744 replies to this topic

[Agent 0 Fortune]

Todays (October 28th) postings are a step in the wrong direction. I haven't done any fact checking until now, but todays posted changes demonstrate an willful ignorance, and serious departure from the Battletech lore these mechs should be based on.
Seriously, Centurions with SRM4 bonuses? Please name me one Centurion that has ever mounted an SRM. Here is a link, the answer is none.

How about the Wolverine 6K variant posted. A mech that has never carried a tier 2 (battletech) weapon, gets bonuses with Large Pulse Laser. I could understand "lasers" or "large * lasers" but this mech has never ever been fitted with LPL.

Same with Catapult K2, Large Lasers? really, not PPCs, the weapon it is designed to carry?

These quirks are getting very sloppy, and steering mechs down a path that is best saved for other chassis or variants.
Do you want a SRM medium mech, we already have the prime candidate, the Kintaro, Wolverine, or maybe a future Dervish.
An itch for a Lg Pulse Laser medium? That is your Wolverine 7K not 6K (hopefully this was just a typo or oversight)
A Large Laser Heavy? They are almost too numerous to mention, excluding the Catapult. Try a Thunderbolt, Ost, Lancelot, Cataphract, Grasshopper, Flashman, etc. No reason to even consider a Catapult.

I seriously hope these quirks are reviewed by a Battletech QA person, because META game changes, BUILDs change, WEAPON preferences change, but BATTLETECH has been around for 30 years, and should be your North star when you are lost.

Edited by Agent 0 Fortune, 28 October 2014 - 08:48 PM.

[Alexander MacTaggart]

Agent 0 Fortune, on 28 October 2014 - 08:46 PM, said:

Todays (October 28th) postings are a step in the wrong direction. I haven't done any fact checking until now, but todays posted changes demonstrate an willful ignorance, and serious departure from the Battletech lore these mechs should be based on.

I want to say I read/heard somewhere that PGI was taking advice from 'competitive players' for some of these quirks. I could be wrong, since I don't remember where I saw this so my brain may just be futzing with me, but if true that might explain some of these choices?

In any case, I was under the impression the whole point of quirks was to give players a reason/incentive to run builds that were closer to canon/stock instead of just fitting everything according to the current meta.

PGI, those are the kinds of quirks we need. LRM quirks on the Centurions, not SRM. PPC quirks on the K2, not ballistic.

[Mothykins]

I'm not a Lore thumper, but really, the PPC CARRIER HEAVY GETTING BUFFS FOR MEDIUM LASERS AND BALLISTICS?

Are you out of your tree?

[Myfriendscallmecoach]

After going through the new quirks posted, it seems to me like some of the quirks on various mechs are a bit mis-matched. Also the labels of Brawler, Skirmisher, and Support dont really match the quirk bonus's of some mech variants. It seems like there are unusual quirk choices for a few energy based variants, applying quirks to weapons that are not so popular.

[Sledge Sandoval]

I dont like the CN9-A Quirks.....is this a try to push the Champion Meta Variant?
There a a lot of other Mediums Mechs that better fit in this Role
The Main Weapon of the Cent A is its Ballistic Arm Weapon!

[HlynkaCG]

I essentially agree with what Agent 0 Fortune posted the quirks should have some tie to the canon loadouts. As much as I appreciate you buffing one of my favorite builds I would much rather see the locust 1V get a machine gun or generic laser buff in place of the Large Laser that it was never actually desinged to carry.

A Hunch 4G that gets bonuses for running it's classic AC20 + ML loadout? Great!

A Cent who's bonuses push it towards being a SRM boat rather than the fast Ballistic + LRM carrier it canonically was? Boooo!

[Ovion]

Quick review of the Locust Quirks now they've fixed the post:
Locust 1E - Tier 4 Brawler
(6E - common loadout, 6SPL / 6SML)

Spoiler

Additional Structure (LL&RL) +8
Armor Strength (LA&RA) 50%
Small Laser Range +30%
Energy Weapon Range +30%
Small Laser Heat Gen -10%
Energy Weapon Heat Gen -10%

Movement:
Acceleration +25%
Deceleration +50%

- Comments:
If this covers Small and Small Pulse Lasers, it'll be amazing.
I doubt it will though.
I'll try it with 6SL instead of 6SPL, but I think that SPL may still be better.
Can still run it with the SPLs and just have +30% and -10% though, rather than +60%, -20%.
Should still simply improve the build I already run regardless.

