88 replies to this topic

[LordDeathStrike]

the main abuse in a game like mwo is going to be a physical router "lag shield" switch. a device that loses the "right" packets such that on your end you can shoot people fine, but they have an insanely hard time shooting you as you randomly warp around due to lost packet data.

obviously some losers will try to aimbot of course to get instant long range head shots with out actually using a 7x zoom module and aiming themselves, but the worst of the lot will use lag switches.

[JoeKano]

Cheaters/hackers are the in game version of Forum Trolls, its gaining credibility as either a symptom of a underlying mental illness or an illness in and of itself. Pity them. Then find a way to ban them for their own mental health. Honestly raging at them just feeds the trolls. In COD they usually get their MOAB off and then cant see the screen for the predictable end result of that and wander off on unsteady legs to sleep it off in a corner. Someone rages at em though they just keep lapping it up.

[William Thor]

Hopefully server side anti-cheat is the way developers go by what people are saying here. I don't know much about anti-hack (Except Punkbuster needs to drastically improve its auto-updater hint: it needs to be automatic), Server side calculation is pretty much where they keep all the config files and hit detection server side, but the assets are client side yes?

[Phatt]

HJ JoeKano, on 23 June 2012 - 08:28 PM, said:

Cheaters/hackers are the in game version of Forum Trolls, its gaining credibility as either a symptom of a underlying mental illness or an illness in and of itself. Pity them. Then find a way to ban them for their own mental health. Honestly raging at them just feeds the trolls. In COD they usually get their MOAB off and then cant see the screen for the predictable end result of that and wander off on unsteady legs to sleep it off in a corner. Someone rages at em though they just keep lapping it up.

$alute$ and G'day to HJ JoeKano, from =KH=Phatt. it's been a long time since I played against HJ, nearly 10 years I think.

I totaly agree, and I just ignore them.

In the good old days of MW4 and Mercs when you could host your own server it was a simple case of using an IP tracker in the background and blocking them from the server when you noticed them doing something obnoxious. I'm guessing that MWO will have somekind of option to report in-game trolls and cheaters similar to World of Tanks etc, so I imagine that it won't take to long to weed out the trolls.

[Hexenhammer]

How about an avoid option? Select a person to avoid and the game doesn't match you up with that player? Could something like this be abused? Sure. But it will allow players to get away from spammers, trolls and botters. And who knows, if enough people avoid someone then that player might find themselves unable to play the game because no one wants to play with them. Then they will either quit or change their ways.

[supadox]

Anti-cheat is what makes or breaks a game.

The best and most effective anit-cheat measure is good and active moderators. Actual staff, hired to drop in on games (when called) and take care of cheaters. This coupled with some good client side, memory scanners for cheat prevention, conventional votekick methods and I think you can have a solid game.

I think of "game hacks" as Darwinian evolution for games. Hopefully if a **** ton of public hacks are developed for this game, which I'm sure there will be, the devs will actually step the **** up and consistently work towards keeping the game clean and playable. As soon as the devs get greedy and slack for even a second, all but the most loyal will leave and the game will done.

Here's to hoping for great hacks and even greater hack prevention.

[IronGoat]

LordDeathStrike, on 23 June 2012 - 08:26 PM, said:

the main abuse in a game like mwo is going to be a physical router "lag shield" switch. a device that loses the "right" packets such that on your end you can shoot people fine, but they have an insanely hard time shooting you as you randomly warp around due to lost packet data.

obviously some losers will try to aimbot of course to get instant long range head shots with out actually using a 7x zoom module and aiming themselves, but the worst of the lot will use lag switches.

neither of those things exists or works in WOT so it can be avoided and over come
WOT has its own auto aim any way which auto aims at the thickest most bouncy part of the armor LOL

Dijalin, on 23 June 2012 - 06:00 PM, said:

I personally think that people who cheat in PvP games should be punished by castration via butter knife. I think that would work as a better deterrent than anti-hack software.

"What if the hacker is a girl?" You ask? Girls don't play video games stupid! That's right, that hot elf you were hitting on and giving your hard earned gold to for free, was really a guy, GG sucker!

