100 replies to this topic

[Mystere]

Metus regem, on 01 October 2014 - 08:37 AM, said:

No, just get behind it, and give it a new bleeding ***-hole. It's the same with a Dire Wolf, get behind and **** it.

I regret to say that your reply is a case of:

[Molossian Dog]

C´mon Mystere, let the man vent...well...whatever made him write such classy stuff.

[Ultimax]

cdlord, on 01 October 2014 - 08:19 AM, said:

PGI has stated in the past that they plan to bring in different weapons manufacturers (Pontiac AC20 vs the Luxor AC20). I think this would be an awesome way to do this, no difference in ammo, weight, crits, nothing except single slug vs burst fire like the Clans. Not sure if PGI is still planning on it or if they have provided more info to it, but this would satisfy everything.

We don't even have perfect weapon balance now, I don't think introducing different variants of weapons we have now is going to help that.

I think we could potentially have small bonuses for different manufacturers but it would be more on the lines of slightly higher heat, for slightly more damage or slightly shorter range for slightly shorter beam time, etc.

Not "Burst fire" from MFG A and "Completely superior FLD" from MFG B.


I mean we could have it, but the A version would be irrelevant.

Mystere, on 01 October 2014 - 08:34 AM, said:

This thread is also quite funny because the mental gymnastics that Clan fans have been accused of using to preserve their toys are almost the same mental gymnastics being used by IS fans to preserve their toys.

You weren't addressing me, but I'm defending front loaded IS autocannons in this thread.

I've also defended several clan tech items.


I'm trying to preserve everyone's toys from the constant nerfherding by players who apparently can only enjoy a game unless everyone throws wet noodles at each other. (not cdlord specifically, but these forums are pretty ridiculous)

Edited by Ultimatum X, 01 October 2014 - 08:51 PM.

[CDLord HHGD]

Perfect balance is a myth. But whatever, those who actually understood what I was getting at have replied with reasonable arguments, both for an against. This thread can be closed.

[Kaptain]

Don't touch my ac20. This is one of few weapons i still really enjoy.

[Bront]

I'd simply have all ACs other than the AC2 fire 2 shots rather than 1. It's simple, it gives the IS a slight advantage, and it still means the AC20 is desirable, but it fixes FLD a bit without a major change.

[CDLord HHGD]

Kaptain, on 01 October 2014 - 09:39 AM, said:

Don't touch my ac20. This is one of few weapons i still really enjoy.

Sigh.......

[HashtagComStarWasRight]

Mystere, on 01 October 2014 - 08:21 AM, said:

Considering that people do not seem to like so-called "trash" equipment in the game, and almost all of you consider Clan ACs to be trash, then the more logical course of action is to make Clan ACs act like IS ACs.

You can take my burst-fire ACs from my cold dead hands.

[Kaeb Odellas]

Cold.
Dead.
Hand actuators.

[Vassago Rain]

Mystere, on 01 October 2014 - 08:30 AM, said:

Food for Thought: Asymmetric Balance

Most people here think of balance in the narrowest of terms: 1-on-1 balance, also known as equality. Why are people so afraid of asymmetric balance, or N-on-M? Yes it is hard to achieve. But when did doing something "hard" stop people from accomplishing new and potentially better things?

End of my Food for Thought

Because one side is better, and the other gets saddled with horde 'bonuses' so the elite warriors of the less hordey side grind out resources slower.

So you're essentially telling the IS players that their robots are bad, and they need to rely on strength in numbers to win. You're not expected to do damage, or get kills, just meatshield so your buddy can fire his impotent weapons at the clans while you're dead on the ground.

And thus all IS players left for the clans, leaving CW clan vs clan forever.

