601 replies to this topic

[xWiredx]

Bill Lumbar, on 19 December 2014 - 02:01 PM, said:

So let me get this right.... You are claiming my AMD system is not the norm for most AMD systems, and given my specs? And to end this argument, that it is very clear on these vary forums, Intel rigs are suffering also....

Now you want to suggest to me, that I need to turn on fraps.... record 3 minutes of my first 20 matches and then go on to the process of rendering how many GB's of footage(8.11 GB per 2:54's clip) for an hour worth of video recorded, and you want me to use my FX-8350 to convert the hour worth of footage from fraps.... to put this issue to rest?

Come on Seriously?

FRAPS has a benchmark setting for recording framerate... you don't need to record video. You really don't know much in the performance arena at all, do you? It's saved in CSV so you can format it in Excel or the OpenOffice equivalent. Show us actual numbers, or quit talking like you've got them.

[Lord Letto]

I think this thread needs some pruning, if a mod can clean this up please, maybe move the off topic AMD Vs. Intel stuff into another thread?

[Bill Lumbar]

I think there are really no need for numbers... I build both Intel and Amd systems, own them, and know the difference in reality and fiction or a sales pitch when I see one. Just saying

The Intel is strong among you Sir.

[Catamount]

Bill Lumbar, on 19 December 2014 - 02:39 PM, said:

I think there are really no need for numbers... I build both Intel and Amd systems, own them, and know the difference in reality and fiction or a sales pitch when I see one. Just saying

The Intel is strong among you Sir.

In other words, I know I'm right, because I say so, and I'm not going to put data out there that's going to disprove me, because I'm right, because I know I am, because I say I am, because I know so, because I say so, and I don't need any of that data nonsense to show it.

You can go have fun with that, while we continue to give the correct advice, which is buying Intel. No, it's not correct because we say so; it's correct because unlike you, Wired and I would put up numbers to actually back ourselves, and put them against your system, any day of the week. You have the fanboy opinion, and we have the data-backed conclusion. I'm sorry, but there it is. And when it comes time to give advice to members on these boards, we're going to be sure that it's the data-backed conclusion they go with, even if it means putting up the numbers you won't.

Lord Letto, on 19 December 2014 - 02:28 PM, said:

I think this thread needs some pruning, if a mod can clean this up please, maybe move the off topic AMD Vs. Intel stuff into another thread?

I would have agreed, but I don't think there's anything left to say here on that.

Edited by Catamount, 19 December 2014 - 04:26 PM.

[Cimarb]

Bill Lumbar, on 19 December 2014 - 02:39 PM, said:

I think there are really no need for numbers... I build both Intel and Amd systems, own them, and know the difference in reality and fiction or a sales pitch when I see one. Just saying

The Intel is strong among you Sir.

I like how you "liked" Lord Letto's post about the argument being off topic, then responded over ten minutes later continuing the argument, lol...

[Smokeyjedi]

As an Owner of phenom ii 555 BE, fx4100(X2) fx8150 fx8350 (all clocked @ 4.6-555 BE was 4.21ghz or higher)......I make fun of MWO on the daily for the fact that a 4.7ghz fx8350 has enough power to convert 1080P movies in <10 mins....but MWO makes it weep.

Advances have been made in terms of 64 bit client and optimization passes......But still MWO is the single most CPU demanding title that I have ever played........Even Intel I7 rigs can notice slowdowns in MWO.........That itself speaks volumes..............

Someday CPUs will get a break from MWO.....as of this moment......these rigs are built to be overclocked for MWO AMD or intel this thread will lead you to overclocked game rigs........

Edited by Smokeyjedi, 19 December 2014 - 05:10 PM.

[Bill Lumbar]

Catamount, on 19 December 2014 - 04:25 PM, said:

In other words, I know I'm right, because I say so, and I'm not going to put data out there that's going to disprove me, because I'm right, because I know I am, because I say I am, because I know so, because I say so, and I don't need any of that data nonsense to show it.

