24 replies to this topic

[Willard Phule]

I know this is a re-hash of a topic that's been beat to death on the forums, but I'm not sure if it's been said quite this way.....so, here goes.

Am I the only one that's noticed that virtually every "adjustment" to the game (read as: Nerf) seems to be designed for a single purpose...to make the game easier for new players.

I mean, let's take a look at some of the more recent "adjustments" and how they effected things.

Jump Jets: Granted, I hate "poptarts" as much as the next guy and for a while there, they were EVERYWHERE. So, the "adjustment" comes along and pretty much makes Highlanders and Victors completely worthless as far as being able to jump is concerned (nevermind the fact that the Highlander was specifically designed with heavier leg structure to allow it to jump on other 'mech's heads). The nerf also hurt players that use single JJs to maneuver around maps that have terrain bugs....just not so much.

Why was this?

Seems to me that newer players simply couldn't grasp or apply the common defenses against "poptarting." Don't run into the open, move and shoot at the same time, take advantage of cover, twist your torso to take damage to different locations instead of the CT all the time....all of these things work well against the PPC/Gauss meta build. But, it takes time and experience to learn them...especially the move and shoot at the same time thing. New players can't seem to get the hang of it easily.

LRMs: First, due to popular demand, LRM speed was increased....then IMMEDIATELY decreased due to the complaints on the forums/twitter/reddit about how they were simply overpowered.

Again, why was this?

New players really love the whole concept of "stay behind everyone else, look for red doritos, lock on to them and use the 'fire and forget' weapon." I'm NOT saying that everyone that uses LRMs is a "new player," I'm just saying that it is by far the weapon of choice for players learning the game. Virtually every "adjustment" we've seen with regard to LRMs (speed, damage, hit location, AMS and all it's module variants, TAG and NARC negating ECM) have all been made with the new player in mind.

Again, the primary defenses against them seem to be beyond the comprehension of new players. Don't stand in the open, use cover, twist your torso to spread the damage, use AMS if you have a spot for it....all far too hard to do for someone that can't shoot without standing still and zooming in.

All the other "adjustments" since the Clans came out....not being able to fire more than 2 Gauss Rifles at a time....TTK over PPFLD with the Clan ballistics.....ghost heat.....you name it. It was all designed to make it easier for newer players to stay alive longer.

So...and this is what puzzles me the most....if every "adjustment" Paul makes with his Football bat designed to make it easier for new players....why are they thrown into general population in the solo queue as opposed to being segregated long enough for them to actually learn some of these easier tactics?

I could be snarky and say "because the developers can't get that stuff down, either, and since they figure that they're mid-range players themselves, then the new players should be too." I mean, we all saw how they played during the "kill a Dev weekend." Some of them are fairly good...some, not so much. But, I doubt that's the case. Personally, I just think it's yet another not too well thought out plan that wasn't good on paper and was a whole lot worse in practice.

Edited by Willard Phule, 01 October 2014 - 04:32 AM.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Because a game is filled with players of all different skill levels and therefore needs to try and cater to everyone.

That means that occasionally a balance patch comes along that will frustrate certain veteran and skilled players, but will help new players immensely.

A game can't just cater to the more skilled players who have learned to adapt. It leaves the learning curve too steep for new comers and discourages many players from staying. A game like this especially needs a constant supply of new players with full pockets (to keep paying developers and artists and keep the servers running).

Think of it this way. Good players adapt and adapt rather well. They adapt to jump snipe tactics, LRM rain tactics, and Dire whale tactics to name a few. They can also adapt to loosing a play style to a balance pass (whether it be a nerf or buff).

Just remember, balancing for the larger general audience is better in the long run believe it or not.

[Mechteric]

Question: Do you think they should never balance anything?


I don't agree with the method of many of their balancing attempts (jets, ghost heat, PPC projectile), but that doesn't mean I don't think they needed to do some form of balancing to make the game more fun, more interesting, in order to not let the game die the poptarted fate of Mechwarrior 4.


Obviously at this point in time I'm not that thrilled with the gameplay and don't play nearly as much as I used to (jets, ghost heat primarily are my issues), but at least its still not like MW4. With any luck they'll start to take our suggesions on jets, heat, ECM, and beyond to make the game we'll want to play more often.

Edited by CapperDeluxe, 01 October 2014 - 04:52 AM.

[Kilo 40]

so...

