439 replies to this topic

[Hammerhai]

I see the L2P/GGclose crowd is out in force,

1. We cannot all be top tier.

2. Best personal score in a JNR 7F this weekend with 350+ dmg and 7 or so assists was 45-ish. And I am doing bloody well by my standards. Competitive players from my unit describe such scores as "solid". I asked, because I was very discouraged. I don't LIKE being lower average, guys. I just am. Stone cold fact, at 54 with a 300 ping. I am not going to game with a bedpan under my seat to get ==maxgames, either. And I am unhappy at the shafting the meds and lights got.

And it bears repeating that I as an avg Joe am miffed.
Having said that, the fact that a lot of top tier pilots were dropping solo was liked by the tourney players in our unit, who it seems enjoyed that. To which, as before, I add my "meh" reaction.

And then the question remains: The flow of cash which you injected into the top tier bank accounts is hopefully not going to be drained at my cost, PGI? Because that is what drew these pilots. Most of em could not be bothered with these tourneys otherwise.

Let me see here:
I fought for decent joystick support. I gave up.
I enjoy Lights. I am giving up on that.
What next to give up on, I wonder, as the anger grows.

[Danghen Woolf]

Lily from animove, on 06 October 2014 - 07:26 AM, said:

I am not a tryhard, but just a passionate gamer in various games, and yet I hardly understand how people never achieve this. In my epic 3 man unit, we have two newbies as well and no matter what tips I give them they still seem not to make the regular games on a proper level. I hardly can understand why. And on top of that they are also like that in the other game we play. So I wonder what it is. generally a lack of situational awereness, relfexes, or simply mind speed to make a proper and fast decision? I would like to see them recoding their gameplay to analyse what they do wrong. that porbably may help.

I play for fun, I think that that should also be rewarded (achievements helped) along with competitive play. Watching the numbers from this weekend of 2-5% lights and mediums really made it difficult to play my mechs in any meaningful way. Maybe something that would help is a point goal per class, say 130 for assault, 115 for heavy, 100 for medium, and 90 for light. That would take into account the capabilities of each chassis as well as creating a more evenly rounded environment. Another way to factor would be that instead of a single C-Bill limit per player a per class C-Bill limit. 2.25 million per class for a total of 10-million per player. I would have even piloted my heavies and assaults if there was a meaningful reason to do so other than because it was the only way to meet the point requirement.

As far as you helping the new guys, that is great. I see too many people trashing people in game that cannot seem to get things going. I was using my Uller C this weekend and on Mining Colony and was killed before being able to damage anyone (really strange how not a single LRM from 5 volleys hit anything other than environment). I was then derided as being a newb and L2P among other things. Sometimes scrap happens.

[DarthPeanut]

Need one more 130+ score win for my 10m cbills, at 9.5m currently.

Placed on the heavy IS leaderboard (high as 9th yesterday morning but it is sliding, 15th currently) in the process but I doubt it will hold since I do not have much time to play today.

[Alienized]

playing for fun doesnt mean that you cant give your best.
im quite sure we all play for fun, some have a talent for games like this some not.
as long as you enjoy it it should be all good. trying to get better or learn how to play more tactical
should not be out of reach, even for players that barely play or whatever. it makes the game more enjoyable for everyone.

[Mercer Skye]

So, finally hit my 10 million cbill mark, and now that I've had some time to cool my jets, I think I'm seeing what the big frustration is;

You have what amounts to a 'participation ribbon' reward (the cbills), but the problem is that the skillcap to earn it is placed just shy of the skillcap needed to make decent progress on the leaderboard (As in; Breaking into the top 100 at least).

So there's a lot of frustration among the players doing the challenge for giggles or 'just seeing where they fit in' because the point requirement for the 'hey, thanks for providing targets for the pros' reward is just a bit too high.

Looking a bit harder at my teammates now that I'm not stressing it, I'm seeing a LOT of people hitting around 115 match points, and a few people that I've run into more than once getting somewhere about 125-129. All respectable scores, and sometimes the best scores on the team, yet they're not going to get that pat on the back reward.

