clan heavies (which are at least equal to the Mad Cat in that specific regard), this would indicate that the Mad Cat's problem is something other than its agility.

[That Dawg]

Mystere, on 28 September 2014 - 10:27 AM, said:

Timbie

Doggie.

Seriously? Has Hello Kitty finally made it to Mechwarrior?

[Mystere]

That Dawg, on 28 September 2014 - 10:33 AM, said:

Seriously? Has Hello Kitty finally made it to Mechwarrior?

Where have you been, forced exile?

[Mystere]

FupDup, on 28 September 2014 - 10:32 AM, said:

Because the Victor nerfs worked so well, right?

Why does everybody go on about the agility/mobility of the Mad Cat? At best, its agility is equal to the Suckoner and Mad Doge. It's actually a little bit less because of the S side torsos and a slightly lower twist radius. Given that people don't complain about the agility of the other Clan heavies (which are at least equal to the Mad Cat in that specific regard), this would indicate that the Mad Cat's problem is something other than its agility.

I am really wondering if it's related to a crusade that been ongoing for decades.

[Koniving]

Ph30nix, on 27 September 2014 - 04:19 AM, said:

im not even talking when running a bunch of weapons it can barely even handle 2 LL and 2 ML have i just been running assaults to much lately or is there something seriously wrong with this mech?

Extra heat on medium and small class lasers.
Much like the IS has extra heat on them.

The large lasers have reduced heat. In closer range combat you'd be using a lot more medium lasers than large lasers. So if you cut off the large lasers and just use the mediums like you're supposed to, you won't be that bad off. Though in comparison, medium lasers are supposed to be even colder so you wouldn't have a chance of being 'hot' from them. Meanwhile those large lasers are supposed to be hotter so you'd never dare to use them up close while firing a number of other medium to small class lasers at the same time.

Sadly the IS nerfs on small/medium lasers (because they were magically too dangerous in bulk as they should be in exchange for their lack of range) got thrown on the Clans. Meanwhile the IS buffs on large class lasers in the form of heat reductions and extra damage per shot was thrown on the Clans, so the large lasers are basically all the rage.

You want efficiency? Go one way or the other. Don't expect it with a mixed set because you're too inclined to fire them all at once. (With a proper threshold you'd probably shut down just firing 2 ER LL and 2 ER ML. 1 ER LL = 12 heat. 1 ER ML = 5 heat. 12 + 12 + 5 + 5 = 34. Beam length of 1+ second means you'd avoid shut down so long as you weren't walking). Currently you've got a faster than 2.0 per DHS rating (so long as you keep it 17 DHS or lower; after elites mind you not before). Your thresholds can easily reach 100 instead of the proper 30 (60 for MW4, 40 for MW2 and MW3: Pirate's Moon. 30 for MW3, 30 for BT.)

[Túatha Dé Danann]

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...253d79fa02064e7

33%, full weapon loadout, maximized DHS-loadout. On mastery, that thing is quite usable. Done.

Edited by Túatha Dé Danann, 28 September 2014 - 10:53 AM.

[MechWarrior849305]

Alphaing 6xSRM6 can't be even close to cold Can't control your heat? Play something else

[Seeker Kirov]

FupDup, on 28 September 2014 - 10:32 AM, said:

this would indicate that the Mad Cat's problem is something other than its agility.

Not really. Are you familiar with the term force multiplier?

[MechWarrior5152251]

Its in the end video of MW2 Mercenaries! Runs along with cool theme music, toasts a commando, then takes a dirt nap after running into an Atlas lance.

[Ultimax]

Bishop Steiner, on 27 September 2014 - 01:18 PM, said:

Why should the Mad Dog be more agile? Lets see, because at 15 tons lighter, with commensurate lower armor and when DHS and armor are accounted for, less weapons, it needs to have something to actually make it worth taking instead of everyone simply taking Timber Wolfs?

The Timber Wolf weighs 15 tons more than the Mad Dog, the Timber Wolf spends 11 out of those 15 extra tons directly on raw Engine upgrades gains the corresponding benefits of that bigger engine.

This would also be the case if you plugged a 350 into an Orion and a 300 into a Jager.


It's just not something we see often IS side, because most Heavy mechs run smaller engines devoting more tonnage to firepower.


That being said, the Hexa-SRM Maddog will have better torso twist speed than the Quad-SRM Timber Wolf, due to the Timber Wolf's negative quirks for the S torsos.