[Thunder Child]

Personally, I'd love to have an "Auto" Cannon. Or, to be more precise, a Semi-Auto Cannon. I'd quite happily have an AC20 that I could fire on Semi-Auto for Reduced Damage per slug, but still be able to get the 20 in 4 seconds, if I stayed on target. I'd also love to have a Machine gun-eske AC variant, that basically sprays 20 points of damage over 4 seconds, in a stream of say, 200-300 smaller slugs. Though, that may kill the server....

[Reported for Inappropriate Name]

Vassago Rain, on 01 October 2014 - 10:56 PM, said:

Because one side is better, and the other gets saddled with horde 'bonuses' so the elite warriors of the less hordey side grind out resources slower.

So you're essentially telling the IS players that their robots are bad, and they need to rely on strength in numbers to win. You're not expected to do damage, or get kills, just meatshield so your buddy can fire his impotent weapons at the clans while you're dead on the ground.

And thus all IS players left for the clans, leaving CW clan vs clan forever.

well is mechs are typically set up for a certain type of weapon style. it begs to reason that these mechs would be optimized one way or another by mechbay engineers to do the best job it can. if you ask me is mechs should have a sort of point customization system. kind of like how hawken had but less bad. or if you could slot quirks yourself like omnipods.

Edited by Catalina Steiner, 04 October 2014 - 02:04 PM.

[A Man In A Can]

IS Ultras may need the burst-fire treatment in preparation for when IS Ultra 10s and 20s arrive (3058+), but IS regular ACs, no way. Leave them as is and use them as the benchmark for converting the Clan regular ACs to slug-type with the Clan versions firing slower so the IS ACs still retain a DPS advantage.

[Lily from animove]

Not sure about AC's.

feeling wise an AC 20 hardly feels "auto" when firing only one big ball every 4 secs. So a stream of them would make more sense. But then the PP damage is some advantage for the IS. Maybe giving IS AC's a shorter burst time for that stream of bulltes.

[Tkhaw]

I won't change the AC20 to streaming bullets at the moment.

Perhaps when PGI decides to introduce manufacturer specific equipment... Now we are talking

[HashtagComStarWasRight]

Mechwarrior Mousse, on 02 October 2014 - 01:35 AM, said:

IS Ultras may need the burst-fire treatment in preparation for when IS Ultra 10s and 20s arrive (3058+), but IS regular ACs, no way. Leave them as is and use them as the benchmark for converting the Clan regular ACs to slug-type with the Clan versions firing slower so the IS ACs still retain a DPS advantage.

Clans don't use 'regular' ACs. The only reason they have 'regular' ones right now is because PGI hasn't worked out how to have LBXs switch ammo types. And even 'regular' lan ACs fire in bursts (or so I'm told; since there's no real reason to buy them I haven't).

[Mystere]

<Think Community Warfare for all of the below comments>

Vassago Rain, on 01 October 2014 - 10:56 PM, said:

Because one side is better, and the other gets saddled with horde 'bonuses' so the elite warriors of the less hordey side grind out resources slower.

Why does everything have to be reduced to farming for resources? When did that take precedence over fighting? I'm here for the latter. Did you go here for the former?

Vassago Rain, on 01 October 2014 - 10:56 PM, said:

So you're essentially telling the IS players that their robots are bad, and they need to rely on strength in numbers to win. You're not expected to do damage, or get kills, just meatshield so your buddy can fire his impotent weapons at the clans while you're dead on the ground.

Exaggerations are the bread and butter of these forums, aren't they? Or are people wetting their pants in fear of the unknown?

Battles can be setup such that victory conditions, map configurations, unit compositions, and (gasp) rewards can be tailored to mitigate any and all inherent advantages of the Clans:

• IS can have more units and/or reinforcements
  
• IS can have their reinforcements arrive faster and in more favorable locations
  
• a logistics system can be tailored to favor the IS under certain conditions
  
• new maps can be created to be IS friendly (lots of cover, high heat, etc.) especially when defending
  
• prior to battle, defending IS units can be allowed to place ground-based sensors in specific grid locations (possibly as part of a logistics and/or intelligence system)
  
• Clans can be denied use of artillery and air strikes on certain planets and/or maps (possibly as part of a logistics system)
  
• IS pilots can earn more for kill assists
  
• Clan pilots can earn better for doing 100% damage on the enemy

Further tweaks like the following can also be done:

• IS lasers can be made even cooler while retaining their lower range and damage
  
• Clan ballistics and missiles can have less ammo per ton (possibly as part of a logistics system)

Vassago Rain, on 01 October 2014 - 10:56 PM, said:

And thus all IS players left for the clans, leaving CW clan vs clan forever.

