33 replies to this topic

[Bartholomew bartholomew]

You want direct fire only. Let the weak lrms be left as is.

But Artemis. Direct fire only except with tag/narc. 1000m per sec. Fires in ripples of 5 clan or IS. And goes CT directly unless tag beam otherwise. 2000M range with tag/narc. Let it be the beast it should. That way direct fire lurms will be one on one with any dakka. And you better hope to god scouts do not scout. The scream of artemis missiles are the last thing many mechwarriors have heard.

If you want direct fire only it has to match your hide. Be prepared...

[Davegt27]

"Enough with telling players what they can talk about. I can bring up bad mechanics if I want to.
And cell phone? Lol what does my real world cell phone have to do with a video game mechanic?

I agree. Communications are a part of warfare. It's a shame that MWO dumbed it down to almost nothing."

your right

Mom I am getting killed in a video game again

honey why is that

they are sharing information

you mean like a phone
yes mom like a phone

well you just tell them to hang up


edit:
http://en.wikipedia....unications_Node

Edited by Davegt27, 05 October 2014 - 06:35 PM.

[EgoSlayer]

Halcyon201, on 05 October 2014 - 06:19 PM, said:

If just one mech sees you and maintains LoS every missile will hit me whether I'm moving or not.
I've seen it. That's what happens. You can bring up % numbers all you want, doesn't change the fact of what happens in game.
And who cares if missiles have a low hit percentage; when you have 60 LRMS incoming it doesn't really matter.

<snip>

No. Just no. The very fact that LRM's have the lowest hit rate disproves your statement. If in fact 100% of LRMs always hit you when indirect fired, that is 100% on you. Even with maintained lock they will still miss if the target gets to cover or has AMS cover.

[Mahnmut]

If PGI really wants to add role warfare then the OP suggestions are pretty spot on. LRM flight time could be sped up and accuracy increased to make them more useful when there is a lock or in LOS.

[-Halcyon-]

EgoSlayer, on 05 October 2014 - 06:31 PM, said:

No. Just no. The very fact that LRM's have the lowest hit rate disproves your statement. If in fact 100% of LRMs always hit you when indirect fired, that is 100% on you. Even with maintained lock they will still miss if the target gets to cover or has AMS cover.

Not going to argue something that happens to me and I see happen to others. Disbelieve all you want with percentages.
It still happens. And I never said anything about cover or AMS.

[Bartholomew bartholomew]

LURMS hit rate is about 33% steady across the board. Which means you are only taking 1/3 of the possible damage from them. They need to be made a whole lot better. But even with them being weak as all get out right now you all complain every day. God help us if they ever fix them right.

Edited by Bartholomew bartholomew, 05 October 2014 - 06:46 PM.

[Mcgral18]

Farix, on 05 October 2014 - 11:54 AM, said:

But indirect fire is not precise. If you call for fire onto a position, it is the position that receives the fire, not a specific unit, or in this case a mech. If the mech moves from the position before the missile strike gets there, well, it should be a miss. However, under the current system, 100% of the LRMs will track the mech as it moves so long as a "target lock" is maintained regardless of whether the attacking mech as line of sight or not.

Actually, there is a +1 to hit with indirect fire.

That's it. Another 1 if the spotter fired, along with his movement penalties, but for a spotter simply looking, you get a +1 to hit with indirect LRMs. Same as walking.

[Lil Cthulhu]

Halcyon201, on 05 October 2014 - 06:19 PM, said:

If just one mech sees you and maintains LoS every missile will hit me whether I'm moving or not.
I've seen it. That's what happens. You can bring up % numbers all you want, doesn't change the fact of what happens in game.
And who cares if missiles have a low hit percentage; when you have 60 LRMS incoming it doesn't really matter.

Again, to simplify, if the LRM shooter doesn't have LoS his missiles shouldn't track the target. Period!
The only exceptions are TAG and NARC. That's it!



I didn't even talk about TT in my original post. Board games do not transition 100% effectively into video games.
I don't care what the rules are of TT, I never brought them up and I don't really know what they are anyway.

From an online game play balance perspective, the way things are now are unbalanced.