Locust 1M - Tier 5 Skirmisher
(2E, 2M - common loadout 2 ML/MPL, 2SRM2/SSRM2)

Spoiler

Additional Structure (LL&RL) +8
Armor Strength (LA&RA) 50%
Medium Laser Range +12.5%
Energy Weapon Range +12.5%
Medium Laser Cooldown -12.5%
Energy Weapon Cooldown -12.5%
Medium Laser Heat Gen -12.5%
Energy Weapon Heat Gen -12.5%
Missile Weapon Cooldown +15%
Missile Weapon Heat Gen -15%

Movement:
Acceleration +25%
Deceleration +50%

- Comments:
It'd be nice if this covered Medium Pulse aswell, but like the 1E it's doubtful.
The missile ones are a nice overall boost, and even using Pulse It'll still just improve my standard build.

Locust 1V - Tier 5 Support
(1E, 4B - common loadout 1ML/MPL, 4MG)

Spoiler

Additional Structure (LL&RL) +8
Armor Strength (LA&RA) 50%
ER-Large Cooldown +25%
Energy Weapon Cooldown +25%
ER-Large Duration -12.5%
Laser Duration -12.5%
Energy Weapon Range +15%
Ballistic Weapon Range +15%

Movement:
Acceleration +25%
Deceleration +50%

This... makes no sense.
The ERLL build is a rarely used build, and has no relation to it's stock build or purpose either.
With an ERLL, you can either fit:
An XL190 and no other weapons.
-or-
An XL170 with 2MGs and a half ton of ammo (need to drop some armour too)

+50% to cooldown, -25% duration and +15% range isn't bad for the ERLL, but... a sniping weapon on a mech that dies when it stops moving?
I feel this is the first real miss in the locust quirks.

Locust 3M - Tier 4 Brawler
(5E - Common loadout mixed Small and Medium lasers)

Spoiler

Additional Structure (LL&RL) +8
Armor Strength (LA&RA) 50%
Small Pulse Range +30%
Energy Weapon Range +30%
Small Pulse Cooldown +10%
Energy Weapon Cooldown +10%

Movement:
Acceleration +25%
Deceleration +50%

- Comments:
I can't help but feel this should have swapped quirks with the 1E.
Other than that? S'fine.

Locust 3S - Tier 4 Skirmisher
(1E, 4M - I'm not actually sure what the common builds are for this anymore. 2-4SRM2s/SSRM2s? with a ML/MPL?)

Spoiler

Additional Structure (LL&RL) +8
Armor Strength (LA&RA) 50%
Medium Laser Range +12.5%
Energy Weapon Range +12.5%
Medium Laser Cooldown +12.5%
Energy Weapon Cooldown +12.5%
Missile Weapon Range +30%
Missile Weapon Cooldown +15%

Movement:
Acceleration +25%
Deceleration +50%

- Comments: Seems alright, much the same as the 1M, with range boosts instead of cooling?

Overall the boosts seem fine, just the 3M and 1E should switch quirks, and I don't know what's going on with the 1V...

Edited by Ovion, 29 October 2014 - 04:14 AM.

[NineSortJam]

To the multiple posters lamenting that quirks aren't being used to encourage what the lore suggests the 'mechs should carry:

You have valid points, and I have some sympathy for them. However, PGI have to weigh up the conflicting demands of making a game that's true to lore, and making a game that non-Battletech aficionados want to play.

I posit that people are most likely to play Centurions when they're equipped with SRMs, because that's the build that does well in this game. You don't win matches by being true to lore. Since Centurions are considered lower-tier, their most competitive build (with SRMs) is getting buffs to make it more viable relative to other 'mechs.

I'm trying to explain PGI's decision rather than defend it. If you value true-to-lore 'mechs over competitive 'mechs, then you'll disagree with their quirks; if not, then not.

[Edit: I suppose one could argue that the game should designed so that true-to-lore builds are competitive, but I don't know how realistic that is.]

Edited by NineSortJam, 29 October 2014 - 05:41 AM.

[Ovion]

Ay.

You have to balance the original lore, and the ingame usage, plus the 'core' reason for the mech/playstyle.

And honestly, most quirks have done alright, with a few wierd outliers there.

I think the CPLT-K2 should have the PPC quirks, and I think the LCT-1V shouldn't have any ERLL quirks, but mostly glancing over it they seem fine, and like they'll increase the viability of a LOT of mechs.

[Ronan]

I'm curious why the HBK-GI, a $ mech that comes with a gauss, has UAC5 quirks?

[Macksheen]

NineSortJam, on 29 October 2014 - 05:34 AM, said:

To the multiple posters lamenting that quirks aren't being used to encourage what the lore suggests the 'mechs should carry:

You have valid points, and I have some sympathy for them. However, PGI have to weigh up the conflicting demands of making a game that's true to lore, and making a game that non-Battletech aficionados want to play.

