32 replies to this topic

[GRiPSViGiL]

I know the Summoner is getting looked at for quirks and thought it would be great if one of those could be one that sped up projectile speed of the PPC. Seems with the JJ buff it will more than likely get that the PPC projectile speed buff could give it a role identity of a sniper of sorts.

[FupDup]

The "quirk" I want is at least one energy hardpoint in each side torso.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Cool. We will have a Summoner poptart...*sigh*

Edited by MeiSooHaityu, 07 October 2014 - 06:04 AM.

[FupDup]

MeiSooHaityu, on 07 October 2014 - 06:04 AM, said:

Cool. We will have a Summoner poptart...*sigh*

ERPPCs aren't good anymore though (unless boated with Goose Waffles). Those high mounts would be used on either LPL or ERLL (probably the latter due to tonnage).

[MeiSooHaityu]

We would see. I'm not as confident as you are.

Edited by MeiSooHaityu, 07 October 2014 - 06:10 AM.

[Tristan Winter]

FupDup, on 07 October 2014 - 05:55 AM, said:

The "quirk" I want is at least one energy hardpoint in each side torso.

Yeah, seriously. Isn't there a Summoner variant out there we can loot some omnipods from?

The Summoner makes absolutely no sense at all. There's a few decent builds you can run, but 90% of any combinations you can think of turn out to be absolute crap. Why? I'll tell you why.

The Summoner has less hardpoints than the Timber Wolf, and less free tonnage due to lack of Endo. Let me say it again. Fewer hardpoints, less free tonnage. It means you're forced to carry bigger weapons, and you don't have enough weight to do it. Doesn't that seem a bit counter-intuitive? Wouldn't it make sense to give mechs with less available weight... more hardpoints? So they could make up for their lack of free weight with the ability to boat several smaller weapons?

I don't really understand how PGI missed it. It's the same with the Warhawk. It has less free weight than the Dire Wolf.... and less hardpoints. How does that make sense on any level? Except to embrace the Timber Wolf and Dire Wolf as the clan mech master race?

Russ Bullock said in the Town Hall meeting that the Timber Wolf will always be best. Well, why does it have to be so much better than the Summoner? If the Summoner had more hardpoints for some extra medium lasers, it wouldn't be restricted to a small handful of builds. And why can't at least 1 of our two torsos with missile hardpoints have 2 or 3 hardpoints like, oh, pretty much every other heavy mech out there? It's another reason why you see so few Summoners that don't actually have the iconic missile launcher. You need the arms for energy and ballistic hardpoints, and it's pretty suboptimal to have a single LRM15 or SRM6 on your shoulder.

You know how many mechs have 2 or 3 missile hardpoints in either side torso? Not counting light mechs or hero mechs, it's... Centurion, Hunchback, Griffin, Kintaro, Shadowhawk, Wolverine, Stormcrow, Dragon, Quickdraw, Thunderbolt, Orion, Timber Wolf, Mad Dog, Awesome, Victor, Battlemaster, Stalker, Highlander, Atlas, Warhawk and Dire Wolf.

Bah! Moar hardpoints for the Summoner, and we may one day see less than 80% Timber Wolves among Clan heavies.

[The Amazing Atomic Spaniel]

At this point I just want the Summoner's ******* JJ to work.

[Gyrok]

Nicolai Kabrinsky, on 07 October 2014 - 06:12 AM, said:

Yeah, seriously. Isn't there a Summoner variant out there we can loot some omnipods from?

The Summoner makes absolutely no sense at all. There's a few decent builds you can run, but 90% of any combinations you can think of turn out to be absolute crap. Why? I'll tell you why.

The Summoner has less hardpoints than the Timber Wolf, and less free tonnage due to lack of Endo. Let me say it again. Fewer hardpoints, less free tonnage. It means you're forced to carry bigger weapons, and you don't have enough weight to do it. Doesn't that seem a bit counter-intuitive? Wouldn't it make sense to give mechs with less available weight... more hardpoints? So they could make up for their lack of free weight with the ability to boat several smaller weapons?

I don't really understand how PGI missed it. It's the same with the Warhawk. It has less free weight than the Dire Wolf.... and less hardpoints. How does that make sense on any level? Except to embrace the Timber Wolf and Dire Wolf as the clan mech master race?

Russ Bullock said in the Town Hall meeting that the Timber Wolf will always be best. Well, why does it have to be so much better than the Summoner? If the Summoner had more hardpoints for some extra medium lasers, it wouldn't be restricted to a small handful of builds. And why can't at least 1 of our two torsos with missile hardpoints have 2 or 3 hardpoints like, oh, pretty much every other heavy mech out there? It's another reason why you see so few Summoners that don't actually have the iconic missile launcher. You need the arms for energy and ballistic hardpoints, and it's pretty suboptimal to have a single LRM15 or SRM6 on your shoulder.

