14 replies to this topic

[XxXAbsolutZeroXxX]

Never do it. Especially on assault.

The narrow pass acts as a chokepoint.

Fighting through the choke is like trying to take center on terra therma or persians attempting to breach thermopylae against 300 spartans.

Even if you successfully push through the chokepoint, they can retreat to their base.

If you press them you'll fight them and their base turrets at the same time.

I see people do it constantly. Almost as if they don't realize its suicidal or that base turrets lend a significant advantage equal to having additional mechs for support. Taking the antenna route from bottom is a suicide mission without the allahu ackbar.

Alpine is a great map. Its balanced. But if you take the antenna from bottom, you might as well eject. There are better ways to do things, if you think about it.

[Fishbulb333]

[Ghogiel]

Just take I9 from bottom. Especially on skirmish. The other team can only really get 4 mechs up the steep hill by the time the other team gets all the faster mechs (TBRs lights and mechs) from 2 lances there at the same time. Once there, the guys coming up the steep hill are going to be in the same spot every time ready to be CT'd by at least 2 mechs(and probably back off and choke the trail coming up for others, giving time to bring more mechs into i9), have no place to really manuver to, get arty smashed, and get push back into a deep valley kill zone.

[Xeraphale]

I'm not sure why almost all matches on alpine turn into a slug fest for the mountain. Surely there has to be a different tactic out there. Any team coming up the mountain is at a huge disadvantage cover-wise, so why do it at all?

I can think of two things to counter it more effectively:

1. All rotate counter-clockwise around the edge of the map and go for the mountain up the 12(?)-line
2. Wait it out at the base area and force the opposition to come down the mountain

I know both tactica require patience and/or cooperation but surely that's not beyond the realms of possiblity for people.

[DONTOR]

When I spawn lower I often request the team take the radio tower and hold it as a defensive position, making the enemy come to us forcing them to either ascend the hill or go through the choke point themselves. Taking the high ground usualy works.

If they went to the center hill area then you are free to move to the ridge next to their base, which also can work well.

[Barkem Squirrel]

Depending on the load out of the mechs the team going up the hill has there are two options.

Get the 80 + kph mechs up there as fast as you can and push the other team off the top.

get everyone together and go up the hill to h9 and 10 to try and push them off.


Why charge up the hill under their guns? Notice how you play when on top, peak and shoot, then withdrawal. Any fool that stays out for long is LRM bait. Force them to the sides and while 2 or 3 LRM boats are suppressing the I9 and I 10 area everyone else hunts down the other team that remains on the hill one by one.

Then the fast charge. If you can get six fast mechs up there fast do it. after one or two of the other team comes back down the assualts are less likely to go up there, but if they do you should have some back up then.

[LORD ORION]

Alpine is a horrible map that was made even more horrible with the introduction of the left/right starting positions.

Attacking the town from the top is an almost always fail because the enemy team can spot/snipe you from the mountain and there is no LRM cover.

Attacking from the bottom of the ridge is a sure fire way to have LRMs pissing on you the entire way.

Attacking up the middle of the hill is pretty much the only fighting chance.... and it's not easy. You need to play LRM peek-a-boo from the left mountain wall up the hill and keep the enemy surpressed enough for an eventual charge.

It also helps if a fast mech with ER-LL (like a RVN-3L) runs up the bottom of the map onto the far hill behind the main hill and spots/harasses defenders.

Edited by LORD ORION, 06 October 2014 - 07:35 AM.

[Mothykins]

Except, how you do with that is send a lance in, and then have the jump lights and mediums come over the hill when the opposing team moves to engage, with your first lance falling back and your assault lance moving up.

Assaults and lights/meds camp out at f6 to open with, and you let your heavies go e8 and then gogogo. Works pretty dang good.



(PS, using allahu ackbar like that's pretty not cool, IMHO? It's pretty much the equivalent of saying "Great god!" as an Christian/catholic/etc. Casual hate like that's pretty garbage. It was also the name of a National Anthem, and I'm pretty sure you wouldn't be cool with either of those things being used like that.)

[Sprouticus]

Cavale, on 06 October 2014 - 08:08 AM, said:

Except, how you do with that is send a lance in, and then have the jump lights and mediums come over the hill when the opposing team moves to engage, with your first lance falling back and your assault lance moving up.

Assaults and lights/meds camp out at f6 to open with, and you let your heavies go e8 and then gogogo. Works pretty dang good.



(PS, using allahu ackbar like that's pretty not cool, IMHO? It's pretty much the equivalent of saying "Great god!" as an Christian/catholic/etc. Casual hate like that's pretty garbage. It was also the name of a National Anthem, and I'm pretty sure you wouldn't be cool with either of those things being used like that.)

And almost impossible with PUGS.

Best bet if to rush the hill with fast movers, push them off the hill, and then hope your fatties get to the top to keep them off.