Alternatively, the Mad Dog would be more agile if it could increase it's engine size.



The irony is that for all of the complaints we see about the Timber Wolf's speed and agility, if players could change the engine size I imagine many Timber Wolf players would drop down to 300-350 range to add more weapons.

[JackPoint]

Fliping the Op on its head, why is the timberwolf so darn heavy, similar weight to a catapult but try fitting 2 lbx 10s and 4 medium lasers on it. Can be done with ease on the cat, but no way in hell can it fit on a tbr, the primary weight on the tbr chassis is 10t overweight for no justified reason, or does xl375 weigh so much.

TBR with XL 375 engine weight??? 75t total.
Cat with XL 300 engine weight 15.5t 65t total.

So how much does a C-XL375 weigh?. I tried to find info on this but failed.

Edited by Jackpoint, 28 September 2014 - 11:44 AM.

[Mystere]

Ultimatum X, on 28 September 2014 - 11:21 AM, said:

The irony is that for all of the complaints we see about the Timber Wolf's speed and agility, if players could change the engine size I imagine many Timber Wolf players would drop down to 300-350 range to add more weapons.

Players constantly ***** and moan about the agility of the TW and want it directly nerfed because these very same players are absolutely terrified of giving other players the ability of downgrading TW engines.

I am telling you, it is this.

[CDLord HHGD]

I run mine with 5x CMLs and 2xCLRM10 and 4xCLRM5. Sexy......

Plus now that I got the basics done and working on elites, she's doin better on heat managment.

[Mystere]

August Immanuel, on 28 September 2014 - 11:18 AM, said:

Not really. Are you familiar with the term force multiplier?

A force multiplier can be 10 or just as well be 1.00000000000000000000001. So I think you're going to have to elaborate more on your point.

[Ultimax]

Mystere, on 28 September 2014 - 11:59 AM, said:

Players constantly ***** and moan about the agility of the TW and want it directly nerfed because these very same players are absolutely terrified of giving other players the ability of downgrading TW engines.

I am telling you, it is this.

To be honest, I think you're right.

As bizarre as it seems, a lot of players seem to have pretty clear "grudges" that seem to have carried over from other games.


Sometimes the logic gets pretty mind bending as well, arguing that Victors with bigger Engines should be more agile than an Atlas with the same sized engine but then suddenly doing a 180 when that conversation becomes about the Timber Wolf.

Edited by Ultimatum X, 28 September 2014 - 04:53 PM.

[101011]

Jackpoint, on 28 September 2014 - 11:43 AM, said:

Fliping the Op on its head, why is the timberwolf so darn heavy, similar weight to a catapult but try fitting 2 lbx 10s and 4 medium lasers on it. Can be done with ease on the cat, but no way in hell can it fit on a tbr, the primary weight on the tbr chassis is 10t overweight for no justified reason, or does xl375 weigh so much.

TBR with XL 375 engine weight??? 75t total.
Cat with XL 300 engine weight 15.5t 65t total.

So how much does a C-XL375 weigh?. I tried to find info on this but failed.

The CXL weighs the same as the Spheroid XL.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Ph30nix, on 27 September 2014 - 04:19 AM, said:

im not even talking when running a bunch of weapons it can barely even handle 2 LL and 2 ML have i just been running assaults to much lately or is there something seriously wrong with this mech?

Because PGI is obsessed with heat and for some reason thinks that the only way to balance Clan mechs and weapons is to heat lock them into uselessness.

Seriously the heat that Clan Lasers produce is in my Top Three list of things that make this game un-fun and frustrating. I mean all my Clan mechs now actually run hotter than my IS mechs for the same firepower. I mean it is pretty screwed up that it takes 22 Clan DHS to roughly sink the same amount of firepower as 17 DHS on a IS mech. Range be damned, that is a helluva penalty to pay for 100 extra meters of range.

Edited by Viktor Drake, 28 September 2014 - 04:41 PM.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Ultimatum X, on 28 September 2014 - 11:21 AM, said:

The irony is that for all of the complaints we see about the Timber Wolf's speed and agility, if players could change the engine size I imagine many Timber Wolf players would drop down to 300-350 range to add more weapons.

100% this. I would gladly drop my Timby's speed down to around 75 kph if I could add more weaponry. Also its speed is grossly overrated. People seem to not realize that an extra 15 kph is only 6 mph or about the speed of man running. I am sorry but that isn't enough to really make a difference in your typical match. An extra 4-5 tons though, that would make a huge difference.