You know how many mechs have 2 or 3 missile hardpoints in either side torso? Not counting light mechs or hero mechs, it's... Centurion, Hunchback, Griffin, Kintaro, Shadowhawk, Wolverine, Stormcrow, Dragon, Quickdraw, Thunderbolt, Orion, Timber Wolf, Mad Dog, Awesome, Victor, Battlemaster, Stalker, Highlander, Atlas, Warhawk and Dire Wolf.

Bah! Moar hardpoints for the Summoner, and we may one day see less than 80% Timber Wolves among Clan heavies.

2 missile hardpoints in LT would be nice...

Run a pair of SRMs or lighter LRMs there...

[Vandul]

What, 15 gazillion internals isnt quirk enough?

[Mcgral18]

Nicolai Kabrinsky, on 07 October 2014 - 06:12 AM, said:

Russ Bullock said in the Town Hall meeting that the Timber Wolf will always be best. Well, why does it have to be so much better than the Summoner?

Night Gyr will have a run for first in 3052. 38 tons of pod space, 13(?) DHS, 4 JJs, 75 tons. 64/71 movement.


As for the Summoner, we could always fake those G side torsi into the game, 3M per ST.

10 missile hardpoints would be pretty darn unique, even if it's Jihad era.

[Foxwalker]

I wish I could remember where I read it, but somewhere Russ said that Summoners and Novas were going to get Jump Jet buffs that would give them more mobility and manerverability. Something to do with max Jets making more of a difference.

Edited by Foxwalker, 07 October 2014 - 07:12 AM.

[GRiPSViGiL]

Why would a poptart SMN be so bad? They really are built for it. For the most part poptarting is dead so why not?

[Creovex]

FupDup, on 07 October 2014 - 05:55 AM, said:

The "quirk" I want is at least one energy hardpoint in each side torso.

No thanks... I enjoy the non-symmetrical builds.... This is my CW mech if I stay Clan.

Foxwalker, on 07 October 2014 - 07:12 AM, said:

I wish I could remember where I read it, but somewhere Russ said that Summoners and Novas were going to get Jump Jet buffs that would give them more mobility and manerverability. Something to do with max Jets making more of a difference.

It was regarding the fact they were NOT removable that they were going to get a perk, not because they had max number.

[Tahribator]

Nicolai Kabrinsky, on 07 October 2014 - 06:12 AM, said:

Y
The Summoner has less hardpoints than the Timber Wolf, and less free tonnage due to lack of Endo. Let me say it again. Fewer hardpoints, less free tonnage. It means you're forced to carry bigger weapons, and you don't have enough weight to do it. Doesn't that seem a bit counter-intuitive? Wouldn't it make sense to give mechs with less available weight... more hardpoints? So they could make up for their lack of free weight with the ability to boat several smaller weapons?

You, sir, have nailed it spot on. It's not the locked jumpjets, but being forced to bring big-guns to be effective.

[Summon3r]

MeiSooHaityu, on 07 October 2014 - 06:04 AM, said:

Cool. We will have a Summoner poptart...*sigh*

oh that would devastate the game seeing as poptarting is so viable these days...

[Asyres]

Nicolai Kabrinsky, on 07 October 2014 - 06:12 AM, said:

Yeah, seriously. Isn't there a Summoner variant out there we can loot some omnipods from?

The M (introduced in 3051) would have 2E+1M in the left torso, and the HH (introduced in 3070) would have 1E in each side torso. I dunno that we'd get all of the M - it has identical arms to the Prime - but that side torso would be great. The HH side torsos would be okay, I guess, though the mech itself is well out of the timeline (Plasma Rifles, Heavy Lasers, a HAG).

[MeiSooHaityu]

Summon3r, on 07 October 2014 - 07:21 AM, said:

oh that would devastate the game seeing as poptarting is so viable these days...

It's not viable, mostly because of the lack luster JJs and slow PPCs projectile speed and heat. However, it was a stament I made based on what quirks the OP wanted...

GRiPSViGiL, on 07 October 2014 - 05:50 AM, said:

I know the Summoner is getting looked at for quirks and thought it would be great if one of those could be one that sped up projectile speed of the PPC. Seems with the JJ buff it will more than likely get that the PPC projectile speed buff could give it a role identity of a sniper of sorts.

If a Summoner had really good JJs and a PPC projectile speed buff...I think that would go a long way to negating the Poptart nerfs.

It wouldn't have a good keen A/C weapon to go with it, but a couple of PPCs should still be doable.

In anycase, I said...sure, we will see. I do admit that the Summoner needs some help and mobility seems like a good start.

Edited by MeiSooHaityu, 07 October 2014 - 07:29 AM.

