22 replies to this topic

[Kodyn]

I've been experimenting with T-Bolt builds, it was one of my first mechs, and I quickly abandoned it due to my lack of ability to maneuver it and keep it alive. Now that I've learned a bit more about the handling and care of mechs, most importantly how to move without getting hit every 2 seconds, I've gone back to it.

Now my question is this, is an XL in a T-Bolt too risky? it has huge ST, yet a very narrow, easy to protect CT, so naturally I thought that would be the best route. The problem being, I can survive losing a ST, but if I lose the wrong one, I'm left a stick anyway, so there's really no point in having survived in 50% of the cases. Am I better off just running the XL, cramming more weapons/ammo on, torso-twisting like a madman, or sticking with my zombie-turtle variant that can potentially outlive it, yet has much less punch?

For reference, this is what I'm running, and what I'm thinking of modifying it to if I do go XL.

Current- http://mwo.smurfy-ne...fe4b609c608d649

Potential 1- http://mwo.smurfy-ne...894af257b7efd1e

Potential 2- http://mwo.smurfy-ne...a095e60df126a90

Thanks in advance for any advice and tips here, and btw, I really like the weapons combinations I'm using, which is why they're on each build, so I'm not really looking for suggestions on that, just XL or STD engine choice, based on veteran experience with the chassis.

[Redshift2k5]

I have one Tbolt and I run it with an XL- without the XL it was so slow it was far too easy to pick apart, and it doesn't have zombie potential so losing a side much of the time left me with too few weapons.

[Kodyn]

Yeah, you pretty much stated exactly what I've been running into with it. If it turns out to be that literally no one besides myself runs STDs in them, and they do alright, I'm really thinking the XL will be the way to go. I already own one XL300, sitting in my SHD, but will spring for another if it just plain makes more sense.(I tend to run one if the other is in match and I'm dead, so sharing is a no-go for me)

[Tahribator]

The TDR loses its sides so fast that as soon as you're in an encounter, you'll be taken out very quickly. There's no way of protecting those side torsos other than staring your target to death or just not getting into engagements at all(sniping). Your builds are pretty brawly, so I'd strongly advise against XLs.

I think TDRs are pretty much sentenced to STD engines because of this. All my TDRs have STD engines and this leaves them undergunned and slow. Seriously, they handle like a brick if you're going with its stock engine(STD260). Their only redeeming feature seems to be tanking really well with a STD, but who brings out a mech to only tank?

Edited by Tahribator, 28 September 2014 - 01:13 AM.

[Redshift2k5]

I used mine to hill-hump with a pair of cockpit-level PPCs. But it never impressed me enough to actually go and buy one since could do the same damage in a Blackjack and be much faster.

[Barkem Squirrel]

This is a hard question with the TB, to XL or not.

With a standard engine you are limited to using lasers as the main armorment, with MGs and either SRMs or at most a LRM 10 in the shoulder. Then having a larger engine is very important.

The XL's do give you speed, but at a cost. You will die sooner.

Here is where rolling the torso here is so important while taking damage. with a standard you can be a great meatsheild and tank damage. If you are running the ones with two missile hard points then go XL if you are using LRMs.

It comes down how you are going to play. brawl, use standard, snipe with the high mounted energy hard points use an XL and LRMs use an XL.

[Kodyn]

I was really loving getting back into this mech at first, had some good matches, but shortly after posting this thread, I must have jynxed myself, because it all started going downhill lol. Still been rolling with the STD 300, been determined to grind out the cbills for the 5S or another for eliting/mastering, since my K2 spoiled me on speed-tweaked heavies...the more I play this mech, the more I'm having issues with it all over again.

I tend to lose a ST nearly every match, and at least half the time, it's the gun side, and this is with a lot of torso twisting, arm-shielding, etc. I get focused a lot even in large packs, I think due to the large, boxy shape making for an easy target, and many pilots like shutting down a PPCer right away if possible.. Not sure after reading more comments and more time in the mech that I could run it well with an XL, but for brawling, even the STD is giving me headaches.

Thanks for the opinions folks..gonna give the T-Bolt the morning, and see if I can redeem it, but if not, I may have to just swap over to a comparable build in a CTF, which I know can handle the XL a bit better, will lose some speed, but get to keep JJ, good shoulder energy points, and gain ballistics. For my pop-tarty, snap-shotting, half brawl, half direct fire support style, that may end up being a better option.... I just so wanted to redeem this mech. :/ Sometimes I just need to accept the reason I never see certain mechs, and when I do, never alive at the end of a match, that it's because others have tried and failed to make them work efficiently.

