103 replies to this topic

[Funkadelic Mayhem]

Kilo 40, on 04 October 2014 - 12:49 AM, said:

why are you lashing out like this? where exactly did I "QQ for the buffs to everything but lights"? where did I say that I'm angry about lights? do you always lash out like this when someone points out that you're wrong about something?

why are you taking this so personally. Whats that saying. "if the shoe fits". Did I quote you on that? No your just trying to jettison this topic. I dont even know who you are, much less want to play into your victim card.

Edited by Funkadelic Mayhem, 04 October 2014 - 12:54 AM.

[Kilo 40]

Funkadelic Mayhem, on 04 October 2014 - 12:53 AM, said:

why are you taking this so personally.

I simply asked you some questions

Quote

Whats that saying. "if the shoe fits". Did I quote you on that? No your just trying to jettison this topic.

No dude. I simply pointed out that your screen cap doesn't mean a thing. You then took that comment and started attacking me based on a bunch of wild assumptions that make no sense based on what I've already posted in this thread.

Quote

I dont even know who you are, much less want to play into your victim card.

play the victim card? I asked you direct questions about what you said.

I mean, if you're just trolling, please say so and I'll move on to other more productive conversations.

[Funkadelic Mayhem]

k... lets move on while you sober up.

NEXT!

[Kilo 40]

Funkadelic Mayhem, on 04 October 2014 - 01:25 AM, said:

k... lets move on while you sober up.

NEXT!

troll it is then.

[Glythe]

Lights were fine when there weren't guaranteed 3 per team.


Take away artillery/air strikes from everyone but light mechs!



Let us not forget that one of the few IS mechs that is tier one is a light.

Edited by Glythe, 04 October 2014 - 04:37 AM.

[operatorZ]

Mercules, on 03 October 2014 - 11:47 PM, said:

22 Years huh... You are short about 3 years from my experience with Battletech. Light mechs are not Scouts in Battletech. At first Battletech didn't have rules that required scouts. You set up the board and placed models/tokens on it and everyone saw where everything was. While the lore might have called a couple mechs Scouts you didn't actually use them that way.


Years later the double blind rules developed. Then you had a perfect opportunity to Scout. Lots of mechs became very adept at it but not all of them were lights. Griffons became excellent mechs for discovering enemies as you could move fairly quickly and hop to high terrain that would let you overlook wide areas of the map. You then had Long Range weaponry to allow you to start the initial engagement while you maneuvered your other forces. It had just enough armor to not die right away. Lights on the other hand usually had to spot the enemy and fade. They were typically outranged and too fragile to stick and shoot.

The Charger is an 80 ton SCOUT MECH.

Light does not = Scout.



Wipe that from your head. There are more scouts among the light classification simply because many of them move fairly fast and so can recon quickly, but there are medium recon mechs and I pointed out an Assault designed that way initially. Some Scouts are Lights but not all Lights are Scouts.

Light did and do indeed tangle with Mediums, Heavies, and even Assaults in Battletech. Typically they are in a supporting role where they flank the larger mechs while a heavier force meets them head on. Oddly enough this is the way they work best in MWO. Imagine that.

I ran tabletop for years I understand what you're saying, but you're splitting hairs. Call it scouting, flanking, guerrilla, striker.....the point is lights were never designed to brawl with meds, heavies, assaults in any incarnation of battle tech. Some on this thread have called for further buffs to lights including increasing speed, turn rate, quirks. The simple fact of the matter is that an average light pilot has more than enough tools at his disposal to influence the game and contribute. If the OP is worried about people not playing lights because he views this as the coming death of the game; he should be starting a thread about how to improve the game play so lights can take on more of their traditional role.....and get paid for it . Instead of further abusing the faulty hit mechanic, speed and maneuverability to brawl with heavies and assaults, let's face it, ......your a light....... your not supposed to be able to run circles around heavier mechs firing until you almost overheat and then just run away......you're supposed to die if you do that... not withstanding some exceptional pilots and situations...but in NORMAL AVERAGE GAMEPLAY.

All 4 weight classes are not equal and never have been and aren't supposed to. If we had a more rounded game that allowed lights to be more diverse in their contributions that would be great but....saying they need more speed and armor and weapons is only helping the people that already abuse the game mechanics by playing lights to brawl.

[Mercules]

operatorZ, on 04 October 2014 - 07:58 AM, said:

I ran tabletop for years I understand what you're saying, but you're splitting hairs. Call it scouting, flanking, guerrilla, striker.....the point is lights were never designed to brawl with meds, heavies, assaults in any incarnation of battle tech. Some on this thread have called for further buffs to lights including increasing speed, turn rate, quirks. The simple fact of the matter is that an average light pilot has more than enough tools at his disposal to influence the game and contribute. If the OP is worried about people not playing lights because he views this as the coming death of the game; he should be starting a thread about how to improve the game play so lights can take on more of their traditional role.....and get paid for it . Instead of further abusing the faulty hit mechanic, speed and maneuverability to brawl with heavies and assaults, let's face it, ......your a light....... your not supposed to be able to run circles around heavier mechs firing until you almost overheat and then just run away......you're supposed to die if you do that... not withstanding some exceptional pilots and situations...but in NORMAL AVERAGE GAMEPLAY.