You can go have fun with that, while we continue to give the correct advice, which is buying Intel. No, it's not correct because we say so; it's correct because unlike you, Wired and I would put up numbers to actually back ourselves, and put them against your system, any day of the week. You have the fanboy opinion, and we have the data-backed conclusion. I'm sorry, but there it is. And when it comes time to give advice to members on these boards, we're going to be sure that it's the data-backed conclusion they go with, even if it means putting up the numbers you won't.



I would have agreed, but I don't think there's anything left to say here on that.

Like I said before, and I stand as a Oak on this issue. Numbers can be played with all day long from either camp.... the game engine this game is created under simply is not optimized to fully use the power of any mid to high end CPU that Intel or Amd has made in the last 4 years. That is a well known fact. You can say your giving the correct advice all day long to others, but I and many that have both systems that are not fan boys will understand the reality of a good sales pitch and hype, its nothing more then that.

It would be interesting for a tester to have you sit down, have two gaming rigs that you have no idea as to the hardware installed in them, and play MWO on both and see which one you think is Intel and Amd. I would really like to see your answer.

Edited by Bill Lumbar, 19 December 2014 - 05:31 PM.

[Flapdrol]

Bill Lumbar, on 19 December 2014 - 02:39 PM, said:

I think there are really no need for numbers

I think there is.

[xWiredx]

The point really is that a $1000 Intel-based system will walk all over a $1000 AMD-based system when it comes to MWO. Saying otherwise is essentially admitting that one knows nothing other than bullheadedness and fanboyism. I will restate what I said a page or so back: In the 500-1000 range, there's no reason to recommend an AMD system over an Intel system. Closer to the $500 range, sure, but when you're looking for performance and you've got 600-1000 to spend, Intel is the better choice for this game. Every ounce of test data multiple users has contributed in this forum has proven it already.

[Catamount]

Back to the OP

Logan Hawke, on 18 December 2014 - 03:19 AM, said:

Okay, before this gets further into this argument, are we all agreed that this is a good build in combination with the parts I already have?
http://pcpartpicker.com/p/Zftxt6

Take the recommended Mobo change to MSI, yes, but also get rid of that Antec Three Hundred. The front-back HDD mounting scheme is a lot messier for wiring than the newer right-to-left setup, not to mention putting drives in and taking them out is physically somewhat harder when stuff like GPUs is in the way, and in general wiring accommodation has gotten a lot better in newer cases.

Antec did update the case if you still want to stay with them, and at $59, that's a really good value.

http://www.newegg.co...N82E16811129180

and there are plenty of others

The Zalman Z11 has the nice MiR of the Antec Three Hundred, and so comes to only ten bucks more after all is said and done. It's a nicer case than the Antec Three Hundreds, has more USB ports and a better fan setup.

http://www.newegg.co...N82E16811235033


and there's a million others from Rosewill, DIY, NZXT, and probably a dozen more I'm not thinking of. There are just nicer cases than the original Three Hundred for around the same price

[Catamount]

Bill Lumbar, on 19 December 2014 - 05:19 PM, said:

Like I said before, and I stand as a Oak on this issue.

You can stand firmly with a position that's wrong all you want; it's still wrong.

Quote

It would be interesting for a tester to have you sit down, have two gaming rigs that you have no idea as to the hardware installed in them, and play MWO on both and see which one you think is Intel and Amd. I would really like to see your answer.

In other words, you know you're objectively wrong, so you rely on the subjective.

If I complain about stutter at framerate minimums far beyond what your AMD rig delivers, why would I not complain more about worse minimums? The only way you could ever hope to be right is hoping that Intel rigs are already so bad that the decreased performance from AMD wouldn't be a notable addition to already-present sub-optimal performance.

Edited by Catamount, 19 December 2014 - 08:48 PM.

[Talys]

Feel free to move this if it doesn't belong in this thread. I'm going to build a PC for the first time and would like some feedback.