That, and tying it to wins....for a solo challenge. Not only are they expecting you to carry hard, they're expecting you to be able to herd cats (In those cases where you draw the short straw and get the shortbus teammates).

[3xnihilo]

The only issue I really have is that it takes about the same amount of effort/level of play for me to score 130 in a heavy as it does to score 120ish in a light. So it is only natural I would take a heavy over a light. Apparently a lot of people feel this way because it is reflected in the que. If there were more incentive to take lights/mediums (I am well aware that 130 is not unattainable in these mechs but it is easier or perceived as easier to do it in assaults or heavies) the mm pool would be more evenly distributed and you wouldn't have as many of the bad matches so many people are complaining about. (ie. MM can't make 3/3/3/3 with matching elo because of lack of lights, MM drops elo restrictions in favor of 3/3/3/3 3xnihilo ends up in a match with high elo players and gets stomped. High elo players are angry cuz I am terrible and ruined their game)

[Grayson Sortek]

Hammerhai, on 06 October 2014 - 07:44 AM, said:

I see the L2P/GGclose crowd is out in force,

1. We cannot all be top tier.

2. Best personal score in a JNR 7F this weekend with 350+ dmg and 7 or so assists was 45-ish. And I am doing bloody well by my standards. Competitive players from my unit describe such scores as "solid". I asked, because I was very discouraged. I don't LIKE being lower average, guys. I just am. Stone cold fact, at 54 with a 300 ping. I am not going to game with a bedpan under my seat to get ==maxgames, either. And I am unhappy at the shafting the meds and lights got.

And it bears repeating that I as an avg Joe am miffed.
Having said that, the fact that a lot of top tier pilots were dropping solo was liked by the tourney players in our unit, who it seems enjoyed that. To which, as before, I add my "meh" reaction.

And then the question remains: The flow of cash which you injected into the top tier bank accounts is hopefully not going to be drained at my cost, PGI? Because that is what drew these pilots. Most of em could not be bothered with these tourneys otherwise.

Let me see here:
I fought for decent joystick support. I gave up.
I enjoy Lights. I am giving up on that.
What next to give up on, I wonder, as the anger grows.

Danghen Woolf, on 06 October 2014 - 07:44 AM, said:

I play for fun, I think that that should also be rewarded (achievements helped) along with competitive play. Watching the numbers from this weekend of 2-5% lights and mediums really made it difficult to play my mechs in any meaningful way. Maybe something that would help is a point goal per class, say 130 for assault, 115 for heavy, 100 for medium, and 90 for light. That would take into account the capabilities of each chassis as well as creating a more evenly rounded environment. Another way to factor would be that instead of a single C-Bill limit per player a per class C-Bill limit. 2.25 million per class for a total of 10-million per player. I would have even piloted my heavies and assaults if there was a meaningful reason to do so other than because it was the only way to meet the point requirement.

As far as you helping the new guys, that is great. I see too many people trashing people in game that cannot seem to get things going. I was using my Uller C this weekend and on Mining Colony and was killed before being able to damage anyone (really strange how not a single LRM from 5 volleys hit anything other than environment). I was then derided as being a newb and L2P among other things. Sometimes scrap happens.

Mercer Skye, on 06 October 2014 - 08:27 AM, said:

So, finally hit my 10 million cbill mark, and now that I've had some time to cool my jets, I think I'm seeing what the big frustration is;

You have what amounts to a 'participation ribbon' reward (the cbills), but the problem is that the skillcap to earn it is placed just shy of the skillcap needed to make decent progress on the leaderboard (As in; Breaking into the top 100 at least).

So there's a lot of frustration among the players doing the challenge for giggles or 'just seeing where they fit in' because the point requirement for the 'hey, thanks for providing targets for the pros' reward is just a bit too high.

Looking a bit harder at my teammates now that I'm not stressing it, I'm seeing a LOT of people hitting around 115 match points, and a few people that I've run into more than once getting somewhere about 125-129. All respectable scores, and sometimes the best scores on the team, yet they're not going to get that pat on the back reward.