LRMs are a noob friendly weapon to use, so lots of noobs use them. but your conclusion is that reducing LRM speed helps noobs avoid LRMs better?

[MeiSooHaityu]

CapperDeluxe, on 01 October 2014 - 04:50 AM, said:

Question: Do you think they should never balance anything?


I don't agree with the method of many of their balancing attempts (jets, ghost heat, PPC projectile), but that doesn't mean I don't think they needed to do some form of balancing to make the game more fun, more interesting, in order to not let the game die the poptarted fate of Mechwarrior 4.

Plus a nerf or buff isn't permanent either. The JJs were nerfed for jump sniping, but it made them hard to use with bigger mechs. Since it is now an issue of maneuverability, PGI will probably revisit it and make another adjustment.

Ghost heat might be eliminated if another system can be devised.

In any case, it is good these balance passes happen (even if they can be a bit heavy handed from time to time). Anything that helps the general populace.

[Mercer Skye]

I'm sensing someone who just doesn't like change.

Nevermind that poptarting was a cancerous tumor in this game. We should have just kept it because the 'leet uver pwnzorz' types were really good at it, and the game should only ever be adjusted according to how the upper echelon play.


Nevermind Jump Jets were implemented in a fashion that just was never intended in the Battletech universe. Granted, neither was ghost heat, but I can forgive an honest attempt to keep things from getting disgusting (Though I mourn for the DoA prime Nova variant)

Nevermind that the whole vicious LRM/ECM 'busted circle' is an abysmal pit that just sucks all the fun out of matches when you have too much of either.

I just can't take this very seriously with a statement like this ;

Willard Phule, on 01 October 2014 - 04:31 AM, said:

All the other "adjustments" since the Clans came out....not being able to fire more than 2 Gauss Rifles at a time....TTK over PPFLD with the Clan ballistics.....ghost heat.....you name it. It was all designed to make it easier for newer players to stay alive longer.

I'm guessing you weren't along for the 'ride of hope' that was the clan tech explanation cycle. Where they were going to fire like 'real' autocannons (As in NOT single shot). Not being able to fire more than two gauss at a time...../facepalm. And that's just throwing it together quickly. But you're absolutely right, we should have the ability to completely blow a 'mech off the face of a map from across the map with a practically heat neutral build.

I just can't fathom how narrow minded this comes off. The 'competitive' tryhard crowd is always going to find the min/max regardless of what happens. What I'm really seeing out of this is someone who has copied what the tryhards have figured out, and is now on edge about being victim to the masses until such a time as the tryhard consortium delivers unto us the new meta.

TLDR - I completely and utterly disagree with your entire assessment, and question your grasp of how important it is to not only bring about adjustments for things that are just not fun to play against, but why those things just aren't fun to play against.

-As an aside, you can argue how much 'skill' it takes to poptart, but I'll always see those that engaged in the tactic as skilless hacks, abusing a broken system to gain an edge. Yeah, I know, that mentality makes me a scrub, but I just fail to see at what point in 'competitive' anything sportsmanship flew out the window, and it became wholesale acceptable to take what amounts to be a nuclear sized crap on someone else's experience to better ones' own.

....maybe I'm just bitter and root too hard for the underdog.

[Fut]

MeiSooHaityu, on 01 October 2014 - 04:45 AM, said:

Just remember, balancing for the larger general audience is better in the long run believe it or not.

To a degree... If changing the game to suit a larger general audience ends up watering the game down too much it'll cease to be fun. Part of the reason why this game is as fun as it is at the moment, is because it's a difficult game. The challenge of it is what makes victory so damn sweet.

[Tristan Winter]

Willard Phule, on 01 October 2014 - 04:31 AM, said:

Am I the only one that's noticed that virtually every "adjustment" to the game (read as: Nerf) seems to be designed for a single purpose...to make the game easier for new players.

"Notice" isn't the right word here. It's not like you uncovered a fact. That's just your theory. But let me ask you a question to reconsider your theory. Can you list how many different factors are designed to give veteran players an advantage and make the game harder for new players?

Think about it. Here's my list.

Spoiler

• New players don't have C-bills to buy the best mechs, even if they know what the best mechs are. Which many don't.
  
• New players don't have C-bills to buy the best engines. Most light and medium mechs need huge XL engines, which are expensive. And even many of the best heavy and assault mech builds use XL engines, which are even more expensive.
  
