166 replies to this topic

[Torgun]

1453 R, on 01 October 2014 - 08:05 AM, said:

And how do you know that the heat penalty, combined with the monstrous quirk overhaul the IS side is about to be getting, won't result in near parity, hmm? Are you...

...are you from the future? o_o...

If not, KNOCK IT OFF. Crippling/killing any Clan 'Mech that loses a shoulder specifically and solely because the Timber Wolf bothers you is a douchey move. It's hard enough to play most of the second-rung Clan 'Mechs as it is these days. Again, have you ever been faced with a Cute Fox, Badder, Nopeva, Suckoner, or Peacedove which has instilled in you that unholy, atavistic primal terror the Spheroid sides claim to hold for Clan technology? Do you anticipate having any trouble with Missed Lynxes, Nice Hamsters, or Man O'verboards? Even the Lolbringer is only a threat because of the Magic Jesus Box; without MJB, it'd be passable due to its almost Timberwolf-ish mass profusion of hardpoints but its lack of both endo and ferro, as well as its hopeless stock armor, would still pigmonkey bumharm any prospective Lolbringer builds.

Most of these things need CXL durability, as well as any other boost they can get, to make up for their hardlocked deficiencies. This is a trade any Clan pilot worth his salt is willing to take because it's a big part of what makes the tech base interesting and different and fun to play. My Badders are actually among my favorite machines of the Invasion 1 pack despite the chassis being quite solidly Tier 4 simply because they're fun to pilot, and because they remind me of the time and effort I put into making slow Ravens halfway work. A heavily-armed, low-speed gunboat light has no business in MechWarrior Online - which only makes it all the sweeter when I pull off those 600 damage games in my Badders.

Be awfully hard to do that if losing a side torso blew up the 'Mech because IS pilots are bumharmed over the Clans having any actual discernable advantage whatsoever, rather than being strictly worse in any/every given category chassis-wise to make up for all our OH SO OHH-PEE weapons. Like, y'know...those burst-firing autocannons that miss half their damage and spread the other half all over the place. Or those Streak SRM launchers with 6s cycle times. Or...

...yeah. So. Knock it off and wait for the quirk pass already.

Wow you really can't stop going back to your fantasy well where everyone is asking for the Clans to die due to single ST destruction do you? Because you just keep repeating it to make your point when I've clearly pointed out that's not what I and a huge majority are asking for. A change that has no impact is a pointless change, that's the point and there's no denying it. Because that's what this 20% heatsink change is, just something to put on paper when in reality it'll not make a difference. Clans already dominate at range and have lighter weaponry and thus can carry more of them. If they're going to keep tanking damage better without any real disadvantage even when a ST is taken out too it'll give too many advantages to the Clans, which pretty much all IS vs Clans tests have shown thus far.

Frankly you're expecting some ridiculous buffs to IS mechs with the quirks, when in reality it's just to make the worst variants somewhat better so they won't be as useless as they're now. In no way are the devs going to buff the best IS mechs, which would actually be needed to get them up at the same level as the top Clan mechs. So it would just make sense to not lets Clan mechs keep tanking like they all run superlight STD engines.

Edited by Torgun, 01 October 2014 - 09:15 AM.

[Kassatsu]

Whatzituyah, on 29 September 2014 - 09:24 PM, said:

Clans are aliens of a sort they developed advanced tech compared to the IS while the IS was stuck fighting among themselves even though some wars broke out between Clans I don't think there were that many.

I don't really know Battletech lore someone correct me if you can.

Clans have ancient advanced technology from a bygone era and were originally sort of a peacekeeping force in the IS. Then they figured the IS was about to have a massive civil war they were powerless to stop, moved out of the sphere and let them go at it. IS lost all that fancy tech and is trying to rebuild, clans kept it all those centuries and decided to go invade one day.

Not reading 9 pages to see someone said nearly the exact same thing so sue me.

As for the XL topic: We'll see. I'd be willing to bet money that it won't change substantially from the first patch that implements it, so regardless of what happens, it will be there to stay (see also: ECM, ghost heat, chassis-specific nerfs...).

[1453 R]

Question, Torg.

