744 replies to this topic

[Russ Bullock]

knightsljx, on 29 September 2014 - 02:52 PM, said:

Kain's point is that it will kill one variant of the mech entirely. People will just use the Prime and C exclusively after Basic-ing out the S variant. But that's not something new to this game, *cough Stalker*

Yes but keep the other JJ tweaks in mind as well - Especially that JJ turn rate - that will really make a difference in brawling for the Summoner and I suppose now the Timberwolf S

[BigBadVlad]

Here's my feedback:

Fall Damage: Sounds good, lights especially and mediums still need to be better so sounds good.

JJ Thrust: Yep, sounds good. Make that 1 JJ nearly worthless, aside from being able to help get a mech up some terrain, slowly.

JJ Turn Rate: Sounds right, Make it so!

Omnimech Fixed JJ: Sounds like something that should have been implemented from the get go. Omni-pods are supposed to be interchangeable but not overly customisable.

Destruction of Clan Side Torso: Here's the one I don't agree with you guys on just yet. I understanding the reasoning behind 20% but I just don't think it's going to make much of a difference. When a clan mech loses a side torso it typically (I know not always) loses about half it's weaponry as well. So a 20% reduction in heat dissipation is going to be a relatively small penalty. For sure the 20% reduction will have an impact but I think over time you will see it is not going to be that much of an impact. Losing half your weapons hurts far worse than the -20% heat dissipation. Now I understand perhaps this is part of baby steps but to me the above just seems like common sense to me...

Updated Reward system: Hell yeah! I just tried taking my spotting build Commando to see if I would be able to make some C-Bills doing that for fun and alas I was disappointed. The biggest advantage I saw was when I pulled back in a macth to provide ECM cover to a group of mechs pushing on our right. I think my ECM helped us pull out a win, but no specific rewards for that.

IS Quirks: Waiting to see what these will look like but my Founder's Pult may see some action again and some other chassis I like but really like (Thunderbolt, Centurion, Commando I'm looking at you...).

[Alwrathandabout42ninjas]

This is directed at Russ. It is great that jump jets are finally getting looked at but at the moment the Summoner and Timberwolf jump just as high as each other when the same amount of jump jets are used. This is incorrect and the summoner should jump higher than a Timberwolf because it is 5 tons lighter.

Could you please patch the summoner to jump higher than the T wolf, Summoner fans would love you forever.

[fleshwoundNPG]

Kain Thul, on 29 September 2014 - 02:45 PM, said:

The only thing this is going to kill for me is the use of the TBR-S at all.

Currently I have removed all JJs from it and replaced the LT and RT with other omnipods and run it as a 2 CERPPC/CGAUSS build and man, it just barely holds it now.

If the JJs are fixed then I lose 1 ton to the CT JJ and the only place I could lose weight would be a ton of ammo and 20 rounds just won't cut it. When the Timberwolf comes out for C-bills I'll just have to buy another TBR-C or Prime.

Yep, I guess I am going to strip and retire my LRM Boat S-variant. Not a JJ fan.

Also I suppose I will move my Prime loadout (with the S omnipod gives me 2 energy hardpoints on the torsos) to the C (which have 2 as well, just one in the CT) and my C (my walking Remington Shotgun mech, because LBX-20) to my Prime (but buy a C arm). No biggie.

[Sandtiger]

Russ Bullock, on 29 September 2014 - 02:45 PM, said:

Yes I suppose it is a nerf. I considered allowing the Summoner to just remove the JJ but then you need to consider every other aspect of fixed location items. I think this is the most logical and fair way to deal with fixed JJ slots. The S variant always should have had fixed JJ's I feel.

More Nerf's Russ... Tisk,..Tisk...

[N0MAD]

So more buffs to Lights which are already OP, not gona stop till a light can destroy a whole lance of Assaults in 3 seconds are you.

[Russ Bullock]

Rise or Die, on 29 September 2014 - 02:53 PM, said:

Great. Now you ruined all 3 of my Timberwolf builds since EVERYONE uses at least one Timberwolf-S omnipod. And now all three are broken. If there are more fatal nerfs that break the Timberwolf even more im not playing this game anymore. Ive spend a lot of money the last 2 years for this.