That, and tying it to wins....for a solo challenge. Not only are they expecting you to carry hard, they're expecting you to be able to herd cats (In those cases where you draw the short straw and get the shortbus teammates).

I'm actually really happy that I decided not to play this weekend.

I've been playing MW since the very first one, and yes I am a gamer that enjoys a ton of games so it's not because I'm a newb. At 28 I have so many things going on in my life; from working a standard 9-5 job, to a budding career as an archaeologist, to the foundation of a game development studio with my friends. Basically, I'm just not going to spend a ridiculous amount of hours trying to get to top tier levels of elo. I stopped doing that kind of crap after ranking 4th in an international CS tourney when I was 16. I also prefer not to be cannon fodder for the "pros" that play this particular game all the time. Nope, this time I decided to wait it out and return to one of the games I love after all the kiddies have had their fun blowing people up and pretending like they've accomplished something. I feel ya Hammerhai.
On a side note: I decided to check out Wasteland 2 this weekend since I grew up on the original Fallout games, and let me just say that it did not disappoint.

I like Danghen's idea of a tiered reward system, especially to help the matchmaker stats since they are that skewed. When I see stats like that, then I feel pretty discouraged. I know PGI needs to gather some data, but after the challenges they have had so far I'm kind of surprised that they couldn't have already predicted this. Maybe they are simply trying to compare Clan vs IS, and it doesn't matter if it's mostly Heavy and Assault'Mechs? I don't really know what the numbers are telling them, but I would like to hear/read about it.

Thank you for the field report and perspective Mercer. It's nice to hear about peoples observations first hand, especially when they can relax enough to look at what is going on around them.

Well PGI, I have been liking the challenges that foster team work so far... but I have no idea what prompted you to do this? Maybe you are attempting to appeal to multiple demographics? To the casual MW fans that have been around for a few decades, to the "hardcore" teenagers who play games fanatically like competitive sports? Fair is fair I suppose, and I'm fine with them having their day(s), so long as there is a balance and it doesn't completely shift to a "pro" game.

[Alienized]

grayson, team competitions will be even worse, trust me.

[Mercer Skye]

Grayson Sortek, on 06 October 2014 - 08:55 AM, said:

I'm actually really happy that I decided not to play this weekend.

I've been playing MW since the very first one, and yes I am a gamer that enjoys a ton of games so it's not because I'm a newb. At 28 I have so many things going on in my life; from working a standard 9-5 job, to a budding career as an archaeologist, to the foundation of a game development studio with my friends. Basically, I'm just not going to spend a ridiculous amount of hours trying to get to top tier levels of elo. I stopped doing that kind of crap after ranking 4th in an international CS tourney when I was 16. I also prefer not to be cannon fodder for the "pros" that play this particular game all the time. Nope, this time I decided to wait it out and return to one of the games I love after all the kiddies have had their fun blowing people up and pretending like they've accomplished something. I feel ya Hammerhai.
On a side note: I decided to check out Wasteland 2 this weekend since I grew up on the original Fallout games, and let me just say that it did not disappoint.

I like Danghen's idea of a tiered reward system, especially to help the matchmaker stats since they are that skewed. When I see stats like that, then I feel pretty discouraged. I know PGI needs to gather some data, but after the challenges they have had so far I'm kind of surprised that they couldn't have already predicted this. Maybe they are simply trying to compare Clan vs IS, and it doesn't matter if it's mostly Heavy and Assault'Mechs? I don't really know what the numbers are telling them, but I would like to hear/read about it.

Thank you for the field report and perspective Mercer. It's nice to hear about peoples observations first hand, especially when they can relax enough to look at what is going on around them.

Well PGI, I have been liking the challenges that foster team work so far... but I have no idea what prompted you to do this? Maybe you are attempting to appeal to multiple demographics? To the casual MW fans that have been around for a few decades, to the "hardcore" teenagers who play games fanatically like competitive sports? Fair is fair I suppose, and I'm fine with them having their day(s), so long as there is a balance and it doesn't completely shift to a "pro" game.