[Escef]

The T-bolt is an odd mech. It's just so uncommonly used that there isn't much of a consensus on what does and does not work on it. If you are good at torso rolling to spread damage than an XL might be feasible.

My most successful builds on T-bolts are my 5S with a 275 STD, 3xML, 1xLL, 2xAC5 and my 9S with a 260 STD, 6xML, 1xAC5, and 1xALRM10.

[Kodyn]

The problem I've noticed even with torso twisting is that the STs stick up so high that no matter what, anyone with halfway decent aim can still just shoot high and knock out the ST. Heck, if someone just wanted to walk some fire straight up and down either side, they'd have an arm off and my internals open in no time. Also, I have never seen FF like I have seen it in the T-Bolt...yes, I know I'm bulky, yet i tend to try and be aware of where I am in relation to allies, but I think they just can't shoot over or around me nearly as well as most other mechs, so I usually end up losing an arm or two to my own team, plus have open back nearly all match every match...Never experienced that with my K2, lol, in fact, I managed to pop an ERPPC shot straight through the ears of an allied K2 last night without hitting him, and did hit the target, so I know my size is making a difference.

Going to keep paying attention to suggestions here, but I'm thinking it highly likely I'll just stick to less unwieldy heavies in the future. I already run a K2, and am interested in CTFs, just never spent enough time on them, so I may just end up focusing on those rather than trying to squeeze water from this rock.

[Bront]

Standard 275 or 300 in a T-Bolt. Period.

The T-Bolt is a bit of an odd duck. It spreads damage well, but tends to lose the side torsos pretty quickly. It's an amazing brawler mech, but is extremely vulnerable at long range. Fortunately, it's squat, so it can hug cover better. I also suggest avoiding using the missile tubes, though I had a fun brawler 9SE that used 2 SRMs to great effect before they were even fixed.

I;ve had great success with builds like this 5S (3 ML, 1 ERLL, 1 AC10) that brawls well but can poke at range a bit, a DPS 9S brawler (6 ML, 1 UAC5), or a fast 9S Brawler with crit-seakers (1LL, 5 ML, 2 MG). All fight up close, have very good heat dissipation, range in speeds from not bad (over 70) to fast (85), roll damage well, and can lose a side without losing a lot of firepower.

Given they can lose a side torso quick, the 5S and 9S are generally better than the 5SS and the 9SE. the 5S and 9S have their hardpoints spread out pretty well, while the 9SE has most of it's firepower in a single ST (that's extremely vulnerable if you mount any missiles), and the 5SS is just an OK energy boat (My best 5SS build, couldn't get anything else to work)

I need to take my 5S out more. I'm often surprised how successful it is when I do.

[Kodyn]

Good points there Bront, unfortunately for my relationship with the T-Bolt I've become addicted to JJ's, and the increased agility that comes with them. I equate it to having AWD in a heavy mech. I love my K2, but I don't run it as much as my SHD-2K simply because I can get to more places, evade more fire, take pop-shots, and just all around move better with a JJ mech.

The main thing I'm looking for in another heavy at this point is a good brawler that can also sport JJs for tactical and maneuvering purposes. I had already owned a 9S, basic'd, so all I had to do with the T-Bolts was pick up a 5S or something to finish off basics after the 9SE, and I'd be good to go with elite on that. I would probably use a 5S with LB and LPLs, but not nearly as much as the JJing 9SE, simply due to my own playstyle.

As much as I wanted to have an oddball mech like the TDR work well for me, the more posts I see and the more matches I run in it, the more I feel like I just need to save up and get a CTF-3D, since it's probably everything I'm wanting out of the TDR, in a slightly better package hitbox-wise. I also can't argue with the ability to fit a heavy ballistic, such as the LBX 10, in a ST that's considerably smaller and harder to hit than the 'Bolt's. Only downside to the CTF over the TDR I can see is a very slight drop in speed and on-paper cooling, though in reality with the way I group and fire my weapons, I can likely compensate for the less heatsinks with no problem. Oh yeah..and the cost...between it being a nearly 10mil CBill mech, and the XL 315 I would likely pick up for it, it's going to cost more than twice as much as a fully outfitted TDR...but them's the breaks I guess.

[AlterSchwede]

i have a lot of fun and success with a TDR-5s (phoenix) built with:
- Gauss (3x ammo)
- 3x Medium Laser
- 1x aSRM6 (1,5x ammo)
- STD-295

the gauss in the left arm surprises a lot, most players concentrate on the right side
if you can aim well, you can almost pinpoint 30+ damage, sometimes i really burn through side/center torso

edit: i brawl with it a lot, if you adapt to the gauss charge mechanic it can be a real beast

Edited by AlterSchwede, 28 September 2014 - 06:58 AM.