Enough with telling players what they can talk about. I can bring up bad mechanics if I want to.
And cell phone? Lol what does my real world cell phone have to do with a video game mechanic?

I agree. Communications are a part of warfare. It's a shame that MWO dumbed it down to almost nothing.

[Kaspirikay]

I agree, sharing target lock for the entire team makes LRMs extremely deadly.

[Kilo 40]

Halcyon201, on 05 October 2014 - 07:33 AM, said:

This has been talked about 1 million times, so here's discussion #1,000,001 about it because it's not getting any better.

I don't understand why any mech can simply target someone without any supporting modules or equipment (like C3) and share that targeting information with the rest of the team.
The team can then use this information to collectively dump LRMs on that target.

This is bs and needs to change.
There is only one piece of equipment that should allow this, and that's the TAG laser. Just looking at someone in your cockpit shouldn't give the rest of your team the ability to magically land all their precision guided missiles on target with no LoS and no personal targeting information.

I'm just sick and tired of going up against one mech solo and then all of a sudden 50 missiles come from off screen launched by mechs *I* can't even see.
If you fight one mech alone, you're really fighting their entire team except they can fire on you and you can't hit anyone except the mech in front of you.

Please, someone explain to me how this is fair and balanced gameplay, because I'm just not seeing it.

*The constructive part of my post*
Instead of just complaining, I'm going to offer some suggestions.

- Remove native shared target mechanics. If you can't see anything with your own mech, you shouldn't know where the entire other team is (exception: C3, UAV, TAG (only if LRMs are equipped)

- Add a C3 module/equipment. If light scouts (or anyone) wants to share recon info like where the other team is, they should have it equipped. If they choose not to equip it, then they have to use their Mk 1 eyeballs like everyone else

- The TAG should be the only equipment that allows shared LRM tracking. If you don't have it equipped, then your teammates shouldn't be able to hit mechs with LRMs that they can't see or target themselves

Half of the game should be recon and information gathering, and the way it is now that whole aspect of the game is being thrown away which leaves just arena style arcade brawling.
If they don't want to give us bigger maps or persistent maps fine, but jeez can we deepen the gameplay just a little bit with simple changes like these?

too sum up..."team work is OP"

[El Bandito]

Halcyon201, on 05 October 2014 - 06:19 PM, said:

From an online game play balance perspective, the way things are now are unbalanced.

Of course it is unbalanced. LRMs are too underpowered right now, and no one picks them in competitive matches.

Edited by El Bandito, 05 October 2014 - 10:44 PM.

[Elizander]

terrycloth, on 05 October 2014 - 11:00 AM, said:

In practice, tag is useless. It needs to be 'sticky' somehow. Maybe the person who has the tag locks on to the target and it automatically tracks and tags as long as you have line of sight.

As it is now, requiring a tag lock would make indirect fire impossible because the painting is so sporadic.

Also, by BT rules, you don't need any extra equipment to call down LRMs. In real life it's the same way, unless you count walkie talkies.

Tag is simply used to turn LRMs into a direct fire weapon that deals a significant amount of damage. It's really not as good for scouts hoping to get LRMs boats 1000 meters away into the fight. The lock is easily lost and there is no guarantee that you can keep a target tagged until the LRMs get there because well, you'll die.

When fights are out in the open and enemy teams are thinking they are safe in their ECM umbrella or just outright throwing CLRMs into the face of your enemy in a clan mech then TAG works fine. TAG is more useful on a relatively maneuverable LRM boat rather than a light mech with no missiles in most pub games unless people are silly and stand out in the open on their Dire Whale.

I think the free C3 is okay and nerfing it down right now would be too drastic and would upset the 90% of the player base that don't bother pressing R in pub matches. Looking at the overall effect this certainly isn't good but I understand that the frustration lies with these Information gathering abilities are given for free to all mechs, making the role of scout mechs less relevant other than calling out to TS3 where the enemy is going then running back behind cover.