If we're going to make it so that a CXL 'Mech which loses a shoulder is completely crippled (loses 50% top speed/twist/turn rates, loses 66% cooling efficiency, all the other things people have been going on about in here)...then who amongst the Clans is going to hold the front? The Inner Sphere has several chassis which can buckle down to STD builds and produce sturdy frontline damage soaks, but the Clans do not have that option. There is no opportunity amongst the Clans to create a durable STD brawler. This hasn't been strictly necessary since CXL durability and a few 'Mechs' combination of armor and hitboxes allows them to take on that role anyways (not all of them, as the Mad Dog's spun-glass shoulders has very definitively proven), but if you're going to try and ensure that a Clan 'Mech which loses a shoulder is effectively removed from combat - whether by death, or by being so badly reduced in capabilities that it's no longer able to contribute in any meaningful manner to the battle - then you're basically asking Piranha to remove the C;ans' ability to stand in the brawl entirely.

A Clan 'Mech in the thick of an Inner Sphere-style scrum should rightly feel very pressured by superior Spheroid durability, heat efficiency, and the Sphere's vastly superior autocannons - and as a Clan pilot, I can guarantee you that I very much do feel those things - but the Clans should also feel like they have a fighting chance if they're smart, cautious and crafty. Not "Whelp, the Spheroids got inside 300 meters of us. Everybody /resign, we're done here."

[Almond Brown]

Dracol, on 30 September 2014 - 12:30 PM, said:

Thinking this idea through to completion, if it were implemented, you remove all reasons to equip a standard engine.

IS when deciding on which engine to take can either:
A: lose a side torso with zero negative effects outside of equipment located in the side and arm at the cost of weight
B: Risk death by side torso destruction while gaining extra tonnage to increase their combat performance

The Freeborns have the freedom to choose what best suits their plays styles.

The genetically bred, warrior society Trueborn are restricted to a specific engine depending on chassis. It provides the weight savings without the risk of death.

This forced selection bears a penalty in the way of heat if a side torso is destroyed. More aggresive minded Mechwarriors who favor builds with symmetrical weapons layouts will feel the penalty the least if not at all. Mechwarriors who favor a more defensive, asymmetrical loadout are now penalized when their shield side is destroyed. Their ability to maintain 100% weapon efficiency after side torso destruction has been reduced.


Again, implement this and you remove all reasons to equip a standard or XL engine.

The IS L-XL was intro'd in 3062 btw...

[Bront]

TT rules would have the mech generate 10 extra heat per turn (Nullifying 10 SHS/5SHS) on 2 engine hits. 20% isn't that, but doesn't seem unreasonable. Remember, he mentioned all engine HS, and the example in the Timberwolf had 15, so 3 got nullified. that included the ones stored in the engine and not just the core 10. And if it only kills the true double HS, it's a bigger hit since any HS after the first 10 in the engine are 1.4 HSs. SO, by default, that would be 6 of it's 27 effective SHS. Still doesn't feel like enough, but let's give it a try.

Edited by Bront, 01 October 2014 - 09:44 AM.

[Almond Brown]

ManDaisy, on 30 September 2014 - 03:57 PM, said:

again 20% heat sink loss after losing half your weapons = nothing.

Very much build dependent. Here is a quick Clan Mech build that after loses the LT, loses a LRM20 and 20% of its base Heat efficiency. The 20% lose will hurt that Mech greatly. It could be a single Ballistic vs the LRM in the left side as well. The lose of the RT would be devastating regardless.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...ab1037d5f25182f

P.S. Anyone's "personal opinion" of that "build" matters SFA...

Edited by Almond Brown, 01 October 2014 - 10:16 AM.

[Almond Brown]

Hillslam, on 30 September 2014 - 04:39 PM, said:

I said it elsewhere and I'll say it here to go on record so I can fling "I TOLD YOU SO" in your faces later:

This "penalty" is a non-penalty and will be completely ignored, irrelevant, invisible and non-intrusive to clan mech piloting customers at all.

It will accomplish nothing and hence we'll have another go round of "balancing".

CLIFF'S NOTES:
Losing 50% of your weapons but only 20% of your cooling = ROFL whatever.

What is really ROFL is that you somehow build your Clan Mechs without assigning any non-engine based DHS's. Otherwise, those that are mounted in the ST that is lost lost are also lost. ROFL indeed...