9 replies to this topic

[RogueLdr]

"Omnimech Fixed Jump Jet Slots
The current rule for Omnimechs is that slots are set by the Prime variant. For instance, the Prime variant of the Summoner has 5 fixed JJs and this rule is dictated across each variant. We are expanding this rule slightly when it comes specifically to Jump Jets so that the rule is determined by the variant instead. What this can mean, for example, is that the Timber Wolf S variant will come with 5 fixed JJs. This also means that if you are using (again, for example) the Timber Wolf Prime and decide to equip the RT omnipod of the Timber Wolf S you will have 2 fixed Jump Jets and another 2 if you equip the LT omnipod."

No no no no no, PLEASE don't do this.

Clans mechs are already so restrictive. We can't pick our engine, we're forced to take HS we don't need... please don't add JJ to this list.

I can't tell you how many Cmechs i have with those damn fixed HS. You end up with a build that has a 1.4+ heat rating that it doesn't need, but is almost cripplingly short on ammo.

In your Timberwolf example, if you force me to take all those JJ, it would literally break every one of my builds.

What the hell does a LRM boat (which the S variant is great for) need 5 jumpjets? Almost anything would be a better use of that tonnage.

Please don't do this.

[FupDup]

The real solution would have been to make JJs work such that taking all 5+ of them would be drastically more effective than just 1 or 2. But instead, we're going to play mechlab police and make everybody use hoverjets instead of making jets well designed.

[Metus regem]

RogueLdr, on 02 October 2014 - 09:27 AM, said:

"Omnimech Fixed Jump Jet Slots
The current rule for Omnimechs is that slots are set by the Prime variant. For instance, the Prime variant of the Summoner has 5 fixed JJs and this rule is dictated across each variant. We are expanding this rule slightly when it comes specifically to Jump Jets so that the rule is determined by the variant instead. What this can mean, for example, is that the Timber Wolf S variant will come with 5 fixed JJs. This also means that if you are using (again, for example) the Timber Wolf Prime and decide to equip the RT omnipod of the Timber Wolf S you will have 2 fixed Jump Jets and another 2 if you equip the LT omnipod."

No no no no no, PLEASE don't do this.

Clans mechs are already so restrictive. We can't pick our engine, we're forced to take HS we don't need... please don't add JJ to this list.

I can't tell you how many Cmechs i have with those damn fixed HS. You end up with a build that has a 1.4+ heat rating that it doesn't need, but is almost cripplingly short on ammo.

In your Timberwolf example, if you force me to take all those JJ, it would literally break every one of my builds.

What the hell does a LRM boat (which the S variant is great for) need 5 jumpjets? Almost anything would be a better use of that tonnage.

Please don't do this.

I know your pain, I use S torso pods to make an era correct TBR-D... come this, I won't be able to too any more.

[WonderSparks]

The more I think about it, the more I tend to agree with these counter-points.
I mean, yes I can adapt to having those JJ fixed, but it does not seem necessary to me. (Then again, I seem to be in a less-competitive world of MWO than others, so the Timber Wolf does not feel like it needs any "nerfs")

Because, face it, since when were Jump Jets made into fixed equipment after being equipped to an Omni?

[Metus regem]

Don't get me wrong, on one had I understand it, on the other I hate it.

One side of me thinks, all omni-pods should have fixed weapons and equipment, but give the clan pilots the option to change pods, based on the mission profile. Running skirmish on Terra Therma, take prime or C pods, running an assualt Canyon take Prime or S pods...

This hand this would reduce the amount of customization even further on the clan mechs, but I think would be a better dynamic for them. As well as fit the lore and them of the Clans using set load outs depending on the mission profile.

The flip side of that is, I think IS battle mechs are way too customizable, and should need a balanced load out to deal with any map they get.

[Malcolm Vordermark]

Quote

The current rule for Omnimechs is that slots are set by the Prime variant. For instance, the Prime variant of the Summoner has 5 fixed JJs and this rule is dictated across each variant.

I just want to point out that this is slightly inaccurate. Fixed equipment determined by the base chassis. All configurations are built using the base, as such fixed equipment will be found across all configurations. The S cannot have fixed jump jets because they are not found on any other configuration.

Fixed equipment doesn't meant that all equipment on a mech is fixed, or that jump jets are always fixed to the mech. It means that particular items are part of the structure and can't be removed the only thing that determines that is what the lore says.