All 4 weight classes are not equal and never have been and aren't supposed to. If we had a more rounded game that allowed lights to be more diverse in their contributions that would be great but....saying they need more speed and armor and weapons is only helping the people that already abuse the game mechanics by playing lights to brawl.

I agree with you that the way to get more people into Lights is to make the gameplay more rewarding. See part of the problem is risk versus reward. Lights CAN run through the enemy team and drop an ECM on them, but you have to an excellent pilot who can dodge and weave, the enemy team has to not be completely null heat so they can't just fire wildly, and you need the right bit of "luck" to get out of there with minimal damage. The reward is you just spent 40k C-Bills you will not likely recoup but will probably help your team win.

The maps are so small there really isn't a NEED for scouting so that isn't even rewarding. River City or Forest Colony I start the game dropping shots into the enemy forces as they leave their starting areas. Why scout?

[Adiuvo]

operatorZ, on 04 October 2014 - 07:58 AM, said:

I ran tabletop for years I understand what you're saying, but you're splitting hairs. Call it scouting, flanking, guerrilla, striker.....the point is lights were never designed to brawl with meds, heavies, assaults in any incarnation of battle tech. Some on this thread have called for further buffs to lights including increasing speed, turn rate, quirks. The simple fact of the matter is that an average light pilot has more than enough tools at his disposal to influence the game and contribute. If the OP is worried about people not playing lights because he views this as the coming death of the game; he should be starting a thread about how to improve the game play so lights can take on more of their traditional role.....and get paid for it . Instead of further abusing the faulty hit mechanic, speed and maneuverability to brawl with heavies and assaults, let's face it, ......your a light....... your not supposed to be able to run circles around heavier mechs firing until you almost overheat and then just run away......you're supposed to die if you do that... not withstanding some exceptional pilots and situations...but in NORMAL AVERAGE GAMEPLAY.

All 4 weight classes are not equal and never have been and aren't supposed to. If we had a more rounded game that allowed lights to be more diverse in their contributions that would be great but....saying they need more speed and armor and weapons is only helping the people that already abuse the game mechanics by playing lights to brawl.

MWO was developed with a mind to keeping all weight classes equal. How that's accomplished varies, but overall everything was intended to have the same impact on gameplay.

What lore says doesn't work if you ever intend players to use all equipment.

There also aren't any hit reg problems with lights past what exists in the game in general. Lights also can't run around anything but a Daishi, literally everything can keep track without an issue.

[Joseph Mallan]

Kain Thul, on 03 October 2014 - 01:26 PM, said:

Light 'mechs have a much higher skill ceiling and the majority of people will just flock to whatever is easiest to play.

I don't really see a way for them to encourage light usage beyond additional rewards (c-bills, xp) for piloting lights or doing "light mech" stuff like spotting, narcing, scouting, ecm/ams shielding, etc.

<----------------------ASSAULT PILOT!!! Nuff said!

[Joseph Mallan]

Adiuvo, on 04 October 2014 - 09:34 AM, said:

MWO was developed with a mind to keeping all weight classes equal. How that's accomplished varies, but overall everything was intended to have the same impact on gameplay.

What lore says doesn't work if you ever intend players to use all equipment.

There also aren't any hit reg problems with lights past what exists in the game in general. Lights also can't run around anything but a Daishi, literally everything can keep track without an issue.

That is simply the Dumbest thing they could try to do Adiuvo. One should not be rewarded for bringing a knife to a gun fight Unless he is Dan Inosanto.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 04 October 2014 - 09:52 AM.

[Adiuvo]

Joseph Mallan, on 04 October 2014 - 09:52 AM, said:

That is simply the Dumbest thing they could try to do Adiuvo. One should not be rewarded for bringing a knife to a gun fight Unless he is Dan Inosanto.

Their goal is making the classes different kinds of guns... not one a knife and one a M16.

[Joseph Mallan]

Adiuvo, on 04 October 2014 - 09:57 AM, said:

Their goal is making the classes different kinds of guns... not one a knife and one a M16.

Then An M-16(light) isn't a 50 cal(Medium). and a 50 cal isn't the M256(Assault). You don't use an M16 to breech walls! But you can use a M256 to hit an enemy through a cinder-block wall like a 50 cal!

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 04 October 2014 - 10:01 AM.

[Adiuvo]

Joseph Mallan, on 04 October 2014 - 10:00 AM, said:

Then An M-16(light) isn't a 50 cal(Medium). and a 50 cal isn't the M256(Assault).