Other than some visual preferences I'm going for a reasonably priced system that can run MWO well. So far I've come up with this:

http://pcpartpicker.com/p/FXsXdC

CPU: Intel Core i5-4460 3.2GHz Quad-Core Processor ($174.75 @ OutletPC)
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler ($26.75 @ OutletPC)
Thermal Compound: Arctic Silver 5 High-Density Polysynthetic Silver 3.5g Thermal Paste ($6.77 @ OutletPC)
Motherboard: MSI Z97-G45 Gaming ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($135.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($59.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Seagate Barracuda 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($50.88 @ OutletPC)
Video Card: MSI GeForce GTX 660 2GB Video Card ($134.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Case: BitFenix Shinobi Window ATX Mid Tower Case ($53.99 @ NCIX US)
Power Supply: EVGA 750W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($89.99 @ NCIX US)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 8.1 (OEM) (64-bit) ($89.98 @ OutletPC)
Case Fan: BitFenix BFF-LPRO-12025R-RP 56.2 CFM 120mm Fan ($11.89 @ OutletPC)
Total: $835.97
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-12-19 23:27 EST-0500

Thoughts?

[Catamount]

Talys, on 19 December 2014 - 08:28 PM, said:

Feel free to move this if it doesn't belong in this thread. I'm going to build a PC for the first time and would like some feedback.

Other than some visual preferences I'm going for a reasonably priced system that can run MWO well. So far I've come up with this:

http://pcpartpicker.com/p/FXsXdC

CPU: Intel Core i5-4460 3.2GHz Quad-Core Processor ($174.75 @ OutletPC)
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler ($26.75 @ OutletPC)
Thermal Compound: Arctic Silver 5 High-Density Polysynthetic Silver 3.5g Thermal Paste ($6.77 @ OutletPC)
Motherboard: MSI Z97-G45 Gaming ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($135.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($59.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Seagate Barracuda 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($50.88 @ OutletPC)
Video Card: MSI GeForce GTX 660 2GB Video Card ($134.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Case: BitFenix Shinobi Window ATX Mid Tower Case ($53.99 @ NCIX US)
Power Supply: EVGA 750W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($89.99 @ NCIX US)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 8.1 (OEM) (64-bit) ($89.98 @ OutletPC)
Case Fan: BitFenix BFF-LPRO-12025R-RP 56.2 CFM 120mm Fan ($11.89 @ OutletPC)
Total: $835.97
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-12-19 23:27 EST-0500

Thoughts?

It's not a bad start by any means.

I think the only critical flaw I can find is that you're paring a PSU obviously for OCing, with a board that looks like it's basically for OCing, and an aftermarket CPU cooler for OCING, but you're purchased a locked chip. ????

That's also too much CPU to be pairing with a GTX 660. You could increase this rig's performance considerably just with some part juggling and almost no price change (your rig comes up as $916 when I load it)

Why not something more like this? It gives you a CPU you can actually OC, and the 760 is like 25% more powerful than the 660, which means in most games your rig will by 25% faster, for a negligible price increase. All I did, basically, was lop some money off the excessive PSU (excessive because I just don't think you'll be going for some stupid super-extreme OC, and couldn't on a 212Evo anyways). I also switched the case fan to something superior.

http://pcpartpicker.com/p/nDxcVn

If you were willing to expand your budget a smidge though, it would go a long ways. For $100 more, you could get a 770, and for $150 more, you could get a 970, and they'd make the machine stupidly faster in most games for modest price increases.

[Lord Letto]

Talys, on 19 December 2014 - 08:28 PM, said:

Feel free to move this if it doesn't belong in this thread. I'm going to build a PC for the first time and would like some feedback.