I do agree that the left/right config is terrible. The only real option for the left team is to take the radio tower and STAY there. And honestly, how many pugs will sit on the radio tower long enough for the team on the hill to do anything. In a group/team environment it works sometimes, but even then the temptation to snipe across the city is dangerous.

[Duncan Jr Fischer]

Counter-clockwise run has a risk of loosing the left lance, its slow Assault will never make it anyway.
And I've seen just as many successful Antennae rushes as failed attempts. Depends heavily on how people assess the situation and react. I saw matches (I have no groups, so I play only solo queue) where people regrouped, changed routes and flanked without any word, my own maneuvers sometimes worked out well too. Sometimes you manage to lure the defenders to you)
But most of the times you still need someone to climb to that highest hill at least to distract the support sitting there...)))

[Mechteric]

I Zeratul I, on 06 October 2014 - 05:29 AM, said:

Alpine is a great map. Its balanced. But if you take the antenna from bottom, you might as well eject. There are better ways to do things, if you think about it.

Can't disagree more, for Conquest its not quite as bad, but for Assault and Skirmish its pretty horrible. Essentially whoever can rush and keep the top of the hill wins more or less.

[UrsusMorologus]

Alpine would be way better if that mountain in the middle were deleted and replaced with a couple more small buttes

[Livewyr]

If you can get your group to organize..

From bottom: Make best speed up that gentle hill. When your faster mechs get there, they should stage (harassing fire) and perhaps scout a little bit to see the (usual) case of the enemy also taking said hill. Once your slower and more armed/armored team mates arrive, push up the hill as one. If you take a crap ton of damage you can fall back a little down the hill and still support with opportunistic fire. (Also applies to any of your team mates.) Your opponent on the other hand can only fall back so far, and (in my experience) typically jumps down the much steeper hill on their side.. That takes them out of the fight, if only temporarily. As you shove them off the cliff, your numbers advantage grows, and if they all go down the cliff, you have the high ground and they are already severely damaged. Do as you please from that point.

If you get up there, and it turns out they went to the tower, you can always go right back down the hill and hook a right to do the same thing up the gentle slope that goes behind the radio tower. (Not quite as effective, but the odds are more or less even at that point.)

If you get up there and they have actually seated themselves on the hill at the far side of the base:
Assault: Go right down the hill and get up against the cliff. (They can only engage you if they drop down.) Follow the cliff until you get close to their base, then throw everyone on it. They will either come down to deal with you (and usually 1-4 at a time to be focused) or they will watch their base get capped (literally) from beneath them. (Sometimes it is even more fun and half their team decides one possibility, and the other half decides the other.)
Skirmish: Also drop down the hill and hug their cliff, but make your way to southern end of the cliff and push up the hill. It works the same way as pushing up "Everest." (They stand and fight.. where the odds are even, or they get pushed off the cliff reducing their odds.

Key thing, your team must push as one.

[Never go Radio Tower]

[XxXAbsolutZeroXxX]

There's a subtle bit of cause and effect in play here some of you are failing to acknowledge.

1. Lots of people hate alpine and say its unbalanced.
2. They hate alpine and say its unbalanced because they always lose when they start from the bottom.
3. They always lose when they start from the bottom, because they always go radio antenna. And, radio antenna from the bottom is usually suicide.

Alpine is one of my favorite maps. There's plenty of open space. Its one of the few maps where you can snipe at long ranges outside of 1,000 meters and move to dodge your enemies sniping, without having to worry much about LRM's.

I've out sniped standing on the top of the mountain. And, I've out sniped from the bottom of the mountain. It doesn't make much of a difference if you're standing on the high ground or low ground.

Somewhere along the way, people have gotten it into their heads sniping from the high ground presents advantages. And that the only way to counter those advantages is to steer their entire team into a backalley chokepoint that is too narrow to give them much maneuverability. Where they can happily shoot each other in the back trying to maneuver and cluster closely together so the other team can drop super effective artillery strikes on their heads.

Why would anyone intentionally steer towards the backroads chokepoint of doom?

Why do people have trouble with the chokepoints leading to the inner rim of terra therma? What's bad about a narrow entryway that presents its own series of challenges and difficulties?

If the chokepoint in terra therma is a perfect place for a kill zone.

Why wouldn't the chokepoint in the back alleyway of alpine also not be a perfect kill zone?

Hmm. I wonder... Its rhetorical to ask, but somehow, someway, I want people to ask the question because it seems like madness to me to intentionally throw yourself into a chokepoint when there are better options available.

.

Edited by I Zeratul I, 06 October 2014 - 11:29 AM.

[Octantis]

The secret to Alpine is H11 and I11. Getting a Raven (with tag and ERLLs) and maybe a fast missile boat like a Timber Wolf you can really put the squeeze on the i9 defenders.

Conversely if the whole team goes to H11 and I11 to defend it is nearly unassailable. Enemies have to walk up single file and you can see them coming from a mile away.

The hard part is buy in. Getting your team to go along with the plan is nearly impossible.