Had to like simply for playing Wasteland 2. Bought into the beta, and haven't regretted it in the least. Started my first 'official' playthrough just before this tourney started. Now that its winding down, I'll probably spend my recovery time playing that.

More on topic, I just hope that some cooler headed observation gets taken under consideration. Mine or anyone else's. I know the tournaments can't all be 'totally inclusive,' but I reckon they can get close.

The only thing that has disappointed me is my inability to stick to a weight class, I'll be finishing this off with top 100 placements in IS lights, mediums, and heavies, and I'm sure if I'd dedicated at least one of those weights to another, I might have seen my name on the leaderboards. But people with more time/skill/luck than I do can have it, I just can't grind any more or any harder. I tend to prefer more support oriented 'mechs, and while it's fun to just whip out the Twin Gauss Firebrand here and there, or the LRM Griffins, or any other more combat oriented 'mech....support was just not really the name of the game this time around (Could rack up assists, sure, but pitiful or semi-pitiful damage weighs those match scores down)

Edited by Mercer Skye, 06 October 2014 - 09:14 AM.

[Lily from animove]

Danghen Woolf, on 06 October 2014 - 07:44 AM, said:

I play for fun, I think that that should also be rewarded (achievements helped) along with competitive play. Watching the numbers from this weekend of 2-5% lights and mediums really made it difficult to play my mechs in any meaningful way. Maybe something that would help is a point goal per class, say 130 for assault, 115 for heavy, 100 for medium, and 90 for light. That would take into account the capabilities of each chassis as well as creating a more evenly rounded environment. Another way to factor would be that instead of a single C-Bill limit per player a per class C-Bill limit. 2.25 million per class for a total of 10-million per player. I would have even piloted my heavies and assaults if there was a meaningful reason to do so other than because it was the only way to meet the point requirement.

As far as you helping the new guys, that is great. I see too many people trashing people in game that cannot seem to get things going. I was using my Uller C this weekend and on Mining Colony and was killed before being able to damage anyone (really strange how not a single LRM from 5 volleys hit anything other than environment). I was then derided as being a newb and L2P among other things. Sometimes scrap happens.

the game without an event is already normal and FUN mode. all other events were more or less fun events, because a single assist already gave you event poins. So whats wrong with this event which is this time a bit more competitive? sure some may not get the rewards, but from all the clan arrival events this is the first time a real competitive event all other were already fun events. And so its fine I guess.

I am in a similar situation as grayson, I am now 30 family and stuff no competitive gaming anymore, which was different as a teenager. Now I play for fun and strangley in MWO this can still make you quite a good player.So when people like you are here since phoenix pack, well something else is not right with you. You are clearly doing something wrong. But thats the moment where it is hard to help newbies or not so goood players, because we would need video footage of their gameplay to tell them what went wrong.

Edited by Lily from animove, 06 October 2014 - 09:19 AM.

[Danghen Woolf]

Lily from animove, on 06 October 2014 - 09:12 AM, said:

the game without an event is already normal and FUN mode. all other events were more or less fun events, because a single assist already gave you event poins. So whats wrong with this event which is this time a bit more competitive? sure some may not get the rewards, but from all the clan arrival events this is the first time a real competitive event all other were already fun events. And so its fine I guess.

I am in a similar situation as grayson, I am now 30 family and stuff no competitive gaming anymore, which was different as a teenager. Now I play for fun and strangley in MWO this can still make you quite a good player.So when people like you are here since phoenix pack, well something else is not right with you. You are clearly doing something wrong. But thats the moment where it is hard to help newbies or not so goood players, because we would need video footage of their gameplay to tell them what went wrong.

I am of the same age group with responsibilities as well. As far as something being wrong with me I would be happy to discuss my playstyle in another forum if you have feedback. All I was saying is that for a player with my skill level it was hard to justify logging in to be trampled on by the super-competitive players in the heaviest weight classes with mechs in the ranges I enjoy (light and medium). To see number of less than 10% combined for two weight classes it shows that the numbers were definately skewed in the favor of those heavier classes. I was proposing a way to even those numbers out for the next event. I enjoy MWO and have for a while, I do not mind losing, I do not mind getting blown up by LRMs before I even see an enemy. I am just identifying ways that things may be fine tuned.