Other than some visual preferences I'm going for a reasonably priced system that can run MWO well. So far I've come up with this:

http://pcpartpicker.com/p/FXsXdC

CPU: Intel Core i5-4460 3.2GHz Quad-Core Processor ($174.75 @ OutletPC)
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler ($26.75 @ OutletPC)
Thermal Compound: Arctic Silver 5 High-Density Polysynthetic Silver 3.5g Thermal Paste ($6.77 @ OutletPC)
Motherboard: MSI Z97-G45 Gaming ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($135.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($59.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Seagate Barracuda 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($50.88 @ OutletPC)
Video Card: MSI GeForce GTX 660 2GB Video Card ($134.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Case: BitFenix Shinobi Window ATX Mid Tower Case ($53.99 @ NCIX US)
Power Supply: EVGA 750W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($89.99 @ NCIX US)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 8.1 (OEM) (64-bit) ($89.98 @ OutletPC)
Case Fan: BitFenix BFF-LPRO-12025R-RP 56.2 CFM 120mm Fan ($11.89 @ OutletPC)
Total: $835.97
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-12-19 23:27 EST-0500

Thoughts?

what's your budget and what visual preferences are you going for? also, you used the US Pcpartpicker, there's one for us Canadians also: http://ca.pcpartpicker.com/

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i5-4690K 3.5GHz Quad-Core Processor ($249.99 @ Newegg Canada)
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler ($30.98 @ DirectCanada)
Thermal Compound: Arctic Silver 5 High-Density Polysynthetic Silver 12g Thermal Paste ($18.24 @ DirectCanada)
Motherboard: ASRock Z97 PRO3 ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($109.98 @ Newegg Canada)
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws X Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($80.22 @ DirectCanada)
Storage: Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($57.98 @ DirectCanada)
Video Card: Sapphire Radeon R9 270X 2GB Dual-X Video Card ($207.99 @ Newegg Canada)
Case: BitFenix Shinobi Window ATX Mid Tower Case ($59.99 @ NCIX)
Power Supply: EVGA SuperNOVA NEX 750W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($84.99 @ Memory Express)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 8.1 (OEM) (64-bit) ($98.98 @ DirectCanada)
Case Fan: BitFenix BFF-LPRO-12025R-RP 56.2 CFM 120mm Fan ($14.99 @ Memory Express)
Total: $997.33
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-12-20 00:46 EST-0500

Edited by Lord Letto, 19 December 2014 - 09:47 PM.

[Smokeyjedi]

Catamount, on 19 December 2014 - 09:20 PM, said:

It's not a bad start by any means.

I think the only critical flaw I can find is that you're paring a PSU obviously for OCing, with a board that looks like it's basically for OCing, and an aftermarket CPU cooler for OCING, but you're purchased a locked chip. ????

That's also too much CPU to be pairing with a GTX 660. You could increase this rig's performance considerably just with some part juggling and almost no price change (your rig comes up as $916 when I load it)

Why not something more like this? It gives you a CPU you can actually OC, and the 760 is like 25% more powerful than the 660, which means in most games your rig will by 25% faster, for a negligible price increase. All I did, basically, was lop some money off the excessive PSU (excessive because I just don't think you'll be going for some stupid super-extreme OC, and couldn't on a 212Evo anyways). I also switched the case fan to something superior.

http://pcpartpicker.com/p/nDxcVn

If you were willing to expand your budget a smidge though, it would go a long ways. For $100 more, you could get a 770, and for $150 more, you could get a 970, and they'd make the machine stupidly faster in most games for modest price increases.

for the price, this is a fine MWO rig. OC that I5 and never look back. MWO would play smooth......translating into: THIS RIG WILL PLAY ANY AAA TITLE SMOOTHLY..........LOL MWO the gluttonous mammoth we all have come to love and thrash our hardware over.

[Lord Letto]

Catamount, on 19 December 2014 - 09:20 PM, said:

It's not a bad start by any means.

I think the only critical flaw I can find is that you're paring a PSU obviously for OCing, with a board that looks like it's basically for OCing, and an aftermarket CPU cooler for OCING, but you're purchased a locked chip. ????