• New players don't have C-bills to buy all the necessary upgrades. DHS, Endo, FF and Artemis.
  
• New players don't have mastered mechs with double basic skill bonuses.
  
• New players can't afford consumables, because they need the C-bills for the stuff above.
  
• New players don't have mech modules or weapon modules. Weapon modules used to be a trade-off, now they're a straight buff for veteran players.

And that's just the basic framework of the game. I'm not even getting into the lack of tutorials, which means a lot of new players don't know how NARC, TAG, ECM, UAVs, BAP and PPCs interact. And of course, they don't know the meta, they don't know which weapons suck, they don't know the maps, etc.

And yet, new players are still playing against veterans who enjoy ALL of these advantages. I've seen new players go up against Founders who have been playing the game for 2 years, with the most pimped-out mastered mechs in existence.

Even if we assume that PGI is intentionally trying to make the game easier for new players... are they really doing enough?

And then there's the other question, like... were poptarts, PPC Stalkers and LRM boats not a problem in organized group play for veteran players? I think they were. And there's a difference between a bad poptart and a good poptart. The good ones were not so easy to counter. Same as bad PPC Stalkers and bad LRM boats. Those were never a problem.

[Sergeant Random]

LRMs are a noob weapon coz u can skill up a missile hardpoint mech pretty fast with self-spotted assists.

want to make lrms an expert's weapon?
http://mwomercs.com/...uirk-qq-thread/

[Willard Phule]

Kilo 40, on 01 October 2014 - 04:55 AM, said:

so...

LRMs are a noob friendly weapon to use, so lots of noobs use them. but your conclusion is that reducing LRM speed helps noobs avoid LRMs better?

Frankly, I personally think adjusting the trajectory (more of a direct line than a high arcing fire) would go a lot further to "adjust" LRMs properly than anything having to do with speed....but, to be completely honest, I found them more viable right after the speed increase.

Hear me out, first, before you flame me. I haven't used LRMs in quite some time due to all the ECM/AMS/Football Batting of them recently....but, even when I used them, I didn't "boat" them. I've always used the concept of "well-rounded" loadout....something for long or long/medium range, something for short or short/medium. Never leave yourself without something you can use once one weapon system goes down. Now, that's a concept that...once again...seems to escape the common new player.

Fut, on 01 October 2014 - 05:05 AM, said:

To a degree... If changing the game to suit a larger general audience ends up watering the game down too much it'll cease to be fun. Part of the reason why this game is as fun as it is at the moment, is because it's a difficult game. The challenge of it is what makes victory so damn sweet.

A good example of that is World of Warcraft. They watered it down and made it easier for new players so many times that a lot of the "veteran" players simply left. Granted, it's still making them money, but nowhere near as much as it did.

Nicolai Kabrinsky, on 01 October 2014 - 05:05 AM, said:

"Notice" isn't the right word here. It's not like you uncovered a fact. That's just your theory.

Very true. It's just a theory. I don't play as much as I used to....to be completely honest, I really can't play more than three rounds before I get frustrated and have to move on to something else for entertainment. That's primarily because the solo queue has become a complete "no Elo" zone. We were told that "new players" (those in their first 25 matches) would be removed from general play until they've completed their Cadet Matches back when the Clans were released and the Matchmaker re-written. That is, in fact, not the case. I see them all the time. I'm obviously not a "top tier" player, but I'd like to think I'm somewhere in the mid-range. I shouldn't be on teams with 50% new players consistently.

Nicolai Kabrinsky, on 01 October 2014 - 05:05 AM, said:

But let me ask you a question to reconsider your theory. Can you list how many different factors are designed to give veteran players an advantage and make the game harder for new players?

Think about it. Here's my list.

• New players don't have C-bills to buy the best mechs, even if they know what the best mechs are. Which many don't.

Oh, absolutely. Especially since the massive C-bill nerfs. But, let me ask you a question. Ever notice a tendency towards certain mechs/builds they DO go with as soon as they can afford them? It's been my experience (remember what I said about having to play with "new players" constantly) their overall favorite is the D-DC LRM boat build. For some reason, they seem to think that the ECM gives them the ability to simply stand in the open and spam LRMs until they run out of ammo. And, they never seem to give them anything as backup except a couple of medium lasers and a couple of machineguns.

Nicolai Kabrinsky, on 01 October 2014 - 05:05 AM, said:

• New players don't have C-bills to buy the best engines. Most light and medium mechs need huge XL engines, which are expensive. And even many of the best heavy and assault mech builds use XL engines, which are even more expensive.
  
• New players don't have C-bills to buy all the necessary upgrades. DHS, Endo, FF and Artemis.
  
• New players don't have mastered mechs with double basic skill bonuses.
  
• New players can't afford consumables, because they need the C-bills for the stuff above.
  
• New players don't have mech modules or weapon modules. Weapon modules used to be a trade-off, now they're a straight buff for veteran players.

No question about any of that, with the exception of mastering a given mech. Granted, there aren't many that do it, but quite a few will pick a chassis they like, use it for their "cadet matches," then buy a similar chassis when they can...and build on the XP they've earned with it. A good example is the Cataphract 3D. But other than that, yes, you're absolutely right.

That having been said, again, it makes you wonder why they're in the general population with everyone else, doesn't it? A "new player" with his first, unmastered, unmoduled, non-upgraded mech isn't the equal of a veteran that has all the bells and whistles. Even if you use the D-DC LRM boat example. Sure, it's a terrible build, but if you've got Advanced Target Decay, Artillery Strike, Radar Deprivation, Endo Steel, ECM (because it doesn't come with it), Mastery on the tree....it's NOWHERE near the equal of a "fresh out of the box" D-DC.

Nicolai Kabrinsky, on 01 October 2014 - 05:05 AM, said:

And that's just the basic framework of the game. I'm not even getting into the lack of tutorials, which means a lot of new players don't know how NARC, TAG, ECM, UAVs, BAP and PPCs interact. And of course, they don't know the meta, they don't know which weapons suck, they don't know the maps, etc.


And yet, new players are still playing against veterans who enjoy ALL of these advantages. I've seen new players go up against Founders who have been playing the game for 2 years, with the most pimped-out mastered mechs in existence.

Even if we assume that PGI is intentionally trying to make the game easier for new players... are they really doing enough?

Which is kind of what I'm saying here. If you took all the time and effort they've put into making the game easier for new players (time is money, after all) and applied that to a "new player experience" with proper tutorials and such, you'd think you'd have better player retention.

Nicolai Kabrinsky, on 01 October 2014 - 05:05 AM, said:

And then there's the other question, like... were poptarts, PPC Stalkers and LRM boats not a problem in organized group play for veteran players? I think they were. And there's a difference between a bad poptart and a good poptart. The good ones were not so easy to counter. Same as bad PPC Stalkers and bad LRM boats. Those were never a problem.

Personally, I never had a problem with them. But, I'm not a new player. I get what you're saying and I absolutely agree.

[SI The Joker]

Willard Phule, on 01 October 2014 - 04:31 AM, said:

Am I the only one that's noticed that virtually every "adjustment" to the game (read as: Nerf) seems to be designed for a single purpose...to make the game easier for new players.

-- Because Reasons That Were Snipped --

I would completely disagree with this statement.

Changes I see coming in are welcome changes to me and I've been around a little while, now. Here's the thing... It's not just about new players but guess what? It kinda is. It's not just about us founders but guess what? It kinda is. PGI needs to take into account the wants and expectations of how many thousands of people many of whom have their own romantic love/passion of the game/genre/universe (as you've illustrated very well) and almost just as many of whom have no clue what Battletech is, what it means to those who love it or anything like that. 30+ years of history? Pssshtaw! Give me a flying stompy robot that goes pew pew pew!

To make a successful business, PGI needs to balance across all of that. How easy is that? Not very, as we are all well aware.

In the end, though this is a development process not a fixed plan... not a definite "we are doing this and then IT'S OVA!" Are all the changes good ones? Mmmm no... but is every at-bat or every football down good? Mmmm no.

If you don't like the change today... odds are there are many like you who will drive another change (also something you described) to change the change. It's changeception! It's a process my man... sometimes it's trial and error... sometimes it's a full on winner.


Now with regard to new players - I've said this elsewhere... new players should start at a ZERO rating and work their way UP from there. I see no reason to have new players in matches with anyone who has been playing for more than a few months. Ramping players up to their appropriate skill level is a much better experience (in my opinion) than tossing them into the "average" pile from the start.

Edited by SI The Joker, 01 October 2014 - 05:27 AM.

[Willard Phule]

Sergeant Random, on 01 October 2014 - 05:07 AM, said:

LRMs are a noob weapon coz u can skill up a missile hardpoint mech pretty fast with self-spotted assists.

want to make lrms an expert's weapon?
http://mwomercs.com/...uirk-qq-thread/

Although I hesitate to dignify that statement with a response, and I'm going to hate myself for even doing so, I think you've got the wrong idea of what I was saying. Allow me to illustrate my point.

PGI has released a new mech. It is called the Derpinator. It comes with 4 missile hardpoints and 4 energy hardpoints.

A new player, or "noob" as you so eloquently put it, would "boat" LRMs with it. Let's say 4 LRM20s and as much ammo as can be packed on.

An experience player would put 4 medium lasers on it and would take the LRMs down to something more manageable. He/she would do this because once you're out of ammo, you're pretty much useless.

As for them being non-viable for experienced players and used only by "noobs," I have to disagree. They are great for harassing the enemy, can be used as suppressive fire (to make the enemy keep their heads down), they can be used to force the enemy into a certain location (thus shaping the battlefield to your team's advantage) and in many cases are extremely viable. But, again, it is simply one weapon system that can be used. To rely solely on any single weapon system, with no backup, is fairly weak.

Take, for example, the dual guass Jager. It's vicious if you walk into one, stand still, zoom in and try to duke it out like gunslingers in the Wild West. The downside, however, is ammo dependency coupled with the vulnerability of them having to be in the arms. Once you lose the Gauss Rifles, you're pretty much a self-propelled fire hydrant. If, however, you throw a couple of medium lasers on there.....you've still got something you can use. Plenty of matches have been won by a single medium laser.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Fut, on 01 October 2014 - 05:05 AM, said:

To a degree... If changing the game to suit a larger general audience ends up watering the game down too much it'll cease to be fun. Part of the reason why this game is as fun as it is at the moment, is because it's a difficult game. The challenge of it is what makes victory so damn sweet.

I agree with that as well. It is a fine line to walk for sure.

As for the person who mentioned WoW lost some players due to the watering down of the game...WoW is also as old as dirt. I'm sure that had something to do with it as well. A game that has been around that long is going to decline eventually. Nothing lasts forever.

[Willard Phule]

SI The Joker, on 01 October 2014 - 05:25 AM, said:

Changes I see coming in are welcome changes to me and I've been around a little while, now. Here's the thing... It's not just about new players but guess what? It kinda is. It's not just about us founders but guess what? It kinda is. PGI needs to take into account the wants and expectations of how many thousands of people many of whom have their own romantic love/passion of the game/genre/universe (as you've illustrated very well) and almost just as many of whom have no clue what Battletech is, what it means to those who love it or anything like that. 30+ years of history? Pssshtaw! Give me a flying stompy robot that goes pew pew pew!

I suppose. Maybe. I guess. Some of the upcoming change sound good on paper but...I'm a little leery about taking PGI at their word on anything. I mean...I'm not a Founder or anything, I've only been around since Open Beta...but their track record of patches/nerfs/tweaks isn't good. Sure, they've had a couple of successes, but the vast majority of the time they break more than they fix...and most of the time, instead of actually fixing the problem, they slap a bandage on it and put the issue on the back-burner to be "fixed later."

The funny part about the difference between those that love the BT universe and those that want stompy pew-pew robots is that PGI doesn't seem to notice the difference, either. If it weren't for you Founders, there wouldn't be an MW:O. Someone had to give them the seed money to start development but...once they went to the cash-grab model, none of that mattered anymore. It's a shame, really.

SI The Joker, on 01 October 2014 - 05:25 AM, said:

To make a successful business, PGI needs to balance across all of that. How easy is that? Not very, as we are all well aware.

In the end, though this is a development process not a fixed plan... not a definite "we are doing this and then IT'S OVA!" Are all the changes good ones? Mmmm no... but is every at-bat or every football down good? Mmmm no.

If you don't like the change today... odds are there are many like you who will drive another change (also something you described) to change the change. It's changeception! It's a process my man... sometimes it's trial and error... sometimes it's a full on winner.

I suppose that's pretty much accurate. But, I'd like to point out other start-up companies that seem to be doing it right as opposed to what PGI's doing.