I posit that people are most likely to play Centurions when they're equipped with SRMs, because that's the build that does well in this game. You don't win matches by being true to lore. Since Centurions are considered lower-tier, their most competitive build (with SRMs) is getting buffs to make it more viable relative to other 'mechs.

I'm trying to explain PGI's decision rather than defend it. If you value true-to-lore 'mechs over competitive 'mechs, then you'll disagree with their quirks; if not, then not.

[Edit: I suppose one could argue that the game should designed so that true-to-lore builds are competitive, but I don't know how realistic that is.]

The issue is more that they are inconsistent. Some seem lore-based. Some seem what-people-play-now based. Some are just junk that can't be figured out. The K2 quirks don't match lore or what is most often run ... so which is it?

[Macksheen]

Ronan, on 29 October 2014 - 05:59 AM, said:

I'm curious why the HBK-GI, a $ mech that comes with a gauss, has UAC5 quirks?

Exactly. Quirk the lore or quirk what people most often run, but UAC5 makes no sense. It's not like you can actually put 2 on the thing.

[Goose]

Quote

Hunchback Grid Iron - Tier 5 Skirmisher
Additional Armor (RT) +18

What does this mean, exactly? Torsos have a front and a rear, you know …

[Virtusx]

What is the difference between the below, it does not say armor but structure strength.
Additional Structure LT +10

and

Structure Strength RT +10

Edited by Virtusx, 29 October 2014 - 08:39 AM.

[cSand]

QuickDraw 4G - Tier 5 Skirmisher
-----------------------------------------
Large Laser Duration +12.5%
Laser Weapon Duration +12.5%
------------------------------------------

Does that mean that the 4G will have longer "beam times"? Or should that be - 12.5%?

Edited by cSand, 29 October 2014 - 09:32 AM.

[Hoax415]

Everything is a buff, it means that the beam time is shorter. Don't be obtuse.

[Shlkt]

Quote

Spider 5V - Tier 5 Skirmisher
...
Medium Pulse Heat Gen -12.5%
Energy Weapon Heat Gen -12.5%

I feel like these are wasted quirks. Even with the faster firing rate afforded by the cooldown buffs, it takes almost a full minute to overheat a Spider 5V armed with medium pulses. It doesn't need heat buffs because it only has 2 hardpoints.

Maybe if you're also jumping around like a madman with 8+ jump jets...

Quote

Catapult A1 - Tier 3 Support

Missile Weapon Heat Gen -10%
Missile Weapon Cooldown +10%

I'm surprised ya'll didn't give it structure buffs on the arms (read: ears) instead. That's what it needs to be usable.

Edited by Shlkt, 29 October 2014 - 09:48 AM.

[Iqfish]

Okay, the longer I look at these quirks, the more happy I get.

It looks like I can finally use my Dragons again!

Might actually get me back into the game, let's see.

[VanillaG]

NineSortJam, on 29 October 2014 - 05:34 AM, said:

To the multiple posters lamenting that quirks aren't being used to encourage what the lore suggests the 'mechs should carry:

You have valid points, and I have some sympathy for them. However, PGI have to weigh up the conflicting demands of making a game that's true to lore, and making a game that non-Battletech aficionados want to play.

I posit that people are most likely to play Centurions when they're equipped with SRMs, because that's the build that does well in this game. You don't win matches by being true to lore. Since Centurions are considered lower-tier, their most competitive build (with SRMs) is getting buffs to make it more viable relative to other 'mechs.

I'm trying to explain PGI's decision rather than defend it. If you value true-to-lore 'mechs over competitive 'mechs, then you'll disagree with their quirks; if not, then not.

[Edit: I suppose one could argue that the game should designed so that true-to-lore builds are competitive, but I don't know how realistic that is.]

In the case of the Centurion missile quirks, give it 15% general quirks instead of the 10% split with the SRM/4 quirk. That way the stock loadout gets a larger boost and you have the flexibility to switch to SRMs with similar quirks. That way a new player does not feel forced to customize their mech to get the most out of their quirks.

[Sam Hall]

Honestly a bit surprised to see that "faster missile lock time" isn't a quirk they're considering for mechs with traditionally missile-centric loadouts like the catapult or trebuchet. I mean, Artemis and TAG already exist, so it's not like the ability to modify lockon speed would be some new and alien capability that they'd have to rewrite significant chunks of their missile code for. Probably the idea just never came up in the brainstorming sessions.