But srsly.... this hacking nonsense in video games needs to stop. I mean whats the point of playing a game against other people if you are going to cheat to win? How does that give you a sense of accomplishment? And when you get *** owned by players who aren't cheating even when you are, doesn't that make you feel like even more of a loser? Just saying.

cheating at a video game is like spitting on your hand than bragging to your freinds how great you are at HWacking off LOL

[Elizander]

My personal preference is Hackshield by AhnLab but they are a Korean company.

[coRpSE]

supadox, on 23 June 2012 - 09:05 PM, said:

Anti-cheat is what makes or breaks a game.

The best and most effective anit-cheat measure is good and active moderators. Actual staff, hired to drop in on games (when called) and take care of cheaters. This coupled with some good client side, memory scanners for cheat prevention, conventional votekick methods and I think you can have a solid game.

I think of "game hacks" as Darwinian evolution for games. Hopefully if a **** ton of public hacks are developed for this game, which I'm sure there will be, the devs will actually step the **** up and consistently work towards keeping the game clean and playable. As soon as the devs get greedy and slack for even a second, all but the most loyal will leave and the game will done.

Here's to hoping for great hacks and even greater hack prevention.

I agree with you, the best anticheat is to have active staff to pay close attention to the server and what goes on, but like someone mentioned, what WoT has done by keeping the calculations on server side is better then most other systems out there. As for PB and VAC anti cheat systems, each has their perks and downfalls, but both still require active admins with in the community to report the suspicious activity that is done by the players then the systems do their thing with the scans and screenshots and then go from there.

As for those that said PB has banned them wrongfully, well its not PB that banned you. There are these sites like PunksBusted, PBBans, and GGC that provide MBL service to the game servers, but they also have their own library's of known hacks and will put you on their MBL listings if PB detects what they think possibly is a hack.

A good example of this would be where I had a uninstall.exe file from a mod pack I installed for the custom game servers I used to play, and PunksBusted put my on their MBL where GGC and PBBans both said it was not a hack, so any server i went to that was streaming PunksBusted, I could not go on. I even contacted PB and they said they no longer stream a MBL, (Master Ban List), but just do the software side of things.

As for those that said PB does not do their job I am guessing has little to no idea how it works. To just give a run down, PB still requires admins to report any new hack that they think are out their, or provide info of a certian person possiably hacking, then they gather screenshots while this person is play to see exactly what they are seeing, but then scanse the files and folders to see if their is anything that does not belong. Once they detect a hack and if its not in the database, it gets added and now they know what files to look for.

Yes, their is room for improvements, but its not a bad system. As for VAC, when I first messed around with VAC it was not good at all, but now it also has improved allot. The one thing i dislike about it is it can take between 3 weeks to 6 weeks before they ban a known hacker, in hopes that they catch him using something else so they can add it into their DB. I found out that in a post that was made on Steams forums from a VAC dev. To me, if they caught, they shout be banned right away. Do they handel it that way now, not sure, this was a few years back. Overall, mixing the systems like Red Orchestra has done where they have both VAC and PB, along with doing something like WoT has done would probably be the best way to combat hackers/cheaters.

Overall, there are going to be "those" people that feel the need to cheat to be the best rather then develop their skills in playing the game to how it was designed to be played, and I think with a strong community presence trying to keep the game clean along with a good staff that will stay on top of things and deal with the situations overall will be the best anti cheat out their. Another thing that would be nice is also to do something like Enemy Territory did with their replays, and give the ability to see the view from everyone in the battle. Again, that's in the replays, not in normal play. That way if someone has their suspicions, they can go back and take a look and see if they were mistaken, which I would guess about 99.9% of claims of hackers is just that, mistaken in thinking that their butt was not showing around a building or if they were in total protection or not..

Edited by coRpSE, 23 June 2012 - 11:06 PM.

[Shivus]

Yeah as long as the server handles everything there will be no lag shield. If you lose the right packets it won't matter because the server will have your position recorded and estimate your movement based on the last good packet, it will relay that good information to all other players. There have been instances in MWLL of lag shielding but it only works because the server/client dynamic is more client authoritative rather than fully server authoritative. In a completely server authoritative environment, the only way to cheat the server is to somehow create false packets disguised as real packets relaying completely different coordinates. And not only is that incredibly obvious to see and easy to catch, but the server will probably have safeguards in place saying a mech warping around the battlefield isn't right.