I am sorry you feel this way but this is just game development and balance. And in the end your Timberwolf's are likely still going to be the best heavy mech's in the game. Just based on hard point configurations they are kind of untouchable from that status. Has been true in every MechWarrior game to date and remains true in MWO.

It's just a dang good mech.

[Cheesefuhrer]

Bring Back my u ac 5's of old .We ac pilots are being punished beacause we can aim!!!

[Kain Demos]

fleshwoundNPG, on 29 September 2014 - 02:55 PM, said:

Yep, I guess I am going to strip and retire my LRM Boat S-variant. Not a JJ fan.

Also I suppose I will move my Prime loadout (with the S omnipod gives me 2 energy hardpoints on the torsos) to the C (which have 2 as well, just one in the CT) and my C (my walking Remington Shotgun mech, because LBX-20) to my Prime (but buy a C arm). No biggie.

Yeah I'm never happy with any nerfs but compared to what some people were proposing I can live with all of these.

I currently have 3 Timberwolf builds I use and love and will just have to retire one for a while until its possible to buy more.

Kinda regret spending the MC on my wicked Polygon "arctic" themed camo on my TBR-S now that it is getting retired though.

Let's face it, the Timberwolf has always been great and always will be. It sits at the top (75 tons) of what is arguably the best weight class and has a 375XL, ES, FF, DHS, etc.

The calls for nerfs to it will last as long as this game does so lets just hope it stops here.

Edited by Kain Thul, 29 September 2014 - 03:00 PM.

[Kaeb Odellas]

I'd really prefer non-weapon specific quirks to the ailing IS mechs. I'd rather not relegate HBK-4G pilots into a "go AC20 or go home" position. Why not give it a generalized ballistic weapon quirk instead?

[BigBadVlad]

Russ Bullock, on 29 September 2014 - 02:52 PM, said:

The S variant fixed JJ slots?

Yes I suppose but didn't it kind of feel like an exploit before?

I don't have any Clan mechs but I'm going to go out on a limb here and say holy cr@p, Russ hit the nail on the head!

[Russ Bullock]

Alwrath, on 29 September 2014 - 02:54 PM, said:

This is directed at Russ. It is great that jump jets are finally getting looked at but at the moment the Summoner and Timberwolf jump just as high as each other when the same amount of jump jets are used. This is incorrect and the summoner should jump higher than a Timberwolf because it is 5 tons lighter. Could you please patch the summoner to jump higher than the T wolf, Summoner fans would love you forever.

Since they both use the same class of JJ's your right that they behave the same way in game. You could say the same thing about comparing the 35 ton Jenner to the 30 ton spider that use the same class of JJ's.

I don't have plans just yet to apply this kind of granularity to the exact tonnage being lifted.

N0MAD, on 29 September 2014 - 02:56 PM, said:

So more buffs to Lights which are already OP, not gona stop till a light can destroy a whole lance of Assaults in 3 seconds are you.

Not sure this impacts much - they just can fall a bit further without taking leg damage. Currently at 38 m/s it felt very heavy handed.

[DasaDevil]

Are there gonna be any more quirk passes to the Summoner and mechs like the Nova so that they'd be a bit more viable? What kind of things do you plan on doing to help the clan Light Mechs? they're powerful but fodder to the IS if they are caught flat footed for the most part.

[Dracol]

Jin Ma, on 29 September 2014 - 02:53 PM, said:

Thanks for the update.. before october even!

Feedback:
I don't really understand the point of loosing heat sinks when a clan side torso is lost from a balance perspective. I mean it doesn't really add much since Once a clan loses its side torso, it loses half its weapons, its not going to need half its heat sinks anyway.