Yes, exaggerations are indeed the bread and butter of these forums.

[Vassago Rain]

Mystere, on 02 October 2014 - 06:22 AM, said:

<Think Community Warfare for all of the below comments>



Why does everything have to be reduced to farming for resources? When did that take precedence over fighting? I'm here for the latter. Did you go here for the former?




Exaggerations are the bread and butter of these forums, aren't they? Or are people wetting their pants in fear of the unknown?

Battles can be setup such that victory conditions, map configurations, unit compositions, and (gasp) rewards can be tailored to mitigate any and all inherent advantages of the Clans:

• IS can have more units and/or reinforcements
  
• IS can have their reinforcements arrive faster and in more favorable locations
  
• a logistics system can be tailored to favor the IS under certain conditions
  
• new maps can be created to be IS friendly (lots of cover, high heat, etc.) especially when defending
  
• prior to battle, defending IS units can be allowed to place ground-based sensors in specific grid locations (possibly as part of a logistics and/or intelligence system)
  
• Clans can be denied use of artillery and air strikes on certain planets and/or maps (possibly as part of a logistics system)
  
• IS pilots can earn more for kill assists
  
• Clan pilots can earn better for doing 100% damage on the enemy

Further tweaks like the following can also be done:

• IS lasers can be made even cooler while retaining their lower range and damage
  
• Clan ballistics and missiles can have less ammo per ton (possibly as part of a logistics system)

Yes, exaggerations are indeed the bread and butter of these forums.

>you can be the worthless weaksauce cannon fodder guy here.
>don't expect any kills, and all your options are by design weak.
>bro, just use your numbers! BRO! Zerg the enemy, bro!

Russ has repeatedly explained why you can't have uber clans on one side, and weak IS on the other. No one's gonna be IS, because no one wants to fight at a disadvantage, especially when they're told that their choices are weaker by design, and they're expected to die a lot.

So essentially, PGI would be admitting that they wasted years on IS mechs, when they should have clearly made the game about the wars of reaving, or some other tech-par clan era, since now all those weak, basic mechs will never be used by anyone.



So you can be the swarm guys who are there to die and get farmed, or the heroes who are doing the farming. What kind of choice is that? There's no choice.

Edited by Vassago Rain, 02 October 2014 - 07:24 AM.

[Mystere]

Vassago Rain, on 02 October 2014 - 07:23 AM, said:

>you can be the worthless weaksauce cannon fodder guy here.
>don't expect any kills, and all your options are by design weak.
>bro, just use your numbers! BRO! Zerg the enemy, bro!

Russ has repeatedly explained why you can't have uber clans on one side, and weak IS on the other. No one's gonna be IS, because no one wants to fight at a disadvantage, especially when they're told that their choices are weaker by design, and they're expected to die a lot.

So essentially, PGI would be admitting that they wasted years on IS mechs, when they should have clearly made the game about the wars of reaving, or some other tech-par clan era, since now all those weak, basic mechs will never be used by anyone.



So you can be the swarm guys who are there to die and get farmed, or the heroes who are doing the farming. What kind of choice is that? There's no choice.

For all your words and pretty picture, not once did you address any of the items I mentioned. SMH.

Edited by Mystere, 02 October 2014 - 09:14 AM.

[Syfurion]

Please don't. The sound of my autocannons is the reason I pilot my Ilya, which is literally the only IS mech I own.