[Bront]

Kodyn, on 28 September 2014 - 06:12 AM, said:

Good points there Bront, unfortunately for my relationship with the T-Bolt I've become addicted to JJ's, and the increased agility that comes with them. I equate it to having AWD in a heavy mech. I love my K2, but I don't run it as much as my SHD-2K simply because I can get to more places, evade more fire, take pop-shots, and just all around move better with a JJ mech.

Try this 9SE build. 3ML, ERPPC, SRM6 and SRM4. That was my JJ build that I used to kill things with regularly. You can always swap the ERPPC for an LPL, or drop to a regular large and upgrade the engine.

The problem with that build is everything but the ERPPC is in a single location. If you're used to that, you can make it work pretty well.and protect that torso, but it ceases to be a great brawler at that point. Then again, I used to run that prior to the Hover-jet nerf.

[Kodyn]

That does look like a real fun build Bront, similar to something I would create. I am for some odd reason better with gauss than most weapons, despite not having the best aim. Seems like Gauss, ERPPC, and LB tend to be the best for me. I'll try something along the lines of yours while I grind some more CBills and decide the fate of the 'Bolt, but experience is teaching me some harsh lessons about piloting blocky, large-shouldered mechs, so it's future is still looking bleak at this point lol.

Regardless, good build, looks fun, even after JJ nerfs.(I only know post-nerf JJ, so I'm kind of used to them as-is. I assume they were once much smoother/used less heat or some such?) I actually tend to hit more with gauss and PPC pop-shots than with static aiming, I think the urgency of the timing causes me to focus quickly and make the shot worth it, much as real life target shooting is for me...take too long, my aim is worse than just trigger squeeze on first exhale...so I guess I could say I actually enjoy the JJ as-is. I think it's forced me to become a better player, heh.

I dunno, I could be asking for too much to have a mech that can pop-tart and brawl semi-efficiently, but i'm determined to make it work in an IS mech(due to CW and the unit I belong to, I stick to IS). My particular company within the unit tends to have a pretty fast-paced style, we're nearly always moving, mainly brawler builds, and tend to all move at least 70kph, most considerably higher. The opportunities to snipe are rare, and usually result from having to counter LRMs or an opposing sniper, so being able to pop up and snap off a shot with JJ while in mid-push is really useful to me.

[warner2]

The Thunderbolt is very average at best. It has a few nice quirks that make for some interesting builds but you are playing with 1 hand tied behind your back in a Thunderbolt. I only have them from Phoenix and I would not have bought them otherwise (in-fact had I known that 3 of the 4 chassis in Phoenix were so bad I would not have bought it at all - just the Shadow Hawks). The only time I use a Thunderbolt is out of sentimentality as I've got a soft spot for IS heavies.

It's basically not very good and I would not bother with it all if it's costing you time and CBills. Get some of the best chassis instead. Like a Shadow Hawk.

Edited by warner2, 28 September 2014 - 08:36 AM.

[Kodyn]

^I already have a love affair with SHDs, so I understand this sentiment fully . That's part of my problem with the 'Bolt, tbh, is that my SHD-2K just does the same things better...I even tested them with exact same weapons loadouts, the SHD stayed alive longer and did more damage lol. I'm always looking for my go-to heavy however, since SHDs will basically cover all my Med needs nicely, both for the new dropship mode, and for the fact that I like being able to cover more than one weight class anyway.

[Arctourus]

Some of mine have xls, some don't. Actually, I think there is only one with a standard, and that one is designed to get in close (the 5ss). The others all do xls just fine, depending on your loadout. If you load one up for pure face-hugging brawling, it's probably better to go standard. If you do some ranged work in them, definitely pop an xl in there.

my 5s runs xl, an lrm 20, a lpl, three mlas and two machine guns
5ss runs std with two erllas, two mlas and an lrm15
9s runs an xl with two ppc, three mlas, dual ams, one flamer, one srm4 and two machine guns
9se runs an xl, two lrm5, four mlas and one ppc.

all great fun, all a different flavor.

[Nurph]

I only own the free 9S we got earlier this year and recently felt like using it more. I've used this build for a few games so far and kinda like it. 'Team Support' Tbolt: TDR-9S

Peg everything you see with the high-mount ppc's and narc and cover the team with ams. Not intended to brawl at all with the XL. You really gotta sacrifice speed or firepower when you go standard in a 65 tonner.

[The IronSaint]

On my main account all I run in my t bolts is xl 300

[Elizander]

I prefer to brawl so I go standard with them. Mediums, SRMs and whatever ballistics you can fit on the arm.