[ExoForce]

Mercer Skye, on 06 October 2014 - 08:27 AM, said:

Looking a bit harder at my teammates now that I'm not stressing it, I'm seeing a LOT of people hitting around 115 match points, and a few people that I've run into more than once getting somewhere about 125-129. All respectable scores, and sometimes the best scores on the team, yet they're not going to get that pat on the back reward.

Many times my scores was around 125. Argh!!! Anyway, no time to play anymore so 8.000.000 Cbills reward is O.K. + 13.000.000 earned during the chalenge is fine. If PGI could divide damage by 10 instead of 15 it will be (almost) perfect. It forces You to do teamplay and also to be more agressive. It was a nice challenge, slightly to hard (to much time consuming). Probably devastating for new / unexpirienced players.

Just one example - Daishi 4 kills 5 assist 254 damage , loss - wasted effort

Edited by ExoForce, 06 October 2014 - 10:39 AM.

[TamerSA]

Well as a noob player (not at all new mind you, just suck ) and someone who has little time to play due to work and life, I didn't mind the challenge.

As with all of them I opt in without expecting much. The leader boards were way out of my league as per usual, but I like to see where I placed afterwards.

The Cbill bonus is hard, as most people stated. For me it had to be those killer games where I own, which is the exception and not the rule. It did however feel that much more rewarding when I got a qualifying match. I don't bother comparing with people who made the 10 mill easily, for me it was a personal achievement and it wouldn't have meant much more than giving it to me for free (which is also nice sometimes) if I didn't feel like I really earned the handful of games that actually qualified.

But that's just me

Edited by TamerSA, 06 October 2014 - 11:05 AM.

[MadPanda]

Would need another day. Not enough time to play. I will admit defeat at 6m .

[Shibas]

The 130+ was attainable in any chassis (some more so by assists and some by kills), It's mostly based on kills/assist with damage as a supplement. Unfortunately most people see damage as the biggest point maker, it is not. You need 150 damage to make up for an assist or to make up the difference between an assist and a kill. It's much easier to hit an enemy for the assist or get the kill shot than try to milk a mech for 150 damage. A few people I talked to found it much easier to do it in lights because it's easier to run around hitting people for the assists.

The C-bill reward was a nice incentive to keep playing; hard enough to work for it but certainly not too difficult that anyone couldn't achieve it. It was a base of 2 kills, 5 assist, 600 damage, with substituting 1 assist for 150 damage or 1 kill for 300 damage. It was hard sure, I had a lot of ~120 matches, but certainly attainable.

[Tvrdoglavi]

I've played all my matches in a medium mech and have 18 valid wins. With that, I'm at 133rd place on the IS medium leader board. That makes me think that this was achievable for a lot of people. It's not like you have to get all 10 million CB. If it was made too easy, they might as wall just give it up for any match regardless of score.
But I do agree with a lot of people who point out that the score should be adjusted based on weight class. It would make the tournaments more fun and balanced.
It would also be nice if your score would be displayed at the end of each match. How do you all calculate your scores? I can't figure out the team damage part.

[Ripper X]

This event was extremely painful and not fun for all of the reasons stated before.

[101011]

Why did this carry over into Monday? Everyone (hopefully) has work/school, which takes a large chunk of playtime. Really, it would have been much better to make this a true weekend event.

[ExoForce]

Few more observations for the ELO history records...

Friday 4 hours - 6 times over 130.
Saturday 2,5 hours - 10 times overlord !!!
Sunday 3 hours - zero times over 130

Income equal to Hero + Premium + angry wife.

But.. we wont more stuff like this. (And yes PGI, telemetric is working fine, your formula for the reward was a masterpiece...)

[Errant Audio]

101011, on 06 October 2014 - 11:38 AM, said:

Why did this carry over into Monday? Everyone (hopefully) has work/school, which takes a large chunk of playtime. Really, it would have been much better to make this a true weekend event.

As a stagehand, monday is my saturday, so please lay off the "True Weekend" event stuff. I would like to participate too.