[Lily from animove]

Nicolai Kabrinsky, on 07 October 2014 - 06:12 AM, said:

Yeah, seriously. Isn't there a Summoner variant out there we can loot some omnipods from?

The Summoner makes absolutely no sense at all. There's a few decent builds you can run, but 90% of any combinations you can think of turn out to be absolute crap. Why? I'll tell you why.

The Summoner has less hardpoints than the Timber Wolf, and less free tonnage due to lack of Endo. Let me say it again. Fewer hardpoints, less free tonnage. It means you're forced to carry bigger weapons, and you don't have enough weight to do it. Doesn't that seem a bit counter-intuitive? Wouldn't it make sense to give mechs with less available weight... more hardpoints? So they could make up for their lack of free weight with the ability to boat several smaller weapons?

I don't really understand how PGI missed it. It's the same with the Warhawk. It has less free weight than the Dire Wolf.... and less hardpoints. How does that make sense on any level? Except to embrace the Timber Wolf and Dire Wolf as the clan mech master race?

Russ Bullock said in the Town Hall meeting that the Timber Wolf will always be best. Well, why does it have to be so much better than the Summoner? If the Summoner had more hardpoints for some extra medium lasers, it wouldn't be restricted to a small handful of builds. And why can't at least 1 of our two torsos with missile hardpoints have 2 or 3 hardpoints like, oh, pretty much every other heavy mech out there? It's another reason why you see so few Summoners that don't actually have the iconic missile launcher. You need the arms for energy and ballistic hardpoints, and it's pretty suboptimal to have a single LRM15 or SRM6 on your shoulder.

You know how many mechs have 2 or 3 missile hardpoints in either side torso? Not counting light mechs or hero mechs, it's... Centurion, Hunchback, Griffin, Kintaro, Shadowhawk, Wolverine, Stormcrow, Dragon, Quickdraw, Thunderbolt, Orion, Timber Wolf, Mad Dog, Awesome, Victor, Battlemaster, Stalker, Highlander, Atlas, Warhawk and Dire Wolf.

Bah! Moar hardpoints for the Summoner, and we may one day see less than 80% Timber Wolves among Clan heavies.

similar issue the nova suffers from, just just the other way around.
Lots of hardpoints, but you can not make use of them, because you run too hot, if you slap heatsinks on it, no real use of the hardpoints. And you cna not slap any decent cool wepaons on it, because their tonnage + ammo is too much for the Nova. Both mechs suffer from not FF no ES combined with being lower in their tonnage class and having fixed JJ's. variability is low, and good playable loadouts are even less. This causes leveling 3 chassis to a very boring similar thing. The TW on the other side. You can mix or boat ANYTHING and nearly anything will turn out at least not useless. except maybe MG's + flamers only. But that is the point, while one mech gets the fun and usability the other lacks both.

unlocking JJ's on at leats 2 variants on the summner would at least give it a bit more tonnage for heavy guns.

[Tristan Winter]

GRiPSViGiL, on 07 October 2014 - 07:17 AM, said:

Why would a poptart SMN be so bad? They really are built for it. For the most part poptarting is dead so why not?

Because poptarting with Clan ballistics is a recipe for disaster. And you don't really have enough free weight to do something like dual PPC + AC10 anyway. You could do something like this:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...e0ccd3460ac8697

But the AC5 is going to spread damage all over the map.

Foxwalker, on 07 October 2014 - 07:12 AM, said:

I wish I could remember where I read it, but somewhere Russ said that Summoners and Novas were going to get Jump Jet buffs that would give them more mobility and manerverability. Something to do with max Jets making more of a difference.

Yep. And it's very cool, but it's not enough.

Mcgral18, on 07 October 2014 - 06:54 AM, said:

Night Gyr will have a run for first in 3052. 38 tons of pod space, 13(?) DHS, 4 JJs, 75 tons. 64/71 movement.
As for the Summoner, we could always fake those G side torsi into the game, 3M per ST.
10 missile hardpoints would be pretty darn unique, even if it's Jihad era.

It would certainly be unique, although I wonder if it wouldn't be stepping on the Mad Dog a bit much.

Vandul, on 07 October 2014 - 06:39 AM, said:

What, 15 gazillion internals isnt quirk enough?

I'm going to guess that it won't be. Because when you're brawling with a Timber Wolf that has twice your DPS, some extra internal strength won't be enough.

I'd be happy to be wrong about it, but... I have a feeling I'm still going to get blitzed by Timber's with SRM6's, LPLs, medium lasers and MGs.

[Mcgral18]

Nicolai Kabrinsky, on 07 October 2014 - 07:35 AM, said:

It would certainly be unique, although I wonder if it wouldn't be stepping on the Mad Dog a bit much.

It still gets more pod space and more useful hardpoints. Summoner gets JJs and more armour. Seems fair to me.