Eve online as well, completely server authoritative, zero hacks. About the most you can do is macro mine or bot missions and sanctums but both of those are only computer input on the client's behalf, they do not modify packets.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

LordDeathStrike, on 23 June 2012 - 08:26 PM, said:

the main abuse in a game like mwo is going to be a physical router "lag shield" switch. a device that loses the "right" packets such that on your end you can shoot people fine, but they have an insanely hard time shooting you as you randomly warp around due to lost packet data.

obviously some losers will try to aimbot of course to get instant long range head shots with out actually using a 7x zoom module and aiming themselves, but the worst of the lot will use lag switches.

I know what house theyll be from lol

HJ JoeKano, on 23 June 2012 - 08:28 PM, said:

Cheaters/hackers are the in game version of Forum Trolls, its gaining credibility as either a symptom of a underlying mental illness or an illness in and of itself. Pity them. Then find a way to ban them for their own mental health. Honestly raging at them just feeds the trolls. In COD they usually get their MOAB off and then cant see the screen for the predictable end result of that and wander off on unsteady legs to sleep it off in a corner. Someone rages at em though they just keep lapping it up.

Yeah but the devs/mods dont take that **** even HERE
Ive been quite impressed actually

Edited by 514yer, 23 June 2012 - 11:18 PM.

[Paul Inouye]

As stated in another thread...

We have counter-measures in place and will continue to refine them. PGI will NEVER discuss these features in a public forum.

[W4lt3r]

Better question is that, is the game going to be client-sided, server-sided or mixed when doing hit calculations and so forth.
If it's live style server-side calculations like in WoT (Sorry for the comparison), it's going to be nigh-impossible to apply any sort of hacks.
Injecting any code to the .exe or anything will not do anything, since all the data is fetched from the server. Clients only get to send the commands whatever the server allows and act upon that.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Paul Inouye, on 23 June 2012 - 11:24 PM, said:

As stated in another thread...

We have counter-measures in place and will continue to refine them. PGI will NEVER discuss these features in a public forum.

wooo its pink paul!!

[D1G17AL]

I can't believe people don't think about League and how that game hardly ever suffers from cheaters if at all (It's free to play just like WoT). Just whiny little kids at times but never any hackers really, you know why?

Free to play games are not worth the time to hack. It just doesn't afford those hacker kids the same kicks and besides like most are saying, stuff like this isn't discussed openly and it usually relies on the server side of things due to it being matchmaking.

This thread should be closed imo. It's served its purpose to raise questions and concerns about cheating. I think we can all remain calm and know that cheating will most likely be very limited if at all.

[Freyar]

D1G17AL, on 23 June 2012 - 11:35 PM, said:

Free to play games are not worth the time to hack. It just doesn't afford those hacker kids the same kicks and besides like most are saying, stuff like this isn't discussed openly and it usually relies on the server side of things due to it being matchmaking.

League does well because of it's RTS and server-oriented backing for damage and targeting. In an action oriented game, cheating becomes much more appealing as you get a more direct benefit.

[Antaumus]

Lots of games have anti cheat software, but the punishment is not enough. "We noticed your cheating please don't do that again". Ban them forever is the only response to cheating.

[Roastage]

Active moderation is the best anti-cheat available. Honestly the game is going to be Free 2 Play so anybody is able to create and re-create accounts so there will definitely be cheaters at some stage or another. When there is little or no invesment in an account (non-founder/subscription/currency purchases) average players are more likely to consinder cheating for trolling or potential gain.

Considering Pirahna's levels of communication at the moment I would be dissapointed if there wasn't an active admin presence. Really you only need 1 or 2 dedicated admins that can respond to incident reports.

Paul Inouye, on 23 June 2012 - 11:24 PM, said:

As stated in another thread...

We have counter-measures in place and will continue to refine them. PGI will NEVER discuss these features in a public forum.

Logical approach for back end anti cheat methods. Can we expect active moderation?

[Simokon]

As long as it works I don't really care what they use to stop cheaters

[Teralitha]

Roastage, on 23 June 2012 - 11:50 PM, said:

Considering Pirahna's levels of communication at the moment I would be dissapointed if there wasn't an active admin presence. Really you only need 1 or 2 dedicated admins that can respond to incident reports.

Yea lets look at league of legends for an example... they get thousands of incident reports, every day... 1 or 2 admins couldnt keep up.