BigBadVlad, on 29 September 2014 - 02:54 PM, said:

Destruction of Clan Side Torso: Here's the one I don't agree with you guys on just yet. I understanding the reasoning behind 20% but I just don't think it's going to make much of a difference. When a clan mech loses a side torso it typically (I know not always) loses about half it's weaponry as well. So a 20% reduction in heat dissipation is going to be a relatively small penalty. For sure the 20% reduction will have an impact but I think over time you will see it is not going to be that much of an impact. Losing half your weapons hurts far worse than the -20% heat dissipation. Now I understand perhaps this is part of baby steps but to me the above just seems like common sense to me...

The devil is in the details. When does a mech lose a torso the most often? In combat of course. If a Clan mech is riding that edge, keeping their heat in the high 90's to keep damage upon the enemy... what happens when they lose a side torose? Yes, they lose half their weapons (if not an asymmetrical build with a shield side), but they also instantly lose that 20% heat reduction. That's a significant loss during the middle of a fight and could cost them their life.

Clan pilots that run cooler builds, or lose the torso when lower on the heat scale will not be as adversely affected.

[Russ Bullock]

Kaeb Odellas, on 29 September 2014 - 02:58 PM, said:

I'd really prefer non-weapon specific quirks to the ailing IS mechs. I'd rather not relegate HBK-4G pilots into a "go AC20 or go home" position. Why not give it a generalized ballistic weapon quirk instead?

It likely will end up with a general one and an AC 20 one that stack - so as I described take the AC 20 for most impact but everything else gets some love as well.

This is what we need to do to define rolls and give each variant a place to exist rather than all Hunchbacks continuing to feel relatively similar etc.

DasaDevil, on 29 September 2014 - 03:02 PM, said:

Are there gonna be any more quirk passes to the Summoner and mechs like the Nova so that they'd be a bit more viable? What kind of things do you plan on doing to help the clan Light Mechs? they're powerful but fodder to the IS if they are caught flat footed for the most part.

Clan quirk pass after I see how the IS ones settle out and how evenly matched the two sides are.

[BigBadVlad]

haha... Lights are OP!... have you seen the queue lately?!?!?!

[Hoax415]

Moderation on the Clan XL change is a reasonable way to do it, I think we'll still end up needing to put in some agility and/or movement penalty but slow and steady makes for better balance.

Hopefully we will run some more rigorous Clan vs IS testing in October and/or November. Perhaps a challenge weekend where the public solo queue is normal mixed teams but group queue is Clan vs IS?

Everything else looks solid. Add me to the huge list of players that would die to see a tier list of all IS mech variants.

Edited by Hoax415, 29 September 2014 - 03:05 PM.

[BigBadVlad]

Dracol, on 29 September 2014 - 03:02 PM, said:

The devil is in the details. When does a mech lose a torso the most often? In combat of course. If a Clan mech is riding that edge, keeping their heat in the high 90's to keep damage upon the enemy... what happens when they lose a side torose? Yes, they lose half their weapons (if not an asymmetrical build with a shield side), but they also instantly lose that 20% heat reduction. That's a significant loss during the middle of a fight and could cost them their life.

Clan pilots that run cooler builds, or lose the torso when lower on the heat scale will not be as adversely affected.

Know what happens when a similarly XL engine equipped IS mech loses a side torso?

Edited by BigBadVlad, 29 September 2014 - 03:06 PM.

[Alwrathandabout42ninjas]

Russ Bullock, on 29 September 2014 - 03:01 PM, said:

Since they both use the same class of JJ's your right that they behave the same way in game. You could say the same thing about comparing the 35 ton Jenner to the 30 ton spider that use the same class of JJ's.

I don't have plans just yet to apply this kind of granularity to the exact tonnage being lifted.



Not sure this impacts much - they just can fall a bit further without taking leg damage. Currently at 38 m/s it felt very heavy handed.

Thank you for the quick reply. Alot of people in the community feel the Highlanders jets are over nerfed in particular as well. I hope this upcoming patch boosts the Highlanders jets for the better.

[Kain Demos]

BigBadVlad, on 29 September 2014 - 03:05 PM, said:

Know what happens when a similarly XL engine equipped IS mech loses a side torso?

If an IS pilot is running a 'mech with easy to hit STs or finds the risk unacceptable they can run a STD engine.