Some things we can do to improve the system without nerfing would be:

1) Scout Quirk/Module that will also transmit Engine Type and Rating to the team or just make the user of the module aware of the information. You'll find out right away if the enemy is using a big engine or has XL (but mostly useless against clan mechs).
2) Heat Scanner - Module that shows you the heat bar or heat % of the enemy and can transmit to team.
3) Seismic Sensor mine - Plants a mine in a location that transmits enemy mech movement within a certain range of the mine.

I'd have to point out though that things like this should be more beneficial to light mechs and some mediums rather than equally beneficial to all mechs. The problem right now is that anything lights/scouts can do can also be done by heavier mechs. The one and only thing that light mechs have is speed and that makes their role pretty shallow.

[Mercules]

Farix, on 05 October 2014 - 11:54 AM, said:

But indirect fire is not precise. If you call for fire onto a position, it is the position that receives the fire, not a specific unit, or in this case a mech. If the mech moves from the position before the missile strike gets there, well, it should be a miss. However, under the current system, 100% of the LRMs will track the mech as it moves so long as a "target lock" is maintained regardless of whether the attacking mech as line of sight or not.

So you are saying that under the current system it is more like Battletech where it does hit a particular mech and not a position?

Farix, on 05 October 2014 - 11:54 AM, said:

What I would suggest is that a lock cannot be achieved unless the LRM carrier has direct line of sight on the target or a spotter with specialized equipment has tagged/narced the target. While an LRM carrier can still indirect fire its LRMs onto a position, LRMs will not track a specific target. Hitting a moving target when you don't have line of sight with LRM should be extremely difficult.

I would suggest using AMS and being situationally aware so you don't have spotters and know where the cover is.

See... my team got a ECM Raven behind our lines on Caustic. One of the worst maps to deal with LRMs on. There were no less than three LRM boats on the opposing team. That was my and my teammates bad that we let him maneuver around us. That was excellent work on his part. However as soon as I noticed that a mech ducking LRMs that dodged to the side still got hit I spun, spotted the Raven, and brought him under fire. He stopped spotting, our mech was under ECM so when the Raven stopped pointing a TAG at him he was able to survive. I then hunted that Raven down.

I suppose my other move could have been to stand there and stupidly die then come to the forums and complain about how targeting and indirect fire for LRMs work... but then I'd have to admit to the world that I don't know how to play this game.

[Joseph Mallan]

Halcyon201, on 05 October 2014 - 07:33 AM, said:

This has been talked about 1 million times, so here's discussion #1,000,001 about it because it's not getting any better.

I don't understand why any mech can simply target someone without any supporting modules or equipment (like C3) and share that targeting information with the rest of the team.
The team can then use this information to collectively dump LRMs on that target.

This is bs and needs to change.
There is only one piece of equipment that should allow this, and that's the TAG laser. Just looking at someone in your cockpit shouldn't give the rest of your team the ability to magically land all their precision guided missiles on target with no LoS and no personal targeting information.

I'm just sick and tired of going up against one mech solo and then all of a sudden 50 missiles come from off screen launched by mechs *I* can't even see.
If you fight one mech alone, you're really fighting their entire team except they can fire on you and you can't hit anyone except the mech in front of you.

Please, someone explain to me how this is fair and balanced gameplay, because I'm just not seeing it.

*The constructive part of my post*
Instead of just complaining, I'm going to offer some suggestions.

- Remove native shared target mechanics. If you can't see anything with your own mech, you shouldn't know where the entire other team is (exception: C3, UAV, TAG (only if LRMs are equipped)

- Add a C3 module/equipment. If light scouts (or anyone) wants to share recon info like where the other team is, they should have it equipped. If they choose not to equip it, then they have to use their Mk 1 eyeballs like everyone else

- The TAG should be the only equipment that allows shared LRM tracking. If you don't have it equipped, then your teammates shouldn't be able to hit mechs with LRMs that they can't see or target themselves

Half of the game should be recon and information gathering, and the way it is now that whole aspect of the game is being thrown away which leaves just arena style arcade brawling.
If they don't want to give us bigger maps or persistent maps fine, but jeez can we deepen the gameplay just a little bit with simple changes like these?

Cause without C3 we can share targeting information right now on the battlefield. It's done using a Field Radio and a map!