11 replies to this topic

[ManDaisy]

Ghost heat:

Replaced by:
1) movement penalties for heat
2) mech heat damage above 80% instead of 100%
3) Cone of fire increase with heat value increase (at higher heat less accurate fire bigger cone)(old ac2 viable without ghost heat, gets less accurate)
4) Movement penality , slowdowned when firing large ballistics
http://mwomercs.com/...e-bore-weapons/
5) Cone of fire increase while moving for ballistics, bigger caliber effected more, 0 -30% speed penalty reduction --. -31% to 66%(walking) penalty reduction -, 66%+ (running) penalty+addition,
6) Cone of fire increase for firing more big weapons at the same time, multiple ppc, ac 10, ac 20, gauss, stack addition in cone penalty if fired all at once. (fixes dire whale, ac20 boom jagers)

7) Radar Hud mini map/ fuzz and distortion, with increasing heat
8) Increased lock on time based on heat.

All these are lore translated mechanics that are currently missing from the game.
Basically at zero heat you would have instant convergence and pinpoint. This would get less accurate as you mech either raises in heat/ moves faster for large weapons/ or fires large weapons at the same time. At long distances a little variation would make a big diffence, This would be less of an effect at short range, leading to more brawling and less pinpoint death across the board. People to be more accurate can either wait to cool down, or slow their mech speed. This would aslo increase time to kill and add more skill then just twitcher skill.


// you can skip this//
*** reduce server load, only 6(objects of a function) fire cone (draw lines?) calculations per mech.

Each weapon in a cone behaves as one and converges to the same point. (nova is useful at high heat?)

Cone list: (the function)

(the objects)
Left arm,
right arm,
left torso,
right torso,
center torso,
head.

(all weapons fired in same instance on one location) =
true aim location, x,y,z(server calc) + (heat modified random x,y,z)(server calc) = shot.location

All weapons on the left arm will converge to the same place. However, left arm and Right arm weapons may not converge due to randomness at high heat. Another example would be left arm and left torso not converging to the same place either due to cone randomness.

1 cone of fire per mech. 6 instanced of calculations based on located within cone of fire... unless chain or volley fire...

Edited by ManDaisy, 03 October 2014 - 10:51 AM.

[ImperialKnight]

hey! welcome to the club of people who post useful alternatives to ghost heat/PPFLD but will never get implemented

[Wintersdark]

knightsljx, on 02 October 2014 - 09:49 PM, said:

hey! welcome to the club of people who post useful alternatives to ghost heat/PPFLD but will never get implemented

It's a Coming Of Age right on these forums.

Some people do it sooner, some later, but sooner or later everyone does it.

[Asmudius Heng]

Any randomness will never come into MWO too many people hate it and so do the devs from comments they have made.

It doesnt matter to them that minimizing the spread is a skill in itself, as soon as you miss a shot perfectly lined up because of your cone of fire someone will exclaim they were robbed of a kill, a win, more cbill etc.

I have always been in favour of such a system but its just not going to happen unless it was here day 1 and people just accepted thats the way it is

[ManDaisy]

Well as lost as the post counter and replies gets high enough, maybe they will reconsider

[Wintersdark]

Asmudius Heng, on 02 October 2014 - 10:02 PM, said:

Any randomness will never come into MWO too many people hate it and so do the devs from comments they have made.

It doesnt matter to them that minimizing the spread is a skill in itself, as soon as you miss a shot perfectly lined up because of your cone of fire someone will exclaim they were robbed of a kill, a win, more cbill etc.

I have always been in favour of such a system but its just not going to happen unless it was here day 1 and people just accepted thats the way it is

Yeah. Sad, though, because CoF implemented in this way (zero COF at low speed/low heat, increasing CoF to a reasonable level at high speed and/or high heat) increases the skill cap because it's up to the player whether he's going to risk the inaccuracy or adjust speed/heat to fire more accurately. Unlike so many other systems, it's very easy to communicate to the players and in fact is a system that virtually every single FPS game in the last decade uses - just have the targeting reticle grow to indicate spread amount.

Alas.

[ManDaisy]

Visually like that its very easy to understand. they can even predict the level of inaccuracy based on how big the circle is. This feature could also be removed after 100 games to promote true skill.