That's also too much CPU to be pairing with a GTX 660. You could increase this rig's performance considerably just with some part juggling and almost no price change (your rig comes up as $916 when I load it)

Why not something more like this? It gives you a CPU you can actually OC, and the 760 is like 25% more powerful than the 660, which means in most games your rig will by 25% faster, for a negligible price increase. All I did, basically, was lop some money off the excessive PSU (excessive because I just don't think you'll be going for some stupid super-extreme OC, and couldn't on a 212Evo anyways). I also switched the case fan to something superior.

http://pcpartpicker.com/p/nDxcVn

If you were willing to expand your budget a smidge though, it would go a long ways. For $100 more, you could get a 770, and for $150 more, you could get a 970, and they'd make the machine stupidly faster in most games for modest price increases.

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i5-4670K 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor ($258.32 @ TigerDirect Canada)
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler ($30.98 @ DirectCanada)
Thermal Compound: Arctic Silver 5 High-Density Polysynthetic Silver 3.5g Thermal Paste ($7.71 @ DirectCanada)
Motherboard: MSI Z97-G45 Gaming ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($154.99 @ Memory Express)
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($79.95 @ DirectCanada)
Storage: Seagate Barracuda 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($56.89 @ DirectCanada)
Video Card: Zotac GeForce GTX 760 2GB Video Card ($227.00 @ Vuugo)
Case: BitFenix Shinobi Window ATX Mid Tower Case ($59.99 @ NCIX)
Power Supply: Rosewill Hive 650W 80+ Bronze Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply ($93.98 @ Newegg Canada)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 8.1 (OEM) (64-bit) ($98.98 @ DirectCanada)
Case Fan: Cougar Vortex 60.4 CFM 120mm Fan ($14.99 @ Memory Express)
Total: $1083.78
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-12-20 00:50 EST-0500

[Talys]

I originally had a smaller PSU but bumped it up in case I wanted to add another GPU down the road. Budget is very tight atm so there's not much room to add to the price right now. Alterations would have to come out pretty close to where it's at.

The cpu cooler is relatively inexpensive so I figured why not. It wasn't aimed at OC but I was considering an unlocked cpu just in case. Might have to squeeze that in though I know nothing about overclocking.

Thanks for all the input!

p.s. I already have the case so that's a done deal.

Edited by Talys, 19 December 2014 - 09:53 PM.

[Lord Letto]

so a $800-850 Budget or a $1000 Budget (considering that's what The build you came up with comes out to in the Canadian Market)

[Talys]

Yeah thanks for that tip, I hadn't realized that, which makes things even tighter. I looked at getting a lower powered PSU but The 80+ bronze EVGA 750 @ $74.99 isn't really any more than a lot of 650's and under. Not a big savings there.

Definitely trying to keep it under $1000. The closer to $850 the better but I don't want to sacrifice too much from where I'm at now with these parts. Boxing day sales may save the day! : )

Edited by Talys, 19 December 2014 - 10:19 PM.

[Lord Letto]

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i5-4690K 3.5GHz Quad-Core Processor ($239.99 @ Newegg Canada)
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler ($30.98 @ DirectCanada)
Thermal Compound: Arctic Silver Ceramique 2 Tri-Linear 25g Thermal Paste ($5.99 @ NCIX)
Motherboard: ASRock Z97M Anniversary Micro ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($97.50 @ Vuugo)
Memory: G.Skill Sniper Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1866 Memory ($83.94 @ DirectCanada)
Storage: Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($57.98 @ DirectCanada)
Video Card: EVGA GeForce GTX 750 Ti 2GB Video Card ($129.99 @ NCIX)
Case: Cooler Master N200 MicroATX Mid Tower Case ($37.95 @ Vuugo)
Power Supply: EVGA 750W 80+ Bronze Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply ($64.99 @ NCIX)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium SP1 (OEM) (64-bit) ($99.98 @ DirectCanada)
Total: $849.29
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-12-20 12:09 EST-0500