That's not how they're balancing them. That might be how it is in lore (I don't know, some say it is some say it isn't) but that's not how PGI is building MWO and it never has been.

PGI have said repeatedly that they aim to prevent the situation of past Mechwarrior games where assaults were the be all end all end game content. They want lights, mediums, heavies, and assaults to all have the same impact on the game and not have one strictly inferior to another.

[Ninthshadow]

I'd like to point out how tragically clan lights are performing when compared to their IS rivals in the tournament. Against any other weight class, for that matter.

The incoming quirks are really going to help IS out, and I agree that most weight classes need it. Considering all the quirks IS lights are going to get though, I am looking forward to some rather miserable months in a clan light for a while.

With their buffs, even locusts are going to be problematic. IS lights are faster and generally better suited to the 'role' most people imagine lights. While I try to remind myself that Clan lights are effectively reverse Cicadas (Clan lights act like mediums) it is little comfort when thinking of the upcoming CW content.

I do not think it is going to be possible, with my level of skill, to be on equal footing with the IS light mechs this year.

[Riscy]

st1x, on 03 October 2014 - 06:09 PM, said:

Is there actually any single pilot out there that has managed to hit the magical 130 points?

I got my first 130 points playing on Canyon and was in a lance with another Jenner F. Together we got two kills each and 4 assists and over 700 damage. Most fun I've had in a long time.

[st1x]

Riscy, on 04 October 2014 - 01:24 PM, said:

I got my first 130 points playing on Canyon and was in a lance with another Jenner F. Together we got two kills each and 4 assists and over 700 damage. Most fun I've had in a long time.

In that case i personally feel that you were lucky and i say well played to you sir. At the end of all of this i would like to see some sort of statistics or graphs that show exactly how much each class won, just purely so we actually have some form of proof when we say that lights (whether they be clan or IS) are being hard done by in damage based competitions such as this.

[Cyborne Elemental]

[Vervuel]

I have and always will do very well in IS lights- Ember especially, until they fix the heat on med lasers, or buff Jenner-F to have reduced med laser heat (I CAN HOPE). In group queue, the role is scout, defend assaults, influence flow of battle by drawing out forces. Lights are kickass!

[JackPoint]

Only issue I have with lights is the lag shield they come with, Fire a 60 point alpha from ssrm6s and guess what, you did 1% dmg. @ 50m.

Edited by Jackpoint, 05 October 2014 - 06:04 AM.

[oneproduct]

1. Make a mech's sensor range proportional to its weight or weight class. This allows a dire wolf to still shoot at targets that are far away, but he won't have the magical red dorito or targeting info to know if/where the mech is injured and what weapons it will be firing back with. He'll need a light spotting to give that info. Similarly, it makes it less likely that a light mech will be spotted by the whole enemy team while trying to flank.
2. Make heavy and assault mechs less agile. Heavies and assaults without the agility basics are about where they should be.
3. Nobody will agree with this one, but really the game should be more like 3/5/2/2 instead of 3/3/3/3. It would give lights and mediums a better chance of finding a fair fight or working together to create 2v1s vs superior heavies/assault. Plus, if you're the one playing that heavy/assault mech you'll feel like more of a badass.

To expand on #3, I'd even go so far as to say you have to do something to earn the right to deploy as a heavy/assault or that you can only deploy in a given weight class a certain number of times per day above your lowest weight class deployment count.

For example, you can have a maximum disparity of 5 between your high weight (heavy/assault) and low weight (light/medium) deployment amounts. So when you start the day you have 0/0/0/0 deployments and you can go up to 0/0/0/5. If you want to play assault more you'd have to play one round as a light or medium then you could go up to 1/0/0/6. The obvious problem with this particular example is that some people would just play 5 games in a day then call it quits but my point is that we need to have some way to control this, not that this particular way is what should be done.

They're trying to make every weight class viable/equivalent and they're doing a pretty good job of it (compared to old mechwarrior titles and games like world of tanks) but they can only go so far and in the end it's hard to deny that the heavier guys are going to be better. And they should be, because buffing lights/mediums so much that they would become equivalent to heavies/assaults isn't flavorful and doesn't keep in line with tabletop/lore (which I don't play or care about, but respect that that's how the story of the game goes and quite enjoy it).

For those who only want to play heavy or assault, I would say that's just too bad. In all the mechwarrior games you always started out in smaller mechs and had to work your way up. In counter-strike and natural selection you have to earn money to use the big guns. In battlefield there's only so many tanks to go around.

There's been tons of games with 4 or 5 assault mechs on each team this weekend. You can't just let everyone play huge mechs. A chess game where every piece is a queen is not chess anymore. And those who chose to remain pawns feel the most difference.

Edited by oneproduct, 05 October 2014 - 07:09 AM.