Edited by ManDaisy, 02 October 2014 - 10:11 PM.

[Asmudius Heng]

Wintersdark, on 02 October 2014 - 10:07 PM, said:

Yeah. Sad, though, because CoF implemented in this way (zero COF at low speed/low heat, increasing CoF to a reasonable level at high speed and/or high heat) increases the skill cap because it's up to the player whether he's going to risk the inaccuracy or adjust speed/heat to fire more accurately. Unlike so many other systems, it's very easy to communicate to the players and in fact is a system that virtually every single FPS game in the last decade uses - just have the targeting reticle grow to indicate spread amount.

Alas.

I admit though i do understand the other side of the equation - it does suck to miss even when you did your very best to minimise the impact of a CoF.

However certain mechanics help damage spread such as burn time, burst fire, missile spread, lead time. These are not bad mechanics that do require skill to overcome - but not all of these mechanics are created equal either.

The game can get to a better level of addressing the pinpoint nature through this but PGI does not seem to touch these either since they changed gauss for instance.

[ManDaisy]

I too see where missing a shot could be frustrating but one of the biggest reasons for heat based cone of fire is to increase time to kill. Not only will things be less pin point, but damage and safety windows will be greater. You will have more time to potentially manuever and potentially (dodge damage) , when fire is spaced out longer to be more accurate.

Also, lower weapon caliber mechs, spider v with 2 mediums lasers, will be able to stay accurate and harass longer due to the nature of their low heat growth.

The question wont amount to how much damage I can pack into a single blow anymore, but how can I balanced my heat sinks and weapons amount to maintain high accuracy.

Streak and Lrms missiles will gain a secondary use for high heat mechs as well. Even non boated single Autocannon use, will be much more common.

The flamer, will no longer be underpowered. Lbx autocannons will actually be desirable.

Edited by ManDaisy, 02 October 2014 - 10:23 PM.

[Wintersdark]

Asmudius Heng, on 02 October 2014 - 10:13 PM, said:

I admit though i do understand the other side of the equation - it does suck to miss even when you did your very best to minimise the impact of a CoF.

If there is zero CoF generation from 0-70% speed and 0-70% heat, as rough examples(don't nitpick numbers!), then up to say 0 to +4 degrees CoF from 70% to 100% in both, you can get 100% pinpoint accuracy simply by slowing down to 70% speed (which conveniently there is a keybind for) and waiting till you cool a bit.

Of course, slowing down makes you a bit more vulnerable, and waiting to cool down directly increases TTK. Or, you can simply fire and accept the inaccuracy. Keep in mind, even at full speed and 100% heat (pretty extreme!) you're looking at 8 degrees CoF. That's crippling at long range, yes, but it's trivial at close range, so lights have nothing to fear.

And it's entirely avoidable, if you choose to do so. You never miss a shot due to CoF unless you choose to accept that risk; there is always the option to fire accurately.

If you didn't use speed, I'd stretch the heat to CoF scaling from 0-8 degrees from say 50% heat up, so there's some CoF over a wider range of heat, but still capped at whatever is chosen as a good max - 8 in my examples, but as low as 5 would probably be good.

I prefer speed AND heat, though, because while heat is very important for this (we badly need some reason to not run redlined) having multiple factors that individually matter less makes it a little easier to exert some control over the situation, even if you can't completely control it.

[ManDaisy]

Yes yes, brawling would be much more due to the negation of cone of fire the closer you are! You are more likely to hit something then miss entirely.

Edited by ManDaisy, 02 October 2014 - 10:33 PM.

[Asmudius Heng]

Oh i agree wintersdark. I was simply saying i can see how someone on the other side of the fence might see the issue and how quickly even civil discussions can devolve into the usual 'RNG kills skill' argument

If controlling accuracy was a machine management and piloting management skill not just a aiming skill i would find it more interesting for sure.

It would also allow some weapons to be great infights like the LBX and SRMs where it already has inherent inaccuracy so its a spray and pray weapon, a snap shooting weapon in a knife fight allowing you to jink and dodge and overheat while still pouring out damage - though obviously spread damage.