Take a look at Pathfinder Online. It's only in the Alpha testing stage at the moment and isn't yet a 'minimally viable product' (which, by the way, Goblinworks has stated is their goal before they move on to Beta)...but, their idea of 'minimally viable product' is WAY different than PGI's. The absolutely refuse to release the game until certain criteria are met....AND they are actively (I can't stress this enough..ACTIVELY) seeking out bug reports and feedback from those allowed to participate in the Alpha testing. Also, they're completely transparent about where they're at, where they're going, what needs to be done..etc.

When I compare what they're doing to what PGI did during Open Beta....all I can do is shake my head and sigh.

SI The Joker, on 01 October 2014 - 05:25 AM, said:

Now with regard to new players - I've said this elsewhere... new players should start at a ZERO rating and work their way UP from there. I see no reason to have new players in matches with anyone who has been playing for more than a few months. Ramping players up to their appropriate skill level is a much better experience (in my opinion) than tossing them into the "average" pile from the start.

Absolutely. This. Or, even better, get rid of this whole "Elo" thing in the first place. Elo is a system designed to rate individual players in a contest with a fairly stable playerbase. MW:O's playerbase is anything but stable....not to mention any adjustment to your individual Elo score is dependent on the performance of the team you were on. That, by itself, makes it a broken system. Add to that the fact that once you've finished your first 25 matches, your score is artifically inflated to put you in the mid-range.

An easier system, and far more viable, would be to simply go to a "level" type system based on GXP earned. Why GXP? Because your GXP is a fraction of the XP you've earned playing every mech you've ever played. If, for example and to keep it simple, you got 1 level for every 100,000 GXP you've earned, the matchmaker could easily be adjusted to search between a range of "levels" to fill matches.....newer players would be playing with people that are closer to their skill level, experienced ones the same.

Sure, people will make Alt accounts so they can troll the new players but.....they already do that anyway.

Edited by Willard Phule, 01 October 2014 - 05:53 AM.

[Sergeant Random]

Willard Phule, on 01 October 2014 - 05:37 AM, said:

what you just said

eloquently put! i was actually playing with words - i was recommending that a noob mech (a new mech, unbasiced) with missile hardpoints can be skilled fast using lrms. and PGI setup the rewards that way

[Wolfways]

It's not new players, it's bad players.
The majority of players i see in the solo queue suck so much...and i still can't figure out why they're always on my team...

[Angel of Annihilation]

The problem is that the changes they make for balancing typically break 3 things for every 1 thing they fix.

Take the JJ nerf. Sure it reduced poptarting but there are so many mechs that NEED to be able to use Jump Jets in a TACTICAL (while in Combat) manner, not just as a mobility tool, in order to be effective. The solution to poptarting wasn't nerfing JJs.

Another is the huge increases in heat on Clan Laser weapons. Sure it solved some of the issues with the Timber Wolf and Dire Wolf being able to boat obscene amounts of ER ML and SLs. However it cripple the Nova and will make it very difficult for mechs like the Ice Ferret and Mist Lynx to be competitive. Also since those weapons are in such widespread use and changing the heat on one weapon effects all weapons on a mech, maybe legitimate builds were broken. Again the change broke more things that it fixed.

Ghost heat. Same thing. Some mechs were specifically designed to use 3 PPCs for example, yet ghost heat renders these designs unusable. One thing fixed, 12 broken.

Fixing the JJs in mechs like the Timber Wolf and Kit Fox is yet another. The change is suppose to make it fair for all Clan mechs but the issue isn't fairness, it is that the Nova and Summoner aren't competitive and many players are wanting to remove the neutered and near useless jump jets to offset the weaknesses of these two mechs. Players want these mechs fixed, not the Kit Fox and Timber Wolf broken. Yet again, they break something and in this case, the change fixed nothing as well.

This is the problem.

[Xarian]

Balancing is important. And believe it or not, changes which make the game easier for "noobs" often make the game better for everyone.

[Spurowny]

Willard Phule, on 01 October 2014 - 04:31 AM, said:

So...and this is what puzzles me the most....if every "adjustment" Paul makes with his Football bat designed to make it easier for new players....why are they thrown into general population in the solo queue as opposed to being segregated long enough for them to actually learn some of these easier tactics?

So... What puzzles me the most... is what the hell is a Football bat?

[Willard Phule]

Spurowny, on 01 October 2014 - 07:00 AM, said:

So... What puzzles me the most... is what the hell is a Football bat?

Exactly as it sounds. Something stupid, irrelevant and pointless. Much like Paul's "nerf bat."