It is an interesting idea but they're breaking the construction rules and it really changes very little. The LRM boating Timber Wolfs will now have jump jets. Most of the other popular builds included something like 2 jump jets anyways and it will still be possible to make those builds. You'll have to move a few things around and at worst maybe drop an ER ML.

Edited by Rouken, 02 October 2014 - 09:44 AM.

[Redshift2k5]

It only really hurts the Timberwolf, I don't think it will give me any trouble on my Kit Fox builds.

Boo hoo, the best chassis in the game may have to use hardwired fixed location/number of jump jets in order to put JJ on what is already the best chassis in the game. Some builds may have to losr a whole ton or two while others may have to simply do with the JJ being in a slightly different location. while the Summoner is still stuck with 5 whole JJ and no Endo. Big whoop.

Edited by Redshift2k5, 02 October 2014 - 10:05 AM.

[El Bandito]

FupDup, on 02 October 2014 - 09:32 AM, said:

The real solution would have been to make JJs work such that taking all 5+ of them would be drastically more effective than just 1 or 2. But instead, we're going to play mechlab police and make everybody use hoverjets instead of making jets well designed.

Russ clearly said he will buff higher number of JJs mounted on a mech with more thrust and turn rate.

Quote

Jump Jet Thrust
Since the adjustment of JJ thrust, along with fall damage, we have seen 'pop-tarting' gameplay decrease to a much more acceptable level. I think everyone agrees this is a positive step for MWO. However, I think certain 'Mechs, well-represented by the Summoner (who takes 5+ JJ into combat), are not receiving enough of a benefit for taking them into battle. I am going to be making a small adjustment to allow the thrust to increase a little bit faster as you add more JJs. This will make those 'Mechs feel a little more mobile and give more advantage to 'Mechs that dedicate more space to JJ.

ETA: Oct 21st patch.

Jump Jet Turn Rate
While analyzing why certain players still enter combat with as little as 1-2 JJs, we discovered (or at least reminded ourselves) that the JJ turn rate while in the air was the same whether you had 1 JJ or 5+. This is obviously a huge disadvantage for 'Mechs such as the Summoner that have 5 fixed JJs for 5 tons. We are making an adjustment so that the turn rate while in the air while using JJs will increase with the number of JJs equipped. This means that a 'Mech such as the Summoner will have a more appropriate advantage in a brawling situation over a non-jump capable Heavy, or one utilizing far less JJs. This, in combination with the small change in JJ thrust, should mean 'Mechs such as the Summoner will have a more appropriate advantage for its tonnage spent on JJs.

My Dragon Slayer is going to be a beast again with such JJ changes (used to mount 4 JJs at least), combined with the removal of the Victor mobility nerfs.

Edited by El Bandito, 02 October 2014 - 10:37 AM.

[FupDup]

El Bandito, on 02 October 2014 - 10:32 AM, said:

Russ clearly said he will buff higher number of JJs mounted on a mech with more thrust and turn rate.

My Dragon Slayer is going to be a beast again with such JJ changes (used to mount 4 JJs at least), combined with the removal of the Victor mobility nerfs.

Later in the thread, somebody asked Russ about it and he replied that 5 JJs would be the new "baseline" and any number of jets under 5 would be weaker than they currently are. I'm too lazy to dig it up though.

EDIT: Found it:

Russ Bullock, on 30 September 2014 - 09:00 AM, said:

I haven't tuned numbers yet but in the case of 1 JJ I would expect slower turning in the air, after all if a 2 JJ TW can spin in the air and brawl as fast as a 5 JJ Summoner that wouldn't be right.

Perhaps expect the Summoner current in air turn rate and it slows from there with less JJ - I am not positive yet

So it's not 100% confirmed, but seems likely enough.

Edited by FupDup, 02 October 2014 - 11:05 AM.

[El Bandito]

FupDup, on 02 October 2014 - 11:01 AM, said:

Later in the thread, somebody asked Russ about it and he replied that 5 JJs would be the new "baseline" and any number of jets under 5 would be weaker than they currently are. I'm too lazy to dig it up though.

EDIT: Found it:

So it's not 100% confirmed, but seems likely enough.

Yeah I was about to post that quote. As well as not being set in stone, it only talked about the turn rate. I am more interested in the thrust, cause of the whole hover jet thing we got ATM.

Edited by El Bandito, 02 October